19 minutes ago, Astrodar said:

Basically it works itself out either way. If it's on resolve, you just need a comms net or lead in token.

If on reveal:

• Reveal Dial
• Get Token
• Spend Token to Discard Raid
• Resolve Dial

If on resolve:

• Reveal Dial
• Spend Token from Previous Turn to Discard Raid
• Resolve Dial
• Get Token

So essentially raid isn't preventing the command on the SSD. It's just preventing 2 points of repair when they get around to using it.

Which means they need a comms net ship to hand that token out, hope a squad command is not used to activate the gauntlets if they do or get sliced. Its like everyone thinks because the ship has rogue that it has to go at the end.

Next you already have 220 points base for a ship with an ISD front and a weaker VSD sides. If you are spending points on a comm ship you wont have much left elsewhere.

14 minutes ago, Truthiness said:

You can? Huh. News to me. I mean it's not like there was a whole wave to test that included huge game altering mechnanics, such as Pryce and Bail, along with four new ship variants.

Sorry Truth, I'm not faulting the testing, or the testers here. I know it's a monumental task. But I think in an effort to make sure on top of all the other mechanics they were introducing this wasn't too strong they released it without thinking through just how weak it was either. Because raid could easily have been too strong. However, I would have liked for raid to be something we saw on the table. Currently we just don't. Maybe the SSD changes that, maybe it doesn't. Even as a Yavaris deterrant it was DOA because it involved both sacrificing a 20pt squad to a Yavaris double tap that was still going through anyway cause of the fact no Yavaris fleet was running without Coms net. If the reverse had been the case Yavaris would still be able to double tap - one squad, via the token - after sacrificing the dial, and suddenly that might have been an appealing trade.

There are just things in Armada where it feels like after testing the final changes that were made that were not entirely thought through - like they made changes and then didn't thoroughly test those changes afterward to see how they impacted things. Another example is targeting beacons - why does the first player get to place 2 tokens if they can't get any benefit from them? It just seems like an artifact from a prior version of the objective that allowed the first player some effect that would motivate to place them in the combat area that was deemed too strong and changed, but left the token placement there making the objective overall more mediocre than it should have been because the second player would have been able to utilize all 4 tokens, instead of 2.

Raid could actually be interesting against a triple Cymoon list*. So maybe if those become really common Raid will occasionally make an appearance.

*Unless it's a Tarkin/Sovereign list, which is basically Raid's worst nightmare.

1 hour ago, Lyraeus said:

Stop being an ***. You want me to catch up on two years of things in the span of what two weeks get off your high horse

No, wrong again. He wants you to stop being a pretentious know-it-all and listen to the advice you claim you are asking for. There is not some Armada hive mind; Broba is one of the most unique and paradigm-challenging players we currently have. I've read several of these threads. Broba has showed up, as he always does, to aid and to offer advice in good faith. You have, without fail, in no particular order, ignored him, misrepresented him, insulted him, and generally been dismissive and condescending. If you really want to learn, shut up and figure out why we're telling you what we're telling you. This isn't Wave 2, the community is much larger, much stronger as players, and much smarter than when you left. Either wise up to that fact or understand that you are not earning any sort of goodwill from anyone on these boards. I'm not telling you to leave, I'm asking you to get your **** together.

11 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Its bad design if that is all it was for. Armada has very little overall bad designs like that. Likely we are missing something down the road if they are still testing

IF the article is correct raid is decent against an SSD, however if it is Raymus on a ship its useless as I said

We have plenty of bad designs. Half the ion upgrades are regarded as useless. The difference with Armada is the developers have managed to err on the side of caution. It's better than the other way where a new upgrade is ungodly powerful (see: X-Wing)

6 minutes ago, Truthiness said:

We have plenty of bad designs. Half the ion upgrades are regarded as useless. The difference with Armada is the developers have managed to err on the side of caution. It's better than the other way where a new upgrade is ungodly powerful (see: X-Wing) 

As annoying as it is that several mechanic types, particularly control-type stuff is weak, I'd much rather they err on the side of caution. Konstantine plus Tractors, let alone with G-8, would have been a huge NPE since Armada's anti-control stuff is much weaker.

15 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

As annoying as it is that several mechanic types, particularly control-type stuff is weak, I'd much rather they err on the side of caution. Konstantine plus Tractors, let alone with G-8, would have been a huge NPE since Armada's anti-control stuff is much weaker.

Its the fact that control is weaker because there is too much going on. Its rather annoying

It's almost as if Armada is designed so both players can play the game instead of 1 player controlling their opponents entire fleet. Ever play MTG against blue? Yea. **** that.

15 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

It's almost as if Armada is designed so both players can play the game instead of 1 player controlling their opponents entire fleet. Ever play MTG against blue? Yea. **** that.

Hey I hate Johnny's as much as the next person but I DO enjoy interesting play styles that are not just limited to a couple of styles

16 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Hey I hate Johnny's as much as the next person but I DO enjoy interesting play styles that are not just limited to a couple of styles

There's a wide open meta - people are trying to herd you out into, not confine you to some small pre-existing box.

3 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

There's a wide open meta - people are trying to herd you out into, not confine you to some small pre-existing box.

Sure, lets see here, there is squadron heavy, squadronless, ship heavy, ship light, token farming (which is a byproduct of one of the other types), maybe a few others.

Basically lets split all these different versions in to two camps. The Kill Fast camp and the Kill over time camp

Real diverse. Its roughly the same type of play either way but its still just skilled on how quickly you can drop an opponent. If I recall you even made that point on this thread months ago.

2 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Basically lets split all these different versions in to two camps. The Kill Fast camp and the Kill over time camp                   

Literally every adversarial competitive game ever has strategies that come down to "win fast" or "win slow," so I don't exactly see what your point is, here. Chess is nearly impossible to completely master and most of its openings facilitate one of these two methods.

As a matter of fact, lets break it down to 1 version: Win.

You're right. All fleets are the same. They want to win. There is no hope for diversity so long as all fleets are designed to win.

Seriously dude, I get that I got sarcastic but I am trying to engage and have a discussion here. But I'm done, I'm over it. I don't know if you are just trolling or if you are for real but that's like strike 3 from me, I'm just throwing you on ignore.

20 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

Literally every adversarial competitive game ever has strategies that come down to "win fast" or "win slow," so I don't exactly see what your point is, here. Chess is nearly impossible to completely master and most of its openings facilitate one of these two methods.

Fine, what ever, I will just shut up and go away. As proven, I contribute nothing and am way to far behind to even know what I am talking about.

How would you describe controlling their movements into a inescapable demise?

Sounds like winning of a slow variety.

59 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

Literally every adversarial competitive game ever has strategies that come down to "win fast" or "win slow," so I don't exactly see what your point is, here. Chess is nearly impossible to completely master and most of its openings facilitate one of these two methods.

What we really need is a win medium strategy.

Just now, sweeper678 said:

What we really need is a win medium strategy.        

"win medium" is just mixing those two flavors together ? .

To be fair, @BrobaFett has it right that it's all just variants of "win," which is really boring and lacks depth. That's why humans gave up on games of any kind long ago: a recreational activity with a goal of winning just doesn't have enough replay value.

2 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

Which means they need a comms net ship to hand that token out, hope a squad command is not used to activate the gauntlets if they do or get sliced. Its like everyone thinks because the ship has rogue that it has to go at the end.

Next you already have 220 points base for a ship with an ISD front and a weaker VSD sides. If you are spending points on a comm ship you wont have much left elsewhere.

One of the easiest things in this game is getting a token. For two points and an officer slot, you can start the game with a token of your choice.

6 minutes ago, Astrodar said:

One of the easiest things in this game is getting a token. For two points and an officer slot, you can start the game with a token of your choice.

Good thing the SSD has 3 officer slots huh?

9 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

"win medium" is just mixing those two flavors together ? .

To be fair, @BrobaFett has it right that it's all just variants of "win," which is really boring and lacks depth. That's why humans gave up on games of any kind long ago: a recreational activity with a goal of winning just doesn't have enough replay value.

Win medium is what, consistent 6-5s? So, Konstantine if you're a master.

18 minutes ago, Astrodar said:

One of the easiest things in this game is getting a token. For two points and an officer slot, you can start the game with a token of your choice.

Not even that- these aren’t surprise Gauntlets, you see them before you deploy, and know therefore your carriers need to spend that first turn banking a squadron, then holding on to it!

2 minutes ago, TheCallum said:

Not even that- these aren’t surprise Gauntlets, you see them before you deploy, and know therefore your carriers need to spend that first turn banking a Nav, then holding on to it!

Where my multi layer approach is then saying “excellent! Stay at speed 0!” ?

25 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

"win medium" is just mixing those two flavors together ? .

So, using Raiders for objective play? With a substantial bid, naturally.

15 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

Hey I hate Johnny's as much as the next person but I DO enjoy interesting play styles that are not just limited to a couple of styles

You can play vastly different games with the same fleet if you swap commanders and a few upgrades. Dodonna, Sato, and Rieekan can be squad focused or ship focused and all 6 fleets will play very differently. I'd know because I've played Dodonna and Sato to death as squad focused or ship focused, and well, Rieekan is self explanatory.

You're limiting yourself by thinking everyone who contradicts you is telling you that the idea you have is bad, but really we are describing what the current meta is. Gauntlets are not good right now. But like I said earlier, depending on how the SSD token thing works, raid could be a viable choice against the SSD.

When someone says MSU is dead, or mostly dead, it's because they work fine until you play against Vader dual Cymoon which each throw 5+ red dice twice with rerolls and other mods. Or Vics are out because Raddus bombs will **** them up. Or control style fleets don't work because Kuats and Ord 75s will get in your face and kill you faster than you can manipulate the board state.

The flotilla nerf is what made this meta possible. All of a sudden it's much easier to table your opponent so you need to bring more combat ships and you need to keep them alive. This is a large ship meta. You can stray from that, but understand that it has already been tried.