So I know that @Split Lightand I will come up with thoughts all on our own, but I thought I'd ask the peanut gallery: if your players were in a rock band, what rolls would you ask for, performance wise.

"Angry Penguin," I hear you ask, "why are you making them roll for something that sounds pretty narrative to me?" Because we're playing Josie and the Pussycats in Outer Space: Star Wars Edition, so I imagine that this will come up one or two times during the course of the campaign. Besides it's fun to roll dice, come up with a triumph and completely blow the crowd away Freddy Mercury at Live Aid style (or roll a despair, completely misread the crowd, and start up a rhythm and blues song in a hardcore Country and Western bar!)

"Okay then, just come up with your own custom skills and call it good!" you say. Are you kidding? Starting characters don't have enough points to go around as it is, let alone adding 3 or 4 more skills into the mix. Besides, if Skill Monkey has taught us anything, its that the engine is flexible enough for just about any situation if you get creative!

(Now, the closest I've ever come to actually playing music is Rock Band, where I could Four Star Paradise by the Dashboard Light on a really good night. So not only are my guesses probably wildly incorrect, I expect everyone here to go "what are you thinking, you idiot"!)

I imagine that anyone on the mic, that's going to be charm. That's the easy one. (depending on the style of song too - an aggressive speed metal might be intimidation?)

The assorted instruments, with fine manipulation and dexterity - flutes, guitars and so - probably coordination. Piano is probably the same thing, although one of those 3 keyboard synth setups might be perception just to keep track of everything.

If you're doing a Daft Punk moog/synth set with lots of electronic voicoder and freaky auto-tuning, computers or mechanical?

Actually writing your own material? Lore if you're doing a folk song, Core Worlds or Outer Rim if you're trying to tailor the song to a demographic. Education seems weirdly inappropriate, a logical skill for something that's suppose to be emotional - but it makes a kind of sense. Perhaps more Charm?

Anyway, that's my shooting from the hip thoughts over lunch. What do you guys think? Any brainstorming would be appreciated.

In some cases, maybe vary the stat used with the skill? Maybe that synth uses Computers with Dex rather than Int ?

Might want to consider rolls against something to read the crowd, rather than just playing skills. Maybe vigilance to notice stuff going on in crowd or backstage.

I’d start with a homebrew career and add one (Presence-based) Perform skill. One extra skill isn’t going to kill them, and getting talents to boost that skill will make it more appealing. Mix in some charm/persuasion talents in one spec, maybe math/slicing in another (music is highly mathematical), and leadership/tactics talents in the third.

3 hours ago, Darzil said:

Maybe that synth uses Computers with Dex rather than Int

Oooh, I like that - plus it has the bonus of actually being RAW-ish. Not that we care about such things, but sometimes coloring within the lines is the best.

2 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

I’d start with a homebrew career and add one (Presence-based) Perform skill.

The problem going that route is that you'd wind up with four players that more or less look the same. It's always awesome to have a diverse group. Besides going that route, we could all do the performer and just add the one skill - so no custom tree necessary (or one with very little modification).

The racer (who just happens to be a musician) loves her tree, the technician Jedi (who just happens to be a musician) loves her tree, and I know I'm attached as **** to my gunslinging thief punk rock girl. There's only one actually with the performer tree, and I'd hate to step on his toes by doubling down on that class. Besides, I've already played a colonist once - I want to try out new stuff.

Years ago in the gaming magazine Polyhedron (Issue 158 to be exact) there were rules for a mini-game of d20 Modern called HiJinx that was designed with just this idea in mind. If you can find a copy of the mini-game (or the magazine) it has some great ideas for gaming as Josie and the Pussycats, or Jabberjaw and Band, or any of those 1970s/80s Teenage Rock and Roll cartoons.

1 minute ago, Quelthan said:

Issue 158 to be exact

Fantastic! Off to Ebay I go. I've already got the Cyberpunk 2020 Rockerboy sourcebook coming to me - which will probably be 75% useless, but I'm hoping to strip mine whatever game ideas are in there. And I found one old WotC free canned game deep, deep deep in my hard drive that was Rock Band related. Sure the players were just roadies and rebel agents, but I'm sure I can massage this into something useful.

5 minutes ago, Desslok said:

The problem going that route is that you'd wind up with four players that more or less look the same. It's always awesome to have a diverse group. Besides going that route, we could all do the performer and just add the one skill - so no custom tree necessary (or one with very little modification).

The racer (who just happens to be a musician) loves her tree, the technician Jedi (who just happens to be a musician) loves her tree, and I know I'm attached as **** to my gunslinging thief punk rock girl. There's only one actually with the performer tree, and I'd hate to step on his toes by doubling down on that class. Besides, I've already played a colonist once - I want to try out new stuff.

The custom trees would be specifically to allow diversification.

I guess what’s unclear to me is how far you want to take this idea. Is it a regular Star Wars game with just a hint of J&tP flavour, in which case you could probably get away with making a few raw Presence rolls for performing, or do you want to commit to the J&tP part in a Star Wars setting?

If you can't find a copy, let me know, I think I might still have one around here.

5 minutes ago, nameless ronin said:

Is it a regular Star Wars game with just a hint of J&tP flavour

Oh yeah, still very much Star Wars. It's just that instead of smuggling and running guns and doing stuff for the Rebels (well, the Republic since we're playing just before E7), it's hoping from planet to planet trying to land a gig, make some money and get stinking rich and famous along the way. I only brought up Josie as a point of cultural reference for you guys.

We're still figuring out things ourselves - we've only got one game under our belts so far.

8 minutes ago, Quelthan said:

If you can't find a copy, let me know, I think I might still have one around here.

Found a PDF online, so I'm good! Actually it looks like a fun conversion. From the quick skim I did, they really did nail the Jem/Josie/Jabberjaw ascetic.

Glad I remembered it then

Mechanics for pyrotechnics.

Cool is for the Drummer.

Manager is Negotiation and Deception.

Sounds like a lot of fun, mostly I would give players the choice of skill they are using to perform.

”I want to climb the speaker stack and leap off onto the crowd to surf, whilst shredding it on the solo”

“Ok that’s an Average Athletics with two upgrades”

”Whilst she is shredding and crowd surfing I’m downing a bottle of cheap correlian whiskey whilst the crowd cheer me on”

”the whole bottle? That’s a Hard Resilience”

I actually thought about this a while ago (a PC's sister turned out to be part of a band, and ideas were discussed), and I vaguely decided I would go with whatever skill fit what they were trying to accomplish. If you're just trying to get the crowd into the show, that'd be Charm (or, for particularly aggressive musical stylings, Coercion); Deception for using the song as a distraction for something else; Coordination for determining quality of manual dexterity-based techniques; Computers for determining quality of computer-heavy instruments or production (and working the soundboard); Athletics for epic-length sets; Mechanics for roadies to set things up quickly or under trying circumstances, or repair malfunctioning gear; etc.

If I was running a whole game, I might create some custom talents (giving boosts and/or upgrades for specific instruments, alternate characteristics for skills for particular uses, etc.), either as part of a universal spec everyone would get for free, or just as independent talents that could be bought sans specialization, a la Genesys or the rules for battle scars in Fields of Battle.

9 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

Mechanics for pyrotechnics.

I totally didn't think about the Pyro. Better not get a despair, you might have a Great White incident on your hands.

Also, hopefully someone has the negotiation skill to handle all the merch sales. Later down the road not sop much, but early on in their careers, it would probably be like how wrestlers worked the crowd before and after the matches. Mick Folley has tons of stories about trying to move Cactus Jack and Dude Love shirts at the indy show circuit.

2 minutes ago, coyote6 said:

If I was running a whole game, I might with some custom talents (giving boosts and/or upgrades for specific instruments, alternate characteristics for skills for particular uses, etc.), either as part of a universal spec everyone would get for free, or just as independent talents

Oooh, I like that. A custom tree for free that lives outside of the tree buying process proper. I might have to grab my Genesis book and all the relevant Wars books with Talking in it, and lash something together. We might not use the tree, but as a exercise, it might be kind of fun.

Ooh, everyone’s instruments are disguised weapons!

Guitar is a rifle, Flame projector or vibro axe

Drumsticks are phase knives

microphone is a Lightsaber or pistol

trombone is a grenade launcher

keyboard is actually a remote Comms station for controlling flying security droids and transmission of encrypted messages

For the custom universal tree you could probably take the Commodore structure and swap out so the 4 columns are:

Engineering and setup, so fixing all the gear and knowing how to setup everything properly

Playing an instrument, so actually being good at an instrument and making a good song

Performence, being awesome on stage, getting the crowd wound up, but also off stage at pr events etc.

Management, selling merch, making deals with labels/advertising companies, booking venues and transport ect.

I'm getting this vibe...

2 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

Ooh, everyone’s instruments are disguised weapons!

I saw that movie...Once Upon a Time in Mexico...that would be a great campaign

7 hours ago, Desslok said:

if your players were in a rock band, what rolls would you ask for, performance wise.

I'd do something like coyote's suggestion: add a relevant Performance skill, plus perhaps the Entertainer spec for free, and give XP separate from the normal pool for use on that skill/set of skills plus the spec.

14 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

For the custom universal tree you could probably take the Commodore structure and swap out so the 4 columns are:

Okay, here is my very, very rough draft. Following the Commodore layout is a good idea, so four straight shots to the bottom (undecided if I'd link them at the bottom. Probably not):

PLAY COLUMN -
Tier #1: Music Lessons
The skill to play the chosen instrument becomes career skill (if the skill is already a already career skill, then pick a backup instrument skill)

Tier #2: Goodnight Coruscant!
Remove a Black Die from your performance

Tier #3: It's not a mistake, it's improvisation
If a bandmate fails their roll, spend 1 strain as an incidental to assist the next bandmate

Tier #4: Rock you like a Hurricane
As an incidental action, flip a Destiny Point to remove a despair.

Tier #5: Living on a Prayer
Once per session, may reroll any 1 Play Instrument roll

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

MECHANICAL COLUMN -
Tier #1: Sound Check
When rolling against any set up rolls, remove one black die

Tier #2: Tune the instruments
When repairing/maintaining instruments, add a blue die to mechanics rolls

Tier #3: ???
Out of ideas here.

Tier #4: I Got This
Once per session, may reroll any one band-related maintenance related roll

Tier #5: Awesome Pyrotechnics
Once per session, may take an Awesome Pyro action, make a hard mechanics check to upgrade performance for all bandmates once for one roll

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

MERCH COLUMN -
Tier #1: Band Shirts!
For each gig completed, gain 100 credits

Tier #2: Physical Media!
For each gig completed, gain 100 credits

Tier #3: That's Quality Stuff, Kid
When buying merch, suffer 2 strain to reduce cost -20%

Tier #4: You know you want this
When selling merch, gain 10% more credits

Tier #5: ???
Yeah, I'm out of ideas here too

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

INTERACT WITH FANS COLUMN -
Tier #1 Songwriting 101
When writing songs or composing music, add a blue die to songwriting rolls

Tier #2: The Show Must Go On
May decrease the difficulty of stage fight related fear rolls by one

Tier #3: On the Cover of the Rolling Stone
When doing interviews or interacting with the public, add a blue die to appropriate rolls

Tier #4: Backstage Groupies
Suffer two strain to upgrade a stamina checks when partying

Tier #5: No Brown M&Ms
+3 increase when earning Fame on the fame track.

I don't think there should be any spillage over into the mainsteam, non-musician trees, aside from making one skill a career skill. Which, at worse would be a 25 point savings, assuming the players decided to abuse it by coming up with non-band uses. Any other table, you might have to look closely at if that's abuseable. My folks? Not a chance. Otherwise, it looks pretty balanced at first pass. I'll sleep on it and see if I feel the same tomorrow.

2 hours ago, whafrog said:

give XP separate from the normal pool for use on that skill/set of skills plus the spec.

Oooh, I like that. Perhaps link it to the tentative Fame Track, if we wind up going with that.

4 hours ago, Quelthan said:

I'm getting this vibe...

Really, I see it more like. . . .

How can you go wrong with "Awesome" exploding from Lando's crotch?

5 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

Guitar is a rifle, Flame projector or vibro axe

So . . . the Doof Warrior?

Love the spec. The names are fantastic.

Bump “I got This” and “Awesome Pyrotechnics” up one tier, then put Dedication at the bottom, but not linked to Awesome Pyrotechnics. Instead link it sideways to the “Living on a Prayer” talent, after all this is the babd member spec so everyone should be playing an instrument.

Merch T5 Talent

Viral Holovid Baby!: Once per session when negotiating a deal for the band flip a Destiny Point to add Success to the check equal to Charm

As first I didnt like the idea of adding a dedication - it seemed kind of cheap to add it to the free tree, but the idea of linking it sideways at the bottom - that's a large enough cost that I think I'm okay with it. Consider it done!

6 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

Love the spec. The names are fantastic.

And no, I was not listening to the Eighties Channel on Sirius when writing up the tree. In no way did Bon Jovi or Scorpions come up in the rotation. Why do you ask?

Took to much strain and blew your voice?

Deceit to lipsync.

Also works for the very charming frontbeing that hasn't picked up the right skills yet.

Funny thing!

just for the initial though of keeping it RAW-ish

Vocals: Charm on songs that work with the character or deception on every song that is more against the character (like a blues singer trying to go all heavy metall, or a opera-sing trying to go all "Backstreet Boy")

Synthesizer, Keyboardish instruments - Computer

Guitar, Bass and equals - Skullduggery let ya fingers fly Baby!

Drums - Cool for rythm, and Meele for solos

Flutes, Trumpet, Saxophone - Resilence you need to keep your breath!

Dancer - Coordination

Pyro, light and soundmangament - mechanics and computer

Songwriting - The most important Task (if they not only doing the tribut band thing) A hard Knowledge(which kind is depending on the theme of the song) skill check, adding boosts if the song is about something that really interest the crowd or is about the adventures the guys already had.

I love the idea for Melee for drums. That gives me a big smile.

9 hours ago, Desslok said:

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

MECHANICAL COLUMN -
Tier #1: Sound Check
When rolling against any set up rolls, remove one black die

Tier #2: Tune the instruments
When repairing/maintaining instruments, add a blue die to mechanics rolls

Tier #3: ??? - Tune it up - really good
When sucessfully repairing/maintaining instruments - you can spend 2 Advatages to add on Triumph to the instrument user during the gig-encounter

Tier #4: I Got This
Once per session, may reroll any one band-related maintenance related roll

Tier #5: Awesome Pyrotechnics
Once per session, may take an Awesome Pyro action, make a hard mechanics check to upgrade performance for all bandmates once for one roll

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

MERCH COLUMN -
Tier #1: Band Shirts!
For each gig completed, gain 100 credits

Tier #2: Physical Media!
For each gig completed, gain 100 credits

Tier #3: That's Quality Stuff, Kid
When buying merch, suffer 2 strain to reduce cost -20%

Tier #4: You know you want this
When selling merch, gain 10% more credits

Tier #5: ??? - Tell your Friends! They want it!
When selling merch, you may spend a Triumph to increase your total credit income by 200%

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

INTERACT WITH FANS COLUMN -
Tier #1 Songwriting 101
When writing songs or composing music, add a blue die to songwriting rolls

Tier #2: The Show Must Go On
May decrease the difficulty of stage fight related fear rolls by one

Tier #3: On the Cover of the Rolling St(ar)
When doing interviews or interacting with the public, add a blue die to appropriate rolls

Tier #4: Backstage Groupies
Suffer two strain to upgrade a stamina checks when partying

Tier #5: No Brown M&Ms
+3 increase when earning Fame on the fame track.

here some ideas for the not RAW-ish , where you were out of them ^^