I have been going through recent tournament results on the X-wing list juggler and I can hardly find a decently sized tournament that was won by a scum list. Is this just typical of the X-wing power cycle or is it slightly worse this time? Scum have been hit awfully hard with the nerf hammer recently...
Do Scum win any big tournies these days?
2 minutes ago, Sixter said:I have been going through recent tournament results on the X-wing list juggler and I can hardly find a decently sized tournament that was won by a scum list. Is this just typical of the X-wing power cycle or is it slightly worse this time? Scum have been hit awfully hard with the nerf hammer recently...
And imperials we're struggling before them and rebels before that, it's the three spokes of the tire sort of deal, one is always going to be nearer to the top and one nearer to the bottom.
They aren't in a great spot now but they will have their moment in the sun once more
4 Jumpmasters just won a regional.
Las Vegas Regionals ... 4 Jumpmasters.
Just now, Innese said:4 Jumpmasters just won a regional.
It's done well at another one too (earlier) though I'm not sure if it's the same, is the newer winner using 4 with courier and trick shot?
The Scum are definitely the underdog currently, though not as bad as the big dips Imps and Rebels had previously.
No. Scum is still probably the 2nd best faction in the game.
Its just that Rebel & Scum players bounce back and forth between using whatever the latest dominate Turret/Bomb/Defense/High Hit Point list is from either faction.
Just so happens to be that Rebels are a bit ahead on that archetype power curve now thanks to the Sheathipede being a better version of Pre-Nerf Biggs.
12 minutes ago, Innese said:4 Jumpmasters just won a regional.
So wait, the JumpMaster was nerfed twice and can still win a regional?
an assortment of Scum ships won Colorado regional!
Karthakk Pirate (Scurrg H-6 Bomber) + Tactician + Long-Range Scanners
Thweek (StarViper) + StarViper Mk.II + Autothrusters
Inaldra (M3-A Interceptor) + Crack Shot + Pulsed Ray Shield + Ion Cannon
Cartel Brute (M12-L Kimogila Fighter) + Long-Range Scanners
(98)
honestly, nerf hammer or not Scum is still working with about the same range of options as other factions, i.e most stuff will never see primetime but it's got a few things to crutch on
goddamn jumps being one of them. You just can't keep a good jump down, and I still would not be the least bit surprised if Dengar came out of left field to win worlds a third time in a row
21 minutes ago, JediPartisan said:So wait, the JumpMaster was nerfed twice and can still win a regional?
Which is actually a good thing.
idk if the jumpmaster was nerfed twice...going by memory
1.) deadeye used to trigger r4 aggromech, acquiring a TL when you spent a focus to fire plasma torps
2.) Zuckuss nerfed, a one-two punch that ended dengaroo
3.) Manaroo nerfed, the knockout blow to dengaroo
4.) Mindlink nerfed, it was the new deadeye for scouts
5.) FFG finally takes a hatchet to the upgrade bar
and then hey, it's still a **** fine ship!
a bit astounding when you look back and realize the ship that FFG initially thought was acceptable to release
2 hours ago, JediPartisan said:So wait, the JumpMaster was nerfed twice and can still win a regional?
more like 5
I think the reign of terror that was Nym and the Jumpmaster before that hasn't completely left everybody's system. #toosoon.
Scum was second in michigan with Nym, Torani, Jostero. I remeber a thweek and three vipers doing well recently as well.
Scum isnt hurting, think they just arent O.P. like rebels at the moment. You could almost bring attanni back to normal since Fenn shuts down all that jazz anyhoo.
2 hours ago, Innese said:4 Jumpmasters just won a regional.
That’s a lot of health to chew through. Even they are only 2 die turrets, throw enough pew pew at something, some of it’s going to stick.
On the krayt podcast I remember Travis saying scum had a 13% rate at making the cut. I think that's the worst any faction has ever performed so I don't really understand why a few people in here are saying scum is fine.
4 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:That’s a lot of health to chew through. Even they are only 2 die turrets, throw enough pew pew at something, some of it’s going to stick.
Especially to Ghosts, Decis, and 1 agility Nyms.
2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:idk if the jumpmaster was nerfed twice...going by memory
1.) deadeye used to trigger r4 aggromech, acquiring a TL when you spent a focus to fire plasma torps
2.) Zuckuss nerfed, a one-two punch that ended dengaroo
3.) Manaroo nerfed, the knockout blow to dengaroo
4.) Mindlink nerfed, it was the new deadeye for scouts
5.) FFG finally takes a hatchet to the upgrade bar
and then hey, it's still a **** fine ship!
a bit astounding when you look back and realize the ship that FFG initially thought was acceptable to release
It was acceptable to sell, I know a lot of people that bought 3 of them.
1 hour ago, SnooSnarry said:On the krayt podcast I remember Travis saying scum had a 13% rate at making the cut. I think that's the worst any faction has ever performed so I don't really understand why a few people in here are saying scum is fine.
This is what puzzles me too. When Rebels or Imperials were in similar situations everyone was up in arms, now they're just 'whatever', even though it's likely the worst case of a faction underperforming since Rebels just after Jumpmaster release.
Now this is obviously anecdotal and of no relevance whatsoever to the big picture, but still quite sad: since the last round of nerfs I haven't been part of any game that Scum won. I used to run Scum almost exclusively since I started playing so I tried to make it work after the last round of nerfs. I lost every single game (my opponents were running top meta squads to help me test). After I switched to Rebels several people tried to prove me I was overreacting and Scum was fine. They too lost every single game against me running Rebels.
24 minutes ago, LordBlades said:This is what puzzles me too. When Rebels or Imperials were in similar situations everyone was up in arms, now they're just 'whatever', even though it's likely the worst case of a faction underperforming since Rebels just after Jumpmaster release.
Now this is obviously anecdotal and of no relevance whatsoever to the big picture, but still quite sad: since the last round of nerfs I haven't been part of any game that Scum won. I used to run Scum almost exclusively since I started playing so I tried to make it work after the last round of nerfs. I lost every single game (my opponents were running top meta squads to help me test). After I switched to Rebels several people tried to prove me I was overreacting and Scum was fine. They too lost every single game against me running Rebels.
I guess I say it as not as bad as say the Imp slump last summer as I'm hear of more Scum wins currently than Imp wins back then. However, that is still not good. There will always be an underdog in this game, but the distance between it and the other two should be less severe.
Also.
The reason why Imperials couldn't get in, is because they had NOTHING that was worth playing. They were outclassed in most metrics.
Scum on the other hand, suffers because the rebels are broken. It's not that Scum doesn't have VERY STRONG options. It has many. Far better than Imps had back then.
As we can see, Jumpmasters are still a force to be reckoned with. The Shadowcaster is really good. Nym and the Scurrg is still ludicrously efficient, even if the insta-win combo doesn't work anymore.
What I have personally experienced, is Scum players switching to Rebels en masse.
This is why you don't trust hired guns. Their loyalties lie with the all-time winners.
3 hours ago, wurms said:Scum isnt hurting, think they just arent O.P. like rebels at the moment. You could almost bring attanni back to normal since Fenn shuts down all that jazz anyhoo.
He doesn't shut down Attanni. He mitigates it somewhat. Double focused ships are a good counter to Fenn, just as expertise is. Hot-cop can only strip one focus and his ability can only affect one ship.
Scum are unmistakably weaker now, but they were brutally dominant for a long time. So it's fair, IMO. Besides, I like playing the weaker faction, so I've really been enjoying putting scum on the table again.
7 hours ago, JediPartisan said:So wait, the JumpMaster was nerfed twice and can still win a regional?
6 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:idk if the jumpmaster was nerfed twice...going by memory
1.) deadeye used to trigger r4 aggromech, acquiring a TL when you spent a focus to fire plasma torps
2.) Zuckuss nerfed, a one-two punch that ended dengaroo
3.) Manaroo nerfed, the knockout blow to dengaroo
4.) Mindlink nerfed, it was the new deadeye for scouts
5.) FFG finally takes a hatchet to the upgrade bar
Expanding on Fickle's analysis:
The JM5K was nerfed at least 7 times:
1. Indirect FAQ Attack Timing chart nerfs R4 Agromech to slightly decreases the efficiency of the triple scout build.
2. Direct Deadeye nerf ruins the triple scout build altogether, taking it from the strongest list in the history of the game to just amazing.
3. Direct Zuckuss nerf breaks Dengar's anti-ace power.
4. DirectManaroo nerf occurs alongside Zuckuss nerf to break the other half of Dengaroo's synergy.
5. Direct Attanni nerfed alongside Zuckuss and Manaroo to limit the efficiency of triple-scum builds.
6. Direct The JM5K was 'nerfed into oblivion' by losing three of its upgrade slots.
7. Indirect Asajj (Dengar's remaining great partner) is pretty badly nerfed by the rise of Ghost/Fenn, which stresses her or Dengar and strips focus tokens to boot, then TLTs them to death. Plus, you know, harpoons are now a thing.
Despite all this, the JM5K is stilll easily the most efficient upgrade-less ship in the game, and Dengar remains phenomenal, if a bit fragile in the current meta.
Scum have been indisputably dominant in the game from wave 8 through to January this year with the genius/trajectory simulator combo, which slowed down NyManda just enough for Ghost/Fenn to overtake it. Even now, the best answers to Ghost/Fenn (aside from Harpoon GUNBOATS) is still scum lists.
I anticipate the Solo anthology movie to be yet another Scum resurgence.
5 hours ago, SnooSnarry said:On the krayt podcast I remember Travis saying scum had a 13% rate at making the cut. I think that's the worst any faction has ever performed so I don't really understand why a few people in here are saying scum is fine.
Is that 13% of all scum lists in a tournament? Or is it that 13% of the cut is made up by scum? If the latter is true, one could argue that it's not that bad seeing as there are less scum lists in play at a tournament than Imps/Rebels.