21 minutes ago, Hedgehobbit said:

The problem with using the "model's eye" viewpoint to determine cover is that units are firing as a group and not model to model. A target model more than 50% obscured from one attacking model might be completely clear to another attacking model. The attacking unit leader is considered to be the center of mass for the firing unit, thus it makes sense to use his base as a rough guideline but not to use his viewpoint entirely to determine the cover status of the entire target unit.

Hence, target models that are not visible at all to the attacking unit leader can still be shot and killed if at least one attacking model can see ANY part of the target model.

The unit leader is used to determine two things:

Range to a defender

Cover of of a defender.

The only reason you would need to check the LOS from other models then the unit leader is if there is a chance some of them may not have LOS at all to the defender in which case they cannot contribute their attack dice to the attackpool. It has no impact on the cover status of a defender, as above cover is only based on the LOS of the unit leader of the attacker.

this is similar to how in the defending unit, any models who are completely out of sight to ALL attacking models cannot be assigned wounds from the attack.

On 3/25/2018 at 1:21 AM, UnitOmega said:

Not awkward at all. Saber Throw says "perform a ranged attack". Deflect says "if it’s a ranged attack, the attacker suffers 1 wound for each Surge rolled".

I think they meant "thematically awkward". I'd just narrate it as Luke wrests control of the thrown saber away to throw it back.

Dumb question, how do you handle it when, say a T-47 lands on a barricade? Do you mark the terrain and remove it? Perch the speeder on the barricade so it falls over when you hit the table? Stop the speeder short? If you remove the terrain, how do you handle cover and LoS?

36 minutes ago, Viktor Tanek said:

Dumb question, how do you handle it when, say a T-47 lands on a barricade? Do you mark the terrain and remove it? Perch the speeder on the barricade so it falls over when you hit the table? Stop the speeder short? If you remove the terrain, how do you handle cover and LoS?

No idea. This is will be answered in the coming update for the RRG, and I expect an FAQ. I know it was asked to Alex Davy at Adepticon, as well as "If my T-47 overlaps an AT-ST, what happens?"

For right now, I played it by removing the terrain, placing the speeder, then putting the terrain on the base so we know where it is.

A bigger issue for me is huge terrain pieces. I compulsory moved my speeder over a big hill, and ended with the tip overlapping the terrain. My speeder was tilted and I couldn't place it flat, and I think the rules say if you can't lay a mini flat, it can't move there, but Speeder 2 allows you to move over any terrain.

It's my biggest gripe with the rules right now. I've no idea how to resolve it, and it allows for dumb terrain interactions.

I'm hoping we get asked to mark the position of the base in such situations, and then hold the model there if we need a height reference for line of sight.

And the only time youre allowed to comp move slower than max speed is if youre going off the board, but you dont wanna do that becaus eyou also sufer damage equal to your max speed if this happens.

Since premeasuring is all over in this game, i would wager if a model is tilted and cant be placed, try again at a different angle/speed.

Keep in mind that compulsory moves get to ignore some of the restrictions about where you end up so long as you follow it up with another move. I don't have the rules to hand to quite in more detail, but that should help in some of these situations.

Not seeing anything about being required to follow it up with another move, but the only restriction comp moves ignore is overlapping unengaged troops. It doesnt even mention what happens if it overlaps engaged troops or a vehicle by accident.
Which is why i suggest for now just backing up and choosing a different route if you end up in an illegal landing spot. I cant find any rules to help in such a situation.

1 minute ago, Vineheart01 said:

Not seeing anything about being required to follow it up with another move, but the only restriction comp moves ignore is overlapping unengaged troops. It doesnt even mention what happens if it overlaps engaged troops or a vehicle by accident.
Which is why i suggest for now just backing up and choosing a different route if you end up in an illegal landing spot. I cant find any rules to help in such a situation.

You're allowed to run over things with a Compulsory move. It's not well defined in that section though. You treat it as a normal vehicle overlap situation, so the mini must be placed in cohesion and the unit gains a Suppression.

With Speeder 2, nearly everything will be a legal move. It can fly anywhere. Again, the rules are unclear on how to deal with awkward situations. Technically, you can mark the terrain and remove it. That's easy to do it you have a block structure because it blocks all LOS. But if you have a piece that does not block LOS all around it, you still need it to determine LOS and cover.

Literally the only thing comp move mentions thats not normally allowed is "can displace trooper units"
Displace mentions you cant displace engaged minis

Neither say anything about what happens if the comp move overlaps something you cant overlap (vehicle, engaged troops)

I suggest we all post a rules question email to ffg. This has no clear answer since it doesnt even MENTION vehicles for overlapping in a comp move, tilted landing, or engaged troopers. Least not that im seeing, both displace/comp move rules are pretty short. Possible its in some other random paragraph, but as of right now i dont see it.

7 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Literally the only thing comp move mentions thats not normally allowed is "can displace trooper units"
Displace mentions you cant displace engaged minis

Neither say anything about what happens if the comp move overlaps something you cant overlap (vehicle, engaged troops)

I suggest we all post a rules question email to ffg. This has no clear answer since it doesnt even MENTION vehicles for overlapping in a comp move, tilted landing, or engaged troopers. Least not that im seeing, both displace/comp move rules are pretty short. Possible its in some other random paragraph, but as of right now i dont see it.

I agree. The rules don't address this and it's a big problem.

Somewhat related:

Quote

pg18 RRG (Climb and Clamber) states:

When a unit climbs or clambers, its minis must be placed such that each mini’s base is fully on a flat surface ; a mini’s base cannot overhang a ledge . If there is not room for a unit leader’s base on the surface that the unit is climbing or clambering to, or if any mini’s base cannot be fully on a flat surface and maintain cohesion, that unit cannot perform that climb or clamber action.

This has nothing to do with vehicles moving over terrain but it may be used to help resolve these situations until the rules are updated.

That has more to do with normal movement, which is variable and the player can just slow down to solve the problem.

Comp moves must be full speed, and if they cant go full speed they suffer damage equal to their max speed. The two main issues is since its a comp move, do i get to back up if i end up in an illegal position and just go a different direction, only suffering damage if NOWHERE i can go full speed, or did i just damage myself because the route i chose first had my nose clip a cliff about 1/2" tall?

Its not so much that we know we cant do it, its what happens with a comp move if we end up that way thats the question.

Hi there,

do speederbikes have impact 2, because there are 2 of them?

2 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

And the only time youre allowed to comp move slower than max speed is if youre going off the board, but you dont wanna do that becaus eyou also sufer damage equal to your max speed if this happens.

Since premeasuring is all over in this game, i would wager if a model is tilted and cant be placed, try again at a different angle/speed.

"And the only time youre allowed to comp move slower than max speed is if youre going off the board"

I'm afraid this isn't correct the RRG p. 21 states:

"If the unit leader ends this movement with any part of it's base outside the battlefield, the unit is defeated."

The impossible would be that it hits something along it's path during a compulsory move, the end of that battlefield doesn't restrict movement, it is not impassable terrain.

2 minutes ago, Alathazal said:

"And the only time youre allowed to comp move slower than max speed is if youre going off the board"

I'm afraid this isn't correct the RRG p. 21 states:

"If the unit leader ends this movement with any part of it's base outside the battlefield, the unit is defeated."

The impossible would be that it hits something along it's path during a compulsory move, the end of that battlefield doesn't restrict movement, it is not impassable terrain.

Right before that it says you can do a partial move to stay on the board.

"To perform a compulsory move, the unit performs a full move at its maximum speed. If it cannot do so, or if a full move would cause any part of the unit leader’s base to be outside the battlefield, it can perform a partial move instead, ending its movement as far along the movement template as possible. If the unit performs a partial movement in this way, the unit suffers a number of wounds equal to its maximum speed. If the unit leader ends this movement with any part of its base outside of the battlefield, the unit is defeated."

7 hours ago, TzazikiMann said:

Hi there,

do speederbikes have impact 2, because there are 2 of them?

Yes, each weapon has Impact 1, so they add together, provided both bikes are shooting the same target.

EDIT

As mentioned below, if both bikes are using their main gun, they must shoot at the same target.

And can you really shoot 2 different targets with one speederbike unit?

Just now, TzazikiMann said:

And can you really shoot 2 different targets with one speederbike unit?

Only if you use two different weapons. One target with the cannon, the other with the hold-out blaster.

4 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

Literally the only thing comp move mentions thats not normally allowed is "can displace trooper units"
Displace mentions you cant displace engaged minis

Neither say anything about what happens if the comp move overlaps something you cant overlap (vehicle, engaged troops)

I suggest we all post a rules question email to ffg. This has no clear answer since it doesnt even MENTION vehicles for overlapping in a comp move, tilted landing, or engaged troopers. Least not that im seeing, both displace/comp move rules are pretty short. Possible its in some other random paragraph, but as of right now i dont see it.

5 hours ago, Viktor Tanek said:

Dumb question, how do you handle it when, say a T-47 lands on a barricade? Do you mark the terrain and remove it? Perch the speeder on the barricade so it falls over when you hit the table? Stop the speeder short? If you remove the terrain, how do you handle cover and LoS?

My FLGS got a response from Alex Davy.

You are not allowed to place a Speeder if you cant fit your base on it. So if you land on a barricade, you do not pick it up and mark it. You just put the model on the closer side. This fulfills the compulsory move, so you don't take damage from crashing.

Same goes for larger pieces. Need to be able to place the mini without it falling over, so I'd guess you can put it on a slope if the mini lies flat.

16 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

My FLGS got a response from Alex Davy.

You are not allowed to place a Speeder if you cant fit your base on it. So if you land on a barricade, you do not pick it up and mark it. You just put the model on the closer side. This fulfills the compulsory move, so you don't take damage from crashing.

Same goes for larger pieces. Need to be able to place the mini without it falling over, so I'd guess you can put it on a slope if the mini lies flat.

So, that seems to conflict with the part where you can't do a full compulsory move and therefore need to take damage equal to your speed.

*Edit: I guess that's where Speeder X comes in......

14 minutes ago, Viktor Tanek said:

So, that seems to conflict with the part where you can't do a full compulsory move and therefore need to take damage equal to your speed.

*Edit: I guess that's where Speeder X comes in......

I would guess Speeder is considered if you run into something you can't fly over. So if a air speeder runs into a height 3 building. I never thought of it as not completing a comp move cuz you run over a barricade. That makes no sense thematically, but it reads that way in the RRG.

It's the best answer I have right now, so we will need to wait until an update and FAQ. I prefer what Alex said over the RRG anyway because it doesn't disrupt the game.

20 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I would guess Speeder is considered if you run into something you can't fly over. So if a air speeder runs into a height 3 building. I never thought of it as not completing a comp move cuz you run over a barricade. That makes no sense thematically, but it reads that way in the RRG.

It's the best answer I have right now, so we will need to wait until an update and FAQ. I prefer what Alex said over the RRG anyway because it doesn't disrupt the game.

That it makes no sense was why I was struggling with a freaking barricade doing 3 hull to an air speeder. But the rules seemed in conflict.

5 minutes ago, Viktor Tanek said:

That it makes no sense was why I was struggling with a freaking barricade doing 3 hull to an air speeder. But the rules seemed in conflict.

I agree. The section is poorly written.

6 hours ago, Viktor Tanek said:

Right before that it says you can do a partial move to stay on the board.

"To perform a compulsory move, the unit performs a full move at its maximum speed. If it cannot do so, or if a full move would cause any part of the unit leader’s base to be outside the battlefield, it can perform a partial move instead, ending its movement as far along the movement template as possible. If the unit performs a partial movement in this way, the unit suffers a number of wounds equal to its maximum speed. If the unit leader ends this movement with any part of its base outside of the battlefield, the unit is defeated."

My copy of the RRG seems to be missing the bit about being allowed to end its movement early?