30 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

@dukncuver Fair, but I contend that having to assign heights in addition to "Hard or Soft" to all terrain (which is probably the easiest solution) such as forrests of various types of trees could take much longer to determine at the start of the game with random terrain than just determining "Hard or Soft". The next thing would be to have to declare altitude for Speeders each turn, because couldn't they drop down to height 1 to duck behind that building?

I'm not sure I understand your point about the trees. Do you mean that each individual tree in a piece of area cover should be measured? In most cases probably not, if the dispersion is fairly uniform I would just go with the highest tree being the height. I don't think that altitude levels for flying models should be changed any more than trooper units should be able to "go prone" and fully hide behind a barricade(I understand suppression simulates this to a lesser degree) or an at-st can crouch down to shoot under an overhang unimpeded. Those mechanics might have their place in other games, but I don't think they do in this one. Personally, I prefer the final resting position of the models to represent where they actually are and what they can see. Perhaps my issue with determining cover falls into the category of "excessive fiddliness"? I guess I will just have to see how much it pops up in actual gameplay and see what other players think.

@dukncuver My point more was that these are other arguments I expect if your (valid) issue was addressed. I doubt the Airspeeder is modeled at a foot high, but that is Height 2. (Range bands are 6"), so a further complication with the True LOS and abstracting heights.

For all units except troopers you look from the top most part of the model (where the guns generally are) then look from that point of view. Not base to base from Airspeeder to troops. So NO. The troops do not have cover cause half of their bodies are not blocked by the barricade. If they were right up against the barricade then YES.. they have cover. That is my interpretation of the rules for tall units.

15 minutes ago, cookluke5150 said:

For all units except troopers you look from the top most part of the model (where the guns generally are) then look from that point of view. Not base to base from Airspeeder to troops. So NO. The troops do not have cover cause half of their bodies are not blocked by the barricade. If they were right up against the barricade then YES.. they have cover. That is my interpretation of the rules for tall units.

No, you only check from the upper most point to see if a model can see another unit, not for cover. Pertinent part of Cover rules from the Rulebook quoted below, page 22.

Quote

To determine if a unit has cover during an attack, a player performs the following steps:

1. Determine Number of Obscured Miniatures: The player traces an imaginary line from the center of the base of the attacker’s unit leader to the center of the base of a mini in the defending unit. If the imaginary line crosses either a piece of terrain or another unit’s base, that mini is obscured. The player repeats this process for each mini in the defender to determine how many of those minis are obscured.

47 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

No, you only check from the upper most point to see if a model can see another unit, not for cover. Pertinent part of Cover rules from the Rulebook quoted below, page 22.

This is in direct contradiction of page 8s claim that generally, terrain only provides cover if it blocks LOS to 50% or more of a miniature.

So the issue is the two pages dont agree.

34 minutes ago, Thoras said:

This is in direct contradiction of page 8s claim that generally, terrain only provides cover if it blocks LOS to 50% or more of a miniature.

So the issue is the two pages dont agree.

No, page 8 deals with determining the type of cover that a piece of custom terrain provides, as it says at the start of the section. The quoted section of page 22 in my previous post only deals with if the terrain "obscurs." If the custom terrain obscurs more than half of the unit when drawing lines from the leader then

Quote

If the obscured minis are obscured by custom terrain, that unit has the cover that the custom terrain provides.

Page 8 deals with determining if custom terrain provides no, light, or heavy cover before the game, not how to determine cover when firing at a unit. Barricades always provide Heavy cover, and vehicles always provide light cover, regardless of how much of the unit behind them they cover.

Which means that an Airspeeder provides troopers behind it with light cover interestingly enough....Edit: that's what I get for not double checking the whole section after just skimming for quotes :-P

16 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

No, page 8 deals with determining the type of cover that a piece of custom terrain provides, as it says at the start of the section. The quoted section of page 22 in my previous post only deals with if the terrain "obscurs." If the custom terrain obscurs more than half of the unit when drawing lines from the leader then

Page 8 deals with determining if custom terrain provides no, light, or heavy cover before the game, not how to determine cover when firing at a unit. Barricades always provide Heavy cover, and vehicles always provide light cover, regardless of how much of the unit behind them they cover.

Which means that an Airspeeder provides troopers behind it with light cover interestingly enough....

There is that bit about how repulsion vehicles don’t block Los though. Does that not prevent the airspeeder providing cover?

4 minutes ago, beefcake4000 said:

There is that bit about how repulsion vehicles don’t block Los though. Does that not prevent the airspeeder providing cover?

Missed that part, thanks!

6 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Missed that part, thanks!

It’s thesprt of rule book you read “wholistically”