1 hour ago, Nightone said:

Meele for solos

Holy crap! That's goddamned brilliant!

9 minutes ago, Nightone said:

here some ideas for the not RAW-ish , where you were out of them

Good stuff! I'll keep 'em in the back pocket when I present the career to the group tomorrow! I might bump the Dedication, I really like the "Tune it up - really good" tallent.

Glad I could be of assistance!

8 hours ago, Desslok said:

Okay, here is my very, very rough draft. Following the Commodore layout is a good idea, so four straight shots to the bottom (undecided if I'd link them at the bottom. Probably not):

Funny enough, I actually had an idea for a Technomancer in Starfinder, who fought with the power of Rock. His little robot aids would be floating speakers and woofers, he used an electric guitar to cast his spells (OF ROCK), sending sonic attacks at his foes (though mechanically it's just the basic spells), and he was the most 80's hairband inspired Rock God you could imagine.

OT:

Random types of rolls I would have them make for a performance, which is what I suspect you want:

Coordination/Athletics checks for doing crazy things while being able to maintain the song they are playing.

Performance checks, for obvious reasons. I would probably lump all actual musical instrument playing into Performance, and leave it at that.

Charm checks for (usually) the lead singer to stir the enthusiasm of the crowd.

Given my own experience with concerts and raves over the last 25 odd years...**** that long....I'd probably handle a performance similar to the crafting, or chase mechanics, where there is a target goal of successes to aim for, and each persons actions build toward that goal, the goal of giving a good show.

The triumphs and advantages could be represented as the crowd becoming more into the performance, and the energy they give off further invigorating the band to perform better. Anyone that's been to concerts where the crowd was both into, and not into the performance, are likely familiar with the phenomenon I'm referring to. The band feeds off the crowds reaction to their performance, further invigorating the music, which makes the crowd even more fanatical in their expression of enjoyment.

Despairs and Threat would be things like a-holes in the crowd who just happen to toss a beer bottle at the right angle to smack a band member in the face. Or one of the band members slipping on a slick spot on stage, and taking a dive to the ground. Or a faulty speaker/guitar, that the technicians just can't get fixed, causing the crowd to boo continuously, turning against the band.

Random talent ideas for an actual spec build, though this is more just for lulz in my mind but:

Stage Routine: PC chooses Performance, Charm, Coordination, or Athletics when picking this talent, whenever they make such a check with the aid of a bandmate (either skilled or unskilled assistance), they can suffer 2 strain and add an automatic success to their check, per rank of Stage Routine.

Improved Stage Routine: If bandmates providing assistance also have the Stage Routine talent, the PC can convert successes into Triumphs, up to ranks in Stage Routine. (This allows for the band to put on a choreographed dance routine, or an improvised bit of stage antics seemlessly, and have it be epic. Think of the show bands like KISS or GWAR or whatever, who put on elaborate stage performances, this is that, and the triumphs help it be epic)

Blistering Solo: PC can make a Performance check at a Hard difficulty, and can elect to have setback dice added in for extra difficulty. If the PC makes the check, the entire band, minus him, can recover strain equal to ranks in Blistering Solo + optional setback the PC elected to use. (Basically everyone gets a breather while Neil Peart goes on his 8 minute YYZ solo, but it's difficult, because now the ENTIRE performance is on him, and the show's quality now depends on if he's able to carry out the solo.)

The Crowd as Band: The PC makes a Charm check, difficulty Hard, to rally the crowd to sing along. If they make the check, the entire band gets a number of successes banked for future rolls, equal to ranks in Crowd as Band. The band can distribute these successes as they desire on rolls.

Improved The Crowd as Band: If the PC elects to spend 3 strain, they can also reduce the difficulty of following band rolls, equal to ranks in Crowd as Band, by 1, down to a minimum of 1. (Think of the times when Freddy Mercury would play a call and response with a crowd of 10,000 fans for several minutes, and the entire crowd would get into it, and it would create an atmosphere of comraderie that would help to gloss over little flaws later, like a broken guitar string, or bad weather, etc. The crowd was having such a direct connection with the band due to Crowd as Band, that they just didn't care about the bad parts, and were in love with the good parts).

So, yeah i could probably churn out some others, but that's what comes to mind at the moment.

Oh god, I even know where I can insert this tree narratively! (Spoilered to avert wandering player eyes)

9 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

So, yeah i could probably churn out some others, but that's what comes to mind at the moment.

Um, holy crap. Did I mention how much I love you? Your Kung Fu is indeed strong this morning! Will read more indepth and digest when I'm not, you know, suppose to be doing work at work.

I need to remember to check the forums more often, keep an eye on what Desslock is doing. We co-GM this group together, which can be a lot of fun. I worry a little about creating all the extra tree's and things. I just don't want the bookkeeping to get to be to much. Currently we're more or less letting people choose skills they think are appropriate. I think people have gone Charm for Vocals, and coordination for most of the instruments. Possibly Athletics, I don't remember. I'm willing to give most anything a try though, it's all in fun.

On a related note, this is totally different then any campaign I've ever GM'd. I worry a bit about consistently coming up with good stories. I think I need to go back and watch a lot of Josie and the Pussiecats, and Jem and the Holograms.

13 minutes ago, Split Light said:

I just don't want the bookkeeping to get to be to much.

The thing is, even if we don't use any of this brainstorming, I wont be too terribly crushed. It's been fun building a tree and hashing all this out anyway as a thought experiment.

No complaints. I've enjoyed reading through the thread. Lots of great ideas. We'll be able to pick and choose what we and the players like. Some of the talent ideas are great. I hadn't even thought of the Pyrotechnics, or merch. stuff. This is all new, so I am happy to solicit ideas.

48 minutes ago, Split Light said:

On a related note, this is totally different then any campaign I've ever GM'd. I worry a bit about consistently coming up with good stories. I think I need to go back and watch a lot of Josie and the Pussiecats, and Jem and the Holograms.

You could also try playing Brutal Legend, which is about the closest I can think of to fusing rock and roll, and a roleplaying game.

It's silly yeah, but so is the entire idea itself

22 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

You could also try playing Brutal Legend, which is about the closest I can think of to fusing rock and roll, and a roleplaying game.

It's silly yeah, but so is the entire idea itself

While we haven't specifically discussed it, I think we're purposefully going a bit lighter feel. Our last campaign got pretty intense.

7 minutes ago, Split Light said:

While we haven't specifically discussed it, I think we're purposefully going a bit lighter feel. Our last campaign got pretty intense.

Just wait until you get to the game I've been working on set in the haunted abandoned amusement park and it's caretaker Old Man Witherspoon (who is totally not the ghost, I assure you). That ****'s gonna be off the rails scary.

Jinkies.

49 minutes ago, Split Light said:

While we haven't specifically discussed it, I think we're purposefully going a bit lighter feel. Our last campaign got pretty intense.

Yeah I'd say Rock Band the RPG is a bit lighter than most things Personally I'd just see it as an opportunity to cut loose, ham it up, and have fun. Channel that part of you that always wanted to be an over the top rock star, give yourself a crazy persona, and just crank it Up To Eleven.

I mean there is precedent for this, as there was an arcade game back in the 80s where you played as the band Journey, and you fought monsters/aliens with the power of rock. You'd shoot out music notes and stuff and go through the different stages as the different band members. So I'd say this is just bringing it around full circle in a way

Find some clips on youtube and bookmark them on your phone, of crazy metal riffs, and play them when you do your attacks to represent the sonic attacks you unleash. And other such goofiness

9 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

play them when you do your attacks to represent the sonic attacks you unleash.

Dibs on Prince's face meltingly awesome solo during While My Guitar Gently Weeps! (It starts about 3:20 into the video)

21 minutes ago, Desslok said:

Dibs on Prince's face meltingly awesome solo during While My Guitar Gently Weeps! (It starts about 3:20 into the video)

That's a good one, but I was thinking more this first little bit at 20 seconds. Mostly because it just makes me giggle.

29 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

Yeah I'd say Rock Band the RPG is a bit lighter than most things Personally I'd just see it as an opportunity to cut loose, ham it up, and have fun. Channel that part of you that always wanted to be an over the top rock star, give yourself a crazy persona, and just crank it Up To Eleven.

I mean there is precedent for this, as there was an arcade game back in the 80s where you played as the band Journey, and you fought monsters/aliens with the power of rock. You'd shoot out music notes and stuff and go through the different stages as the different band members. So I'd say this is just bringing it around full circle in a way

Find some clips on youtube and bookmark them on your phone, of crazy metal riffs, and play them when you do your attacks to represent the sonic attacks you unleash. And other such goofiness

While the rock band certainly plays a big part in the game, it's not like it's the only feature. In the first game out the characters had to deal with tracking down a minor crime boss, a murderer at the music festival, and a small slavery/drug ring. Of course they also spent all night at dance clubs, partied until they could barely walk, and threw up all over the inside of a taxi.

The band supplies the structure that propels the story along, but there will be plenty of action / active elements.

14 hours ago, Desslok said:

Okay, here is my very, very rough draft. Following the Commodore layout is a good idea, so four straight shots to the bottom (undecided if I'd link them at the bottom. Probably not):

Love the names

So, since you're changing things up anyway, why not use the Genesys pyramid model? You could add additional ranked boost add/setback removal (like you have for Sound Check), eg add "Broken String" for Musician (or Plugged Tube, or whatever).

45 minutes ago, Split Light said:

threw up all over the inside of a taxi.

To be fair, only one person threw up in the taxi. Now lets drop the subject before we get around to pointing fingers about who did the throwing up. *whistles innocently*

45 minutes ago, Split Light said:

The band supplies the structure that propels the story along, but there will be plenty of action / active elements.

It's a very strong A-Team/Knight Rider vibe here. They roll into town for a gig, but oh no! The restaurant they stop to eat at is being hassled by the mob who wants to buy the owners out because the land will be worth a ton when the interstate offramp goes in next door. Or they have to save the community center from Evil Developers (who want to turn it into condos) through the Power of Rock and Friendship! and that sort of thing.

(I need to shut up now. I've just thrown away two perfectly good game ideas!)

40 minutes ago, whafrog said:

Love the names

As an aside, I almost went with the Dead Kennedys for the Backstage Groupies talent, calling it Too Drunk to ****, but I didnt think that name would go over well with the others.

40 minutes ago, whafrog said:

since you're changing things up anyway, why not use the Genesys pyramid model?

I was going to bring that up with Split when we get together tomorrow, if we want the structured version or a more free-form version, which would allow me to add back into the mix a couple of cool talents that didnt make the cut (plus add in some of Kung Fu Ferret's stuff I love but have no room for). We'll see.

Okay, had some time to read thoroughly -

On 3/16/2018 at 8:54 AM, KungFuFerret said:

where there is a target goal of successes to aim for, and each persons actions build toward that goal, the goal of giving a good show.

I like that idea! So something like a Open Mic Night might need 5 successes, a State Fair would be 10 successes, and the half time at the superbowl would be 30 successes (numbers just pulled out of the air, obviously). If that's the crowd's "wound threshold", for lack of a better term, then perhaps the mood of the crowd could be the soak. A happy and receptive crowd would have a "soak" of 1 or 2, and an actively hostile crowd might have a "soak" of 10.

Actions would be playing the instruments, the blazing solo, setting off the pyro - all that is applied to the Wounds. Maneuvers like playing the crowd, stage business, crowdsurfing, costume changes and so on swing the mood of the crowd, reduce the "soak" and make actually playing easier.

3 minutes ago, Desslok said:

Okay, had some time to read thoroughly -

I like that idea! So something like a Open Mic Night might need 5 successes, a State Fair would be 10 successes, and the half time at the superbowl would be 30 successes (numbers just pulled out of the air, obviously). If that's the crowd's "wound threshold", for lack of a better term, then perhaps the mood of the crowd could be the soak. A happy and receptive crowd would have a "soak" of 1 or 2, and an actively hostile crowd might have a "soak" of 10.

Actions would be playing the instruments, the blazing solo, setting off the pyro - all that is applied to the Wounds. Maneuvers like playing the crowd, stage business, crowdsurfing, costume changes and so on swing the mood of the crowd, reduce the "soak" and make actually playing easier.

Sounds like an idea yeah

Okay, a quick bench test of the concert "battle" mechanic, playing a hostile superbowl (soak of 10, wounds of 30) with just two of the four characters (Charm of a 2 yellow one green and a Coordination of 1 yellow, two green). Rolling against two difficulty, and assuming that the maneuvers reduce the soak by 2 (so a reduction of 4, if you're willing to eat some some strain each round) it took 5 rounds to "beat" the concert.

Now the last thing I want to do is turn it into an endless dice rolling fest, but that went pretty fast for a Worst Case Scenario Encounter with only half the team. And then if we add in the talents from the tree helping out the performance, I don't think this would turn into a non-stop dice rolling slog. And with everyone narrating the **** out of what they're doing, it might just work.

Also, this might be best served as a mechanic that is only wheeled out rarely, for important concerts and not just every old gig.

Interesting mechanic. The issue I see with Soak and Wounds is that it turns the narrative dice back into a binary success/fail axis. You would need a limit on number of dice rolls because it's not as if you can just play longer and get more successes. Unless you're the Grateful Dead... Also, it's not really leveraging the narrative dice, unless maybe advantages/triumphs give free extra rolls to get more successes, but you can't really wow the audience that way. The skill checks shouldn't be about "conquering the current gig", but setting the tone for future gigs and opportunities.

I was looking at the Bad Press talent from Propagandist, and it might be useful. Make a Hard check for the suitable skill. Success is passable, the local reviewers say the band did okay..."worth the money if you like that sort of thing". You can keep touring, and you might have a small following, but the pay check isn't changing. Several advantages is a glowing review, and the chance at a bigger gig, the starting act for someone mildly famous. Many Triumphs and gigs later, spread over several skill checks and venues, means the band has developed some kind of pan-genre appeal, maybe not quite the Beatles, but heading in that direction.

Yeah, that was one of the problems I hadn't yet conceptualized in my head yet fully - what's to stop the band from rolling 50 times each, eventually beating the concert just through sheer brute force. That's just boring, back to a pointless dice rolling slogfest. There needs to be some kind of time limit or round limit or some other ticking clock, otherwise what's the point. Might as well just go "You win".

Of course the rest of the folks still aren't 100% on board with the whole idea yet anyway. One has been out of town since Monday and hasn't even see the tree, and everyone else is aware of it at a high level, but haven't actually given it any serious thought yet. We still have some miles to go with this before we're ready - if ever.

More thoughts:

First, implement a mechanic like Duty. I can't think of a good name, so for now call it E-Power (entertainment power). It goes up as they get better, goes down as they fail. They start as a local band, they can move up to regional, planetary, system, and galaxy. 0-100 for each range. Use narrative results to move E-Power. Maybe 2 per Advantage/Threat, 10 per Triumph/Despair (or whatever scale seems suitable).

I would just start with one skill roll for each gig. Pick a PC from a hat, their skill is on the line tonight. (Remove them from the next pool, but put them back in for the one after that. Keeps everybody interested in keeping their skills up.)

• Failure + Threat/Despair: you suck, and everyone hates you. Management refuses to pay. It will take a lot of Charm to get another gig.
• Failure: poor performance. People hope you will do better next time, too many of these add to difficulty charming/negotiating to get gigs.
• Success - a good time was had. Nothing memorable, but more gigs won't be too hard to get. No change in E-Power, following stays the same size.
• Success + Threat: management liked it, but you've annoyed some fans. There was a fight, someone was hurt, someone has it out for one of the band members, etc.
• 3 Advantage/1 Triumph: if the first band member fails, another PC can roll to "save the concert"
• 2A: boost negotiating next gig
• Advantage/Threat/Triumph/Despair: move the E-Power meter (may be used multiple times per result).

Probably lots of other ways to throw in narrative results, but those are some initial thoughts.

More thoughts (I can't stop!)

Getting a gig is always Hard difficulty, or use the stats of the nemesis booking agent, whichever is higher. However, the difficulty is modified by the difference between the band's E-Power "range" and the target gig (minimum 1). So if they are famous galacticly, booking a local venue is going to be Easy; but if they are a local band, booking something "regional" will be Daunting. They can do it, but they might have to headline for free, etc.

Performing is base Hard difficulty, upgraded once for each level above regional because there is more at stake. So a planetary gig is minimum RPP. Clever players who understand that "any press is good press" can make good use of Despairs, so they shouldn't be ruinous. Particularly important gigs could have a skill check per set (pick 2 or more PCs from the pool).

Setbacks are easy to add: the venue might have poor talent, bad/corrupt management, or even the weather can affect it.

Okay, hope it's useful, off to bed.

This is all amazing. Hopefully we can write up some "official" rules once the discussion has been hammered out.

My only suggestion: It would be fun to incorporate the Genesys Supers rule of exploding Triumphs. That wailing guitar solo just keeps rocking harder and harder. The singer holds that famous high note longer than anyone ever thought possible. The drummer must have sprouted an extra set of feet to play like that!

Soon the bootleg recordings of that concert are the stuff of legend.