I've gotten a few games under my belt now as the rebels. I am starting to wonder if 3 naked speeder bikes is better than a fully equipped AT-ST. I'm finding I can focus fire the AT-ST pretty easily, it is usually dead the top of turn 2 or the bottom of turn 3.

Yes 3 speeders is a few more points but has 18 wounds, cant get damaged, nor focus fired.

What are your thoughts?

speeder bikes are (at the moment) the strongest empire unit.

strangely enough some people thinks that their "speeder 1" mandatory move is a malus. I think it is a bonus.

SO yes if I wanted to play in full tournament style, probably I'd get 3x bikes and more troops instead of the ATST.

Even though the AT ST firepower is Awesome (and the mortar as a really strong strategic value)

the ability to move speed 6 plus 2 base distances and shoot is nuts.

5 hours ago, Thornoo1 said:

I'm finding I can focus fire the AT-ST pretty easily, it is usually dead the top of turn 2 or the bottom of turn 3.

Sounds like you need more Line of Sight blocking terrain on your table.

Is hard to hide the ATST anywhere in a normal map. But anyway yes more 3D elements more fun into the game.

Speeders are definitely better but ATST wins on cool points alone

Besides, not like ATST is bad either, just not as good (wish i could say that about a lot of 40k units i love the aesthetics for)

Let's compare Fire Power

An AT-ST is about as much a 2 units of Speederbikes (4 bikes total)

One AT-ST attacks with 2 reds 2 blacks and 2 whites with impact 3

One speeder bike attacks with 1 red 1 black and 1 white with impact 1, so 4 speeder bikes attack with 4 reds, 4 blacks and 4 whites with impact 4. Granted this is in two attacks so the defenders can use their cover twice, but they can only use their dodge token once.

An AT-ST has 11 life almost as much as 4 bikes. But an AT-ST is armored, so it is way harder to hurt. Take into account that the speeder bikes will lose effectiveness as they get whittled down while the AT-ST won't (as much). The AT-ST's advantage is clearly in its survivability.

Of course the Speeder Bikes are way more maneuverable.

bikes have defensive surge and offensive surge. AT ST does not have both.

2 minutes ago, toffolone said:

bikes have defensive surge and offensive surge. AT ST does not have both.

So like I said, Bikes shoot harder, but I don't think a defensive surge is better than flat out armor.

Am I the only one that prefers the look of speeder bikes to that of an AT-ST? Not that the AT-ST doesn't look amazing, but speeder bikes are just so cool! I'm considering picking some up despite not currently being able to get into the game.

Armor is definitely better than a defensive surge. Its amusing seeing a nonimpact attack hit a vehicle with armor and do 0 damage because they didnt roll any crits, but did roll 4+ hits lol

48 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

Am I the only one that prefers the look of speeder bikes to that of an AT-ST? Not that the AT-ST doesn't look amazing, but speeder bikes are just so cool! I'm considering picking some up despite not currently being able to get into the game.

I really like them too! Very glad now that I chose to use my budget to pick up two core sets instead of a single core and a few boosters.

I think Vader + 4 Stormtroopers + 2 Speeders is a really cool looking army.

3 hours ago, Hrathen said:

One speeder bike attacks with 1 red 1 black and 1 white with impact 1, so 4 speeder bikes attack with 4 reds, 4 blacks and 4 whites with impact 4.

Hold up, i wouldnt that be effectively impact 2?
A unit is 2 bikes, their gun has impact 1. Im not seeing anything saying rules like that increase per model in the same unit.

@Vineheart01 The Impact 1 is for the weapon, which the unit has 2 of. If the Unit itself had impact 1 the text would be up with the rules for the unit. Instead the impact 1 is down by the weapon. I could be wrong, (no one has had these rules very long) but I am pretty sure that give the unit impact 1 per model.

While on one hand that makes sense, on the other theyre fixated at 2 models so thats just odd functionality.
i really need to do my proper combing of the rules. Generally when a game like this comes out i literally read the rules like a normal book, not hop around trying to figure things out that way with models on table. Its how i tend to notice a lot of smaller rule flops people tend to bypass.

I think theyre the only one that does that atm. Every other weapon is either specifically 1 model or the unit doesnt have multiples minis

Doing a proper rule combing and i think i found the answer @Hrathen

Pg 30 under Impact X
"If a unit performs an attack using multiple weapons that have the impact x keyword and those weapons contribute dice to the same attack pool, the x values of each impact x keyword are cumulative."

Assuming the ruling on "multiple weapons" is literal, as in 2 models using the same weapon is multiple weapons, they do indeed stack like you said. I'm not seeing anything saying yay or nay to that statement, closest is the example about impact stacking is indeed talking about 2 different weapons but examples are rarely capable of answering all questions.

6 troopers with impact grenades is Impact 6, quoting both emails and an image of Alex Davy laying around her somewhere. So 2 Speeder Bikes is Impact 2.

Yep. That works.

The total dice pool from two weapons with Impact 1 will have Impact 2.

Its is easy to underestimate the physcological impact of a giant chicken walker standing across the board fully upgraded

AT-ST hands down. With true line of sight, range is king. You have all hitpoints in one place, which gives even more staying power. You have the largest attack pool. Six bikes look frightening, but with Legion's activation rules, they have to come at you piecemeal. The Speeder Bike is a glass cannon. You don't want a glass cannon out in front a long way from home, you want in in the back and in cover. Overshooting the target on the other hand will not be that much of a problem as Speeder Bikes will rarely survive that long. The Charge of the Light Brigade...

10 minutes ago, Rumar said:

AT-ST hands down. With true line of sight, range is king. You have all hitpoints in one place, which gives even more staying power. You have the largest attack pool. Six bikes look frightening, but with Legion's activation rules, they have to come at you piecemeal. The Speeder Bike is a glass cannon. You don't want a glass cannon out in front a long way from home, you want in in the back and in cover. Overshooting the target on the other hand will not be that much of a problem as Speeder Bikes will rarely survive that long. The Charge of the Light Brigade...

More activations = huge advantage and speeders are really good at surviving or forcing tough targeting decisions.

1 minute ago, Hoffburger said:

More activations = huge advantage and speeders are really good at surviving or forcing tough targeting decisions.

More activations is nice, I give you that. But what tough targeting decisions? Speeder Bikes are always the A-Target. Killing a bike is the easiest way to diminish the fire power of your opponent and even infantry can do it. And as bikes will be most of the time ahead of the infantry, you will be hard pressed to use them to lure fire away from the troop that is taking an objective. Another disadvantage of bikes: how to you hold an objective with a compulsory move?

2 hours ago, Rumar said:

More activations is nice, I give you that. But what tough targeting decisions? Speeder Bikes are always the A-Target. Killing a bike is the easiest way to diminish the fire power of your opponent and even infantry can do it. And as bikes will be most of the time ahead of the infantry, you will be hard pressed to use them to lure fire away from the troop that is taking an objective. Another disadvantage of bikes: how to you hold an objective with a compulsory move?

You don't play hockey with a baseball bat. Speeders are flankers, not objective holders. You force the opponent to either kill the speeders flanking them or deal with your troops that are pushing the objectives. If they aren't shooting your troops, you're probably winning.

18 minutes ago, Hoffburger said:

Speeders are flankers, not objective holders.

Speeders have a flank. Objective holders have not. And as bikes have compulsory movement, you can't keep them abreast the objective holders. So the enemy will either shoot the bikes, while walking to the objective, or shoot the objective holders, while the bikes overshoot.

Technically you could compulsory move a 90 degree angle, pivot 90 degrees, then move again back to the exact same spot if needed.