Those sound like terrible fleets, Dem.

I don’t think the fleets themsekves are terrible. But the extremely obvious archetype viability is really not good. Even other normally positive posters have noted it. Having 120 squads or more wins 75% of the time (and has an increasing rate of success through top 8 and 4). (Also the taken rate of mass squads is something like 30% only. It’s double the average expected win rate) Large ships plus flotillas is the name of the day with MSUbeing much more difficult and not showing up much.

2 hours ago, Fanfan said:

I think I like the global effect Raddus is having on the game, based on my early impressions :

1) first thing is he really hammers the flotilla race -

first and lasting has much much less weight when the MC-75 will drop in your back arc anyhow. And the 100 points invested in activation spam could have helped you fighting that

2) He's hurting more front-arc shooters.

the worst thing to have when facing a Raddus drop is a single massive point-sink ISD, something that has proved being very strong in the pre-Raddus meta. This ship will never shoot the big Raddus drop with its front arc.

But big side-arc shooters are not completely hammered by Raddus. As long as you "occupy" their front arc to prevent Raddus from dropping right there, they could get opportunities to fight with their side arc in later rounds. This might help MC80s and assault frigates.

So, more hurt on the 1 big + 4-5 flotillas that were legitimately hated.

And yes, because he helps against the activation race, he also helps rogue squadrons as a solution if you want to go low. All good, no ?

Because ISDs and flotillas are certainly still very good, my early impression of Raddus is that he might do a bunch of beneficial things to the meta, by:

- broadening the range of playable ships and squads

- harming the flotilla / activation race

- diversifying the combat ship options

I think Raddus is winning because minds of not adjusted (besides being super-good), but my hope is that he will help build a very broad and wealthy meta.

My only concern with Raddus is that since he bones front arc ships, he effectively bones most Imperials. Imperials have almost exclusively front arc ships especially for ships that can seriously threaten a large ship like the MC75. and this means, in turn, that the only things that significantly threaten an MC75 Raddus Bomb are high-activation, high-squadron count fleets.

1 minute ago, thecactusman17 said:

My only concern with Raddus is that since he bones front arc ships, he effectively bones most Imperials. Imperials have almost exclusively front arc ships especially for ships that can seriously threaten a large ship like the MC75. and this means, in turn, that the only things that significantly threaten an MC75 Raddus Bomb are high-activation, high-squadron count fleets.

Which "conveniently" keeps the current Imperial meta locked to ISD+Floats+squads.

I have been playing a couple games with double ISD vs. Raddus and it looks decently healthy : One ISD is tracking the flagship, while the other one is keeping a flexible track to 'cross' the first one, so that wherever Raddus drops, the non-threatened ISD should be able to 'cover the other's back', and whatever comes should have a late game vs. an ISD front arc.

This requires maneuvering and anticipation, but that's the spice of the game and that's quite feasible actually.

1 minute ago, thecactusman17 said:

My only concern with Raddus is that since he bones front arc ships, he effectively bones most Imperials. Imperials have almost exclusively front arc ships especially for ships that can seriously threaten a large ship like the MC75. and this means, in turn, that the only things that significantly threaten an MC75 Raddus Bomb are high-activation, high-squadron count fleets.

Which "conveniently" keeps the current Imperial meta locked to ISD+Floats+squads.

Actually, Imperials do have methods to deal with Raddus other than squadrons (Hint: Gladiators have a strong side arc and move first ).

As far as 2ISD builds are concerned, a good build should be able to either threaten a destruction of a Raddus dropship before the drop and/or to hit and fly away from the range fast.

9 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

My only concern with Raddus is that since he bones front arc ships, he effectively bones most Imperials. Imperials have almost exclusively front arc ships especially for ships that can seriously threaten a large ship like the MC75. and this means, in turn, that the only things that significantly threaten an MC75 Raddus Bomb are high-activation, high-squadron count fleets.

Which "conveniently" keeps the current Imperial meta locked to ISD+Floats+squads.

Raddus is not overly difficult to deal with. You just need to deploy right. You need to come at the fleet from two angles, You make them pick which ISD they want to go after and use the other one to turn in once that player has committed. This has been my solution for all Raddus builds and I have been very successful with my dual ISD list. You have to look at it differently.

37 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

I don’t think the fleets themsekves are terrible. But the extremely obvious archetype viability is really not good. Even other normally positive posters have noted it. Having 120 squads or more wins 75% of the time (and has an increasing rate of success through top 8 and 4). (Also the taken rate of mass squads is something like 30% only. It’s double the average expected win rate) Large ships plus flotillas is the name of the day with MSUbeing much more difficult and not showing up much.

Flotillas are an issue especially with the 5+1 crap we are seeing, but if you choose to ignore a facet of the game, namely squads and don't take anything to plan against them then you shouldn't be winning. I think there could be better Air to Air support squadrons but if someone invests 130 points into a bomber or Sloan force then it should be effective. Its more cost than an ISD.

1 hour ago, Democratus said:

I've seen the activation issue get worse via Raddus.

For example, fleets that have 7-8 activations so that they still have first/last even when the Raddus ship is off the table.

And the response to this of having 6-7 activations as a non-Raddus fleet to prevent it.

But each meta to its own. We all live in strange little bubbles of Armada with their local peccadillos.

I do not understand how the answer to the activation shenanigans trump admiral is moar activations.

22 minutes ago, ripper998 said:

Flotillas are an issue especially with the 5+1 crap we are seeing, but if you choose to ignore a facet of the game, namely squads and don't take anything to plan against them then you shouldn't be winning.

There is a difference between ignoring squads and taking no-squad/squad-light fleet while planning for high-squad fleet encounters. First approach shouldn't be winning, second one should have a reasonable chance. Currently the problem for low-squad fleets (as I see it) is not winning, but winning big as it's much harder to achieve tabling nowadays (and to get extra points from forcing missions without having strategic).

50 minutes ago, ripper998 said:

Flotillas are an issue especially with the 5+1 crap we are seeing, but if you choose to ignore a facet of the game, namely squads and don't take anything to plan against them then you shouldn't be winning. I think there could be better Air to Air support squadrons but if someone invests 130 points into a bomber or Sloan force then it should be effective. Its more cost than an ISD.

The squadron meta is slowly evening back out, but a well flown max-squads list will annihilate a well-flown minimal squads list most of the time. As @Blail Blerg noted, max squads lists are vastly over-represented in the top ranks of competition play which indicates a strong capability beyond their straight fleet cost. As a player who frequently does well with a particular no-squadron list archetype, I can tell you that careful list building, smart flying and crafty play to achieve discrete goals is critical to doing well against large squadron balls. The days of untouchable no-squad lists ended right around the introduction of Rogues and Villains and was reduced further with the nerfs to Flotillas and Demolisher.

19 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

The squadron meta is slowly evening back out, but a well flown max-squads list will annihilate a well-flown minimal squads list most of the time

I would disagree. I fly min squad/no squad lists most of the time and I expect to win against most max-squad lists (however I do tech against them).

35 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

The squadron meta is slowly evening back out, but a well flown max-squads list will annihilate a well-flown minimal squads list most of the time. As @Blail Blerg noted, max squads lists are vastly over-represented in the top ranks of competition play which indicates a strong capability beyond their straight fleet cost. As a player who frequently does well with a particular no-squadron list archetype, I can tell you that careful list building, smart flying and crafty play to achieve discrete goals is critical to doing well against large squadron balls. The days of untouchable no-squad lists ended right around the introduction of Rogues and Villains and was reduced further with the nerfs to Flotillas and Demolisher.

@ripper998

This has always been my opinion. Please don't take my brevity for simplicity, my opinion on this is very nuanced.

@thecactusman, yeah, I'm actually of the opinion that currently no squadrons is actually a lot more viable than perhaps even more recent past waves. But only because it takes advantage of lists who take squads only for AA, triangle theory at its most extreme. Especially with current fleets, large ships can weather a Yavaris type squadron attack, and wipe out the carrier in one turn/attack and then move on, plausibly surviving. Though, even though this is counterplay, its basically one of the only options currently available for no squad vs mass bomber

22 minutes ago, PT106 said:

I would disagree. I fly min squad/no squad lists most of the time and I expect to win against most max-squad lists (however I do tech against them).

You and I are part of a small group flying at that level in competition. I don't find it to be common.

Thats also somewhat self selecting. How many players could succeed with lower squads that don’t because they don’t want to?

4 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

Thats also somewhat self selecting. How many players could succeed with lower squads that don’t because they don’t want to?

Just as self selecting as how many players could succeed with lots of squads that don't because they don't want to? (In fact, its more commonly insinuated that people who can't play squads don't and are more common. Which is the common git gud response. Its a self-defeating inquiry.)

Anyway, atm, its "viable" to go no squads: you just gotta plan to wipe something off the board before you get squad pummeled by bomber lists. Or plan to lose that one game to win big on your others. (It wins VERY big against screen lists).

--

Did anyone post the full @Roquax super balls list? did I miss it?

Fair point.

7 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Just as self selecting as how many players could succeed with lots of squads that don't because they don't want to? (In fact, its more commonly insinuated that people who can't play squads don't and are more common. Which is the common git gud response. Its a self-defeating inquiry.)

Anyway, atm, its "viable" to go no squads: you just gotta plan to wipe something off the board before you get squad pummeled by bomber lists. Or plan to lose that one game to win big on your others. (It wins VERY big against screen lists).

--

Did anyone post the full @Roquax super balls list? did I miss it?

I'm in the process of editing the videos and will be putting them up soon - the lists will be on the video itself.

15 hours ago, Democratus said:

I've seen the activation issue get worse via Raddus.

For example, fleets that have 7-8 activations so that they still have first/last even when the Raddus ship is off the table.

And the response to this of having 6-7 activations as a non-Raddus fleet to prevent it.

But each meta to its own. We all live in strange little bubbles of Armada with their local peccadillos.

I think the finals game is a good example of how to mitigate the activation spam. I noted how once that Raddus MC75 dropped he was essentially dictating the activations of the Dodonna MC80 by just posing a huge threat. Being out activated massively didn't seem to hurt him at all. It was really interesting to see what I would have thought would be a real problem being overcome with a good plan.

15 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Did anyone post the full @Roquax super balls list? did I miss it?

Name: Canada 2018 1st Carlo Roque
Faction: Rebel
Commander: Admiral Raddus

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

MC75 Ordnance Cruiser (100)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Hardend Bulkheads (5)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
• Expanded Launchers (13)
• Aspiration (3)
= 146 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
• Admiral Raddus (26)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
• Jaina's Light (2)
= 87 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Quantum Storm (1)
= 19 Points

Squadrons:
• 8 x YT-2400 (128)
= 128 Points

Total Points: 380

Name: Canada 2018 2nd Shiu-Yik Au
Faction: Rebel
Commander: General Dodonna

Assault: Advanced Gunnery
Defense:
Navigation:

MC80 Assault Cruiser (114)
• General Dodonna (20)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Early Warning System (7)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• Defiance (5)
= 179 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Adar Tallon (10)
= 28 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Toryn Farr (7)
• Bright Hope (2)
= 27 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Comms Net (2)
= 20 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
= 18 Points

Squadrons:
• Biggs Darklighter (19)
• 2 x X-wing Squadron (26)
• 2 x VCX-100 Freighter (30)
• YT-1300 (13)
• Jan Ors (19)
• Nym (21)
= 128 Points

Total Points: 400

Top four had two six activation fleets, one three activation fleet, and one two activation fleet, didn't it?

All four having near-max squadrons and 0-1 small combat ships should be more of a meta red/yellow flag than activations.

I’m just impressed by the quality of the Canadian casting, brilliant stuff.

1 hour ago, beefcake4000 said:

I’m just impressed by the quality of the Canadian casting, brilliant stuff.

I'm guessing you meant the video.....not the audio....we were having probably too many beers lol.

4 hours ago, Mogrok said:

I'm guessing you meant the video.....not the audio....we were having probably too many beers lol.

The video was amazing and frankly you did as well as you could with the audio! It’s **** hard to fill all that down time when the players are thinking about stuff and you kept it interesting. Substantially better than what FFG itself pulls off at worlds! Those two muppets never have much of a clue about basic rules etc.

like I said, great stuff, much appreciated and hugely valuable to our community.

13 hours ago, Don Henderson fan club said:

Name: Canada 2018 1st Carlo Roque
Faction: Rebel
Commander: Admiral Raddus

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

MC75 Ordnance Cruiser (100)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Hardend Bulkheads (5)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
• Expanded Launchers (13)
• Aspiration (3)
= 146 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
• Admiral Raddus (26)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
• Jaina's Light (2)
= 87 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Quantum Storm (1)
= 19 Points

Squadrons:
• 8 x YT-2400 (128)
= 128 Points

Total Points: 380

Name: Canada 2018 2nd Shiu-Yik Au
Faction: Rebel
Commander: General Dodonna

Assault: Advanced Gunnery
Defense:
Navigation:

MC80 Assault Cruiser (114)
• General Dodonna (20)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Early Warning System (7)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• Defiance (5)
= 179 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Adar Tallon (10)
= 28 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Toryn Farr (7)
• Bright Hope (2)
= 27 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Comms Net (2)
= 20 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
= 18 Points

Squadrons:
• Biggs Darklighter (19)
• 2 x X-wing Squadron (26)
• 2 x VCX-100 Freighter (30)
• YT-1300 (13)
• Jan Ors (19)
• Nym (21)
= 128 Points

Total Points: 400

It was really interesting seeing such asymetric lists fighting it out in the end. I loved how well Carlos dictated the pace of the engagement once the MC75 dropped despite being so far behind on activations. Looks like a great counter to fleets that only have one big hitter like an Aveneger ISD.

Also really interesting seeing Nym back on the table and I can see how it works well overall. Great stuffing

Agreed on the casting duo/trio of Brendon and Krystyn (lol sp?). Very well done and made me laugh a lot. FFG should have you guys do Worlds.