So got in a few reps over the weekend/past week, finally trying giving the Uthuk a truly fair shake with a competent list. Definitely still need more data, by no means am I ready to draw any definitive conclusions, but these are my initial impressions for Uthuk vs both Latari and Daqan lists.

Played through all the currently active tournament deployments and objectives at least once or twice in a variety of combinations. The lists used are as follows:

Daqan: 200pts

1x1 Kari Wraithstalker w/ Wraithstep 33pts

1x1 Lord Hawthorne 34 pts

3x2 Spearmen w/ Lance Corporal and Shield Wall 51pts

3x2 Oathsworn Cavalry 46pts

4x1 Deepwood Archers w/ Tempered Steel and Close Quarters Targeting 36pts

Uthuk: 199pts

1x1 Ravos w/ Viscera Goblet and Insatiable Hunger 50pts

3x3 Beserkers w/ Cacophony Reaver, Wind Rune, Warsprinter, and Aggressive Shrieker 70pts

2x2 Flesh Rippers w/ Moment of Inspiration 43pts

1x1 Spined Threshers 18pts

1x1 Spined Threshers 18pts

Latari: 199pts

1x1 Aliana w/ Malcornes Bequest, Ambush Predator 42pts

3x2 Deepwood Archers w/ Maegan Cyndewin, Fire Rune, Support Scion, Tactical Starling, CQT 68pts

2x1 Deepwood Archers w/ Fire Rune, CQT 27pts

2x3 Leonx Riders w/ Raven Tabards, Metered March, Column Tactics

1x1 Aymhelin Scion

Latari: This list currently has a few points of filler until Darnati release (metered march, tactical starling) at which point it'll gain a 3x2 Darnati and a 1x1 Scion, lose the 2x1 of archers and embed Aliana.

Only played one match including the Latari, it was a total rout against the Latari. Definitely could have been improvement on the Latari's ability to dodge, however this list is designed around generating unstable runes and maximizing fire rune and Maegan's ability for high damage while the enemy closes. Unfortunately the Uthuk list in question also profits heavily from red runes and was able to close rapidly, soaking what damage the Latari were able to put out and then overpowering the melee fight. I think Latari lists trying to dodge without wind rune will not be putting out enough damage to be relevant, so wind rune is definitely worth the experiment I think. Aliana was decimated by Ravos proximity. 1x Scion blocker really isn't enough to make a decided difference. The archers with Maegan and fire rune were putting out good damage, just not in large enough quantities to deal with Uthuk high health before melee contact, at which point archers just start melting. The Leonx could have been better deployed, but from what I've seen so far their lack of sustained combat power is a huge liability; even when they get the favorable engagement (charge/flank, etc), if they are fighting a fairly "equal" unit they lose that melee over the course of 2/3 turns, making securing the charge and following up with a init 3 march/shift to disengage virtually essential, which is both optimistic and telegraphing. Needs more experimentation.

Daqan: This list has been my bread and butter for a few months now, and has been largely unbeatable against most lists I've seen, not to say that it hasn't been outplayed on more than one occasion. It definitely stuggled against the Uthuk. Got in 2/3 reps against the above Uthuk list, and while the Daqan kept it close, they were fighting uphill the entire time and lost 2 of the 3, with the one win being a 6-5. I think the biggest downfall for the Daqan in these matches was not getting the favorable matchups they wanted against the Uthuk. Specifically the 3x2 Cav were utterly outclassed and destroyed by the Berserkers in every game. Lack of maneuverability and not being able to outcharge the berserkers meant the oathsworn needed to be somewhere else, and they just weren't, so maybe that would have completely turned the tide of the battle. Similarly the Flesh Rippers regularly attacked the Spearmen, and when adding in a Thresher or two as well into the fray the Spearmen could not withstand them long term. Hawthorne's rallying ability was limited by opening panic tokens, and early round unit rallies meant the Uthuk dictated the battlefield and capitalized objectives like supply raid. Hawthorne needed to engage to get more offense into the fight, but in retrospect I think he should have stayed remained attached to the Archers to guarantee tempered steel every turn for the same damage output. Kari could rarely escape Ravos, and while she got in good damage, between his surge and end of turn effect, any hero nearby is on a severe timer to burn him down.

Looking at dropping Wraithstep and CQT for Raven Tabards on the Cav, and maybe Marching Corn on the Spearmen. Keep Hawthorne super close to defend the Archers and proc TS. Might make all the difference and not really sacrifice the rest of the list's strengths.

Uthuk: Ravos right now is the best anti-hero right now I think, hands down. Was very impressed by the 3x3 Berserker with warsprinter and aggressive; they were typically able to bide their time if unstable runes weren't showing, but they did fairly regularly and being able to pull off a 5-7speed charge or a reform and 1-2/4 charge was huge. Sniping those figures out seems the easiest solution, but not when their at max range. Rippers did fairly solid, nothing incredible, but solid. Single Threshers worked great as flex units and for early deployment to try and force opponent key units on the table. Definitely seemed like a fairly "low ceiling" list. It's also compounded by the fact that most objectives reward movement/aggression, and Uthuk (at least this list) LOVES doing that. Interested to see how Kethra will strengthen/weaken/change lists, and definitely considering adding in some more Spined Threshers, probably at the expense of Flesh Rippers.

Not unbeatable, but I definitely see where people are coming from about Uthuk currently being very strong. I think the high health and propensity toward aggressive movement for the entire army are what are currently making the difference, and that objectives strongly support that right now. Plan on a lot more match ups, just my initial thoughts.

10 hours ago, jcshep19 said:

Not unbeatable, but I definitely see where people are coming from about Uthuk currently being very strong. I think the high health and propensity toward aggressive movement for the entire army are what are currently making the difference, and that objectives strongly support that right now. Plan on a lot more match ups, just my initial thoughts.

Interesting. I have been playing more cautiously with my Uthuk (I think) which may explain my struggle to do well with them ... as well as general lack of table time.

1 hour ago, Budgernaut said:

Interesting. I have been playing more cautiously with my Uthuk (I think) which may explain my struggle to do well with them ... as well as general lack of table time.

When we play, my Uthuk are nearly always fighting in my opponent’s half of the board. So aggresive for certain, but I do have to temper it a bit so I can get everything on target in the same-ish window.

Berserkers-combat on turn 2

Threshers-combat on turn 2 if they can reach

Ravos-inflicting wound in enemy end of turn 1, combat turn 2,

Rippers-flank charges on turn 3. Would be 2 if I could do a bank charge.

Even with Aggresive Shrieker/Warsprinter, I don’t typically want to get not combat turn 1 as they get slaughtered by archers turn 2 and have no support.

EDIT: Maybe turn 1 would be the goal if I had some absurd double BerserkerStar build where both had aggresive/Warsprinter.

Thanks for the analysis! I've still only played two games against Uthuk, and needless to say the habits I've learned from having a Waiqar opponent are not a great match!

15 hours ago, jcshep19 said:

Daqan: 200pts

1x1 Kari Wraithstalker w/ Wraithstep 33pts

1x1 Lord Hawthorne 34 pts

3x2 Spearmen w/ Lance Corporal and Shield Wall 51pts

3x2 Oathsworn Cavalry 46pts

4x1 Deepwood Archers w/ Tempered Steel and Close Quarters Targeting 36pts

Uthuk: 199pts

1x1 Ravos w/ Viscera Goblet and Insatiable Hunger 50pts

3x3 Beserkers w/ Cacophony Reaver, Wind Rune, Warsprinter, and Aggressive Shrieker 70pts

2x2 Flesh Rippers w/ Moment of Inspiration 43pts

1x1 Spined Threshers 18pts

1x1 Spined Threshers 18pts

Couple questions here:

Do you find Shield Wall gives you enough value consistently to be worth the points? Especially in this list, it's competing directly with Fortuna's on Kari, Might of Daqan on Hawthorne, Tempered Steel or Moment of Inspiration on the Cav, all stuff that's pretty guaranteed value. Maybe it's my very limited meta, but I find precious Inspiration being spent on the Lance Corporal, and Shield Wall mostly saving a couple Spearmen and then staying exhausted.

Why no Frontline Spined Thresher? It's such a nice force multiplier.

@Bhelliom shield wall: usually yes, though not in these games. Typically even against larger units some initial ranged fire and then an early lance corporal attack usually reduces the enemy enough for shield wall to work, but against the Uthuk the strain to ready cards was very real. I really do like FDice on kari, and have considered that exact exchange (shieldwall + Wraith for FDice) but in light of these last few games I'm leaning more toward giving the Cav a bit more boost, like raven tabards and Forged in Battle when it releases. But yes, shield wall is something I am CONSIDERING getting rid of for this army, though it has definitely paid for itself on more than one occasion.

No frontline Thresher partially because of supplies, needing the most amount of points, and because stand alone threshers are so **** strong that I like running them as flex units. once the expansion releases i might give frontline a whirl.

@Church14 yeah definitely dont usually charge turn 1 unless a huge opening presents itself, but can usually get everything in optimal placement turn 1, then charge by 2 or 3. What separates that statement from every other army is how well ALL the Uthuk units can charge at the same time like this, not piecemeal or where other units are having to delay for slower units to get in position in order to mass fires against the enemy.

Hm, using Shield Wall in the early turns of combat to help cover for a dialed in hit from Lance Corporal hadn't occurred to me, maybe I'll give it a go. I've been using Raven Pennon Bearer, and the flexibility with it and Lance Corp is pretty interesting.

I love Forged in Battle on the 3x2 cav, but it's probably not great against Uthuk.