Terrinoth... still On the boat

By RedJediKnight, in Genesys

2 hours ago, Dave69 said:

GAMA is just way for game company staff to go hangout with their buddies in Vegas.

Interesting rant but you are significantly misinformed in regards to GAMA and how businesses work. I have been to GAMA, in a previous life, when I used to manage a FLGS. While there is a bit of truth in what you say about hanging with buddies in the evenings, it is first and foremost a trade show. Games stores and distributors can get hands on product, just like car, gun, or electronics trade shows. When I went, Magic the Gathering had just been announced as being "in development". Shortly before the show, our store ordered a few boxes of decks and booster of this unknown trading card game. We had the opportunity of play demos of the game at GAMA and immediately ordered dozens of cases of each, which was about a x100 increase in our initial order (it wasn't enough). GAMA gives retailers and distributors the ability to do more then judge a product buy is cover or from a short blurb in a press release.

As far as Amazon goes, the vast majority those that shop on Amazon are "normal" (aka banal) people. RPG's sales are insignificant through them compared to hands-on at the FLGS.Its one thing to buy a clock or a book from Amazon but for many gamers, its the ability to get hands on that counts. This gives the opportunity to judge quality and content of a product first hand. This is especially true if deciding to invest in major supplemental book, let alone an unknown rule system. The majority of gamers, D&D players, and roleplayers buy from their FLGS not just so these stores stay in business but because they can see the product for themselves. Game publishers are a business and, regardless of how much they love the industry and their games, will do what sells the most games. If Amazon gives them the vast majority of sales, then that will be their focus and GAMA will fade away. The reason that GAMA has been persisting for well beyond 30 years it because it is a successful method of getting their products sold.

Regarding Star Wars books that are still "on the boat". At least one of their books had a shipping incident and the initial print run was lost. This really set back their time line. This was not intentional and cost them dearly.

All companies, gaming and otherwise, are in the business to take your money and leave you with product (or services). They are not going to purposefully screw their customers (yes, a very few exceptions exist) because that means they will sell less product. Sometimes in order to maximize sales, they will stagger releases on new items. This is the same reason that film studios move release dates. If they flood the market with too much product, their customer won't be able to buy everything which affects their bottom line. This does not warrant wild, unfounded speculation and unsupported assumptions on your part. Ultimately, Paizo and others are not giving B.S. answers. They are giving you as accurate information as they can. Its unfortunate that products don't come out as fast as we would like but that's the nature of the gaming beast.

1 hour ago, lyinggod said:

When I went, Magic the Gathering had just been announced as being "in development".

Did you also meet Moses at GAMA that year? I heard him and Sun Tzu had an epic game of Go. ;)

2 hours ago, ElderKoala said:

Did you also meet Moses at GAMA that year? I heard him and Sun Tzu had an epic game of Go. ;)

That Go game ran late into the night but during the show he had a booth with the In Nomine RPG that he was supporting. It went over well from what I saw. :P

Sun Tzu was walking the show, talking up an early draft of L5R :ph34r: . I remember thinking it was a rip off Oriental Adventures but when I saw it wasn’t based on D&D, I realized it had the potential of being a fun, playable game. It turned out to be very much so (not counting that D&D travesty that came out later).

I do not think it is wild speculation to assume that two Star Wars book Cypher and Masks and Unlimited Power which according to the FFG site have been on the boat since 12/21. Other Star Wars supplements that were reprints printed 1 month after are now shipping leads me to believe the 2 books are either in there warehouse or in customs which I would doubt sincerely. Secondly you danced around the point. When Amazon who is a bigger buyer than any distributer for Paizo and Wizards the two biggest Rpgs treats its customers better than sales staff from FFG and Distributers it seems odd to me. The point you made about game store sales is totally inaccurate. Wizards and Paizo sell more through Amazon than they do distributers and hence game stores. I have seen that game section in said stores shrink not grow. I think you may be the one speculating. Distributers are around to keep game stores around. Said games stores sell things like comics and Magic to survive. So with shrinking board and Rpg sections in the game stores I have seen, you are saying that they sell more to distributers than Amazon you are mistaken. Maybe 80s or 90s not now. If Amazon was smart they would simply buy Alliance and be the source. I think they have not because they have not seen the money in it yet.

Also if you are saying a shipment was lost, that goes to my point about an incompetent distribution manager. Also if you are telling me that you were at GAMA in the 90s what you said maybe true. It is not in 2018. Board and rpg sections are shrinking not growing in local stores. Based on your comments about losing shipments you may work or know some folks at FFG. They may sell more through distributers than Amazon, but Paizo and Wizards do not. Also Paizo did not say anything at all. They know and I know they sell more through Amazon than through distributer.

So... What some of you are saying is...

That these books are actually being held hostage by sneaky, book stealing goblins till such a time comes when they are finally paid the ransom that will then see these books released from their stinky goblin prisons... ?

8 hours ago, Dave69 said:

f you are saying a shipment was lost, that goes to my point about an incompetent distribution manager

Specifically, the freighter company that was transporting several hundred tons of product from the Chinese manufacturers to the U.S. of Self Righteousness (I live here) went out of business. The ships immediately returned to home port (not the US) and much of what they were hauling vanished to include FFG books. The books required reprinting which takes time and sufficient funds. So, if you wish to blame FFG for events far beyond their control....

Perhaps D&D and clones do sell better through Amazon but the better games such a Genesys and SW (and hundreds of others) require a more hands evaluation to get the games full measure. Unfortunately, quantity rarely = quality and getting people to buy into better RPGs requires more then a short paragraph on Amazon. RPG diversity in our FLGS is shrinking and we all need to do our part to direct people there, instead of online, to turn the tide. Vitriolic attacks on game companies (or anyone else) benefits no one. This is the reality of life and getting bent out of shape over it only gives you heart burn.

I would say that FFG should be able to say exactly where those shipments are. If they were lost say that. Most would say ok and move on. Instead they say nothing and when you call to inquire they say hey you are just a customer. Since I would assume that FFG would like to grow the Genesys and Star Wars rpg they would have better customer relations. When Wizards/Hasbro has friendly sales and customer service staff than FFG that should be viewed as problem. Paizo staff are regularly on their forums FFG are not. Maybe D&D5e, Pathfinder, and Starfinder are doing better is their staff actively engage their customer base and try to grow the game. FFG staff do not seem to be. They have customers like lyinggod do it. I am saying they/FFG should do their part. As far as me; as I said in the initial post the only reason the local store orders FFG rpg stuff is me. They would not have on their own. So I do support FFG games and local stores. I just do not want to be treated like an annoyance when I call to see where Cyphers and Masks and Unlimited power are since they were on the boat since 12/21.

Terrinoth is on track for April release so I would not count it as late yet.

Edited by Dave69

Hmm...it's March. April is around the corner. Sounds good to me!

We need to roll some dices for this.

Erm, where's the carrier razorwing (it couldn't be a pigeon) bringing us the dices ?

What's that, so, erm, your saying it's been eaten? By a dragon?

That wouldn't be the same dragon carrying the books would it?

But what if it had razorwing pox? That could down the dragon.

Er, this might take a little longer than anticipated......

Edited by Watercolour Dragon
I know it's dice, dices sounds more fantasy :)

Row, row, row your boat,
Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Terrinoth is but a dream.

maxresdefault.jpg

Realms of Terrinoth time On the Boat : 54+ days;
Unlimited Power time On the Boat : 96+ days.

Realms of Terrinoth total production time: 77+ days;
Unlimited Power total production time: 186+ days.

Realms of Terrinoth preview articles to-date: 2;
Unlimited Power preview articles to-date: 0.

Realms of Terrinoth official release goal: Q2 2018;
Unlimited Power official release goal: Q2 2018.

Current calendar quarter: Q1 2018.

While I can empathize with those who want this book as soon as possible... come on, people :) . The average production time (without major snafus) for a Star Wars RPG book is right around 136 days, and that's for books that are much smaller than Terrinoth and have to go through third-party approvals for just about everything. It hasn't even been 100 days yet, for crying out loud :P !

Edited by Absol197

I'm also thinking it may not be on the 'lost' boat mentioned- it could be being made closer to home and not literally 'on a boat' ....

14 hours ago, Absol197 said:

Realms of Terrinoth time On the Boat : 54+ days;
Unlimited Power time On the Boat : 96+ days.

Realms of Terrinoth total production time: 77+ days;
Unlimited Power total production time: 186+ days.

Realms of Terrinoth preview articles to-date: 2;
Unlimited Power preview articles to-date: 0.

Realms of Terrinoth official release goal: Q2 2018;
Unlimited Power official release goal: Q2 2018.

Current calendar quarter: Q1 2018.

While I can empathize with those who want this book as soon as possible... come on, people :) . The average production time (without major snafus) for a Star Wars RPG book is right around 136 days, and that's for books that are much smaller than Terrinoth and have to go through third-party approvals for just about everything. It hasn't even been 100 days yet, for crying out loud :P !

Math-Fu is strong in you! :lol:

18 hours ago, Absol197 said:

Realms of Terrinoth time On the Boat : 54+ days;
Unlimited Power time On the Boat : 96+ days.

Realms of Terrinoth total production time: 77+ days;
Unlimited Power total production time: 186+ days.

Realms of Terrinoth preview articles to-date: 2;
Unlimited Power preview articles to-date: 0.

Realms of Terrinoth official release goal: Q2 2018;
Unlimited Power official release goal: Q2 2018.

Current calendar quarter: Q1 2018.

While I can empathize with those who want this book as soon as possible... come on, people :) . The average production time (without major snafus) for a Star Wars RPG book is right around 136 days, and that's for books that are much smaller than Terrinoth and have to go through third-party approvals for just about everything. It hasn't even been 100 days yet, for crying out loud :P !

To be fair there is another factor in there; Realms of Terirnoth doesn't need to go through LFL approval.

I mentioned that, didn't I :huh: ?

18 hours ago, Absol197 said:

While I can empathize with those who want this book as soon as possible... come on, people :) . The average production time (without major snafus) for a Star Wars RPG book is right around 136 days, and that's for books that are much smaller than Terrinoth and have to go through third-party approvals for just about everything . It hasn't even been 100 days yet, for crying out loud :P !

1 minute ago, Absol197 said:

I mentioned that, didn't I :huh: ?

Missed that, my bad.

2 hours ago, DarthGM said:

To be fair there is another factor in there; Realms of Terirnoth doesn't need to go through LFL approval.

Since TLJ LFL approval is worth nothing! :lol: ...unless Dave Filoni has any say in it! :)

58 minutes ago, DarthDude said:

Since TLJ LFL approval is worth nothing! :lol: ...unless Dave Filoni has any say in it! :)

Concept for a movie: Kevin James. Zookeeper. Have you seen this one? Yes. Good. Ready? In space. Chewbacca and the Millenium Falcon are the traveling Petting Zoo! We can use those penguin things from TLJ!

"I love it. Sold."

^ A synopsis of the current Darth Mouse quality control process.

Or, talking of approvals, maybe the dragons have delayed it: misrepresented again, always the baddies....

8 hours ago, Watercolour Dragon said:

Or, talking of approvals, maybe the dragons have delayed it: misrepresented again, always the baddies....

I know, right?

My hype would be off the scale right now (pun... exists?) if we had confirmation that this book would have dragons as good guys and a playable species that didn't diminish their abilities to do it.

Alas, it appears they've been reduced to the same role they always hold: villain and giant XP piñata.

1 hour ago, Absol197 said:

I know, right?

My hype would be off the scale right now (pun... exists?) if we had confirmation that this book would have dragons as good guys and a playable species that didn't diminish their abilities to do it.

Alas, it appears they've been reduced to the same role they always hold: villain and giant XP piñata.

I think that's the best part of Genesys. With a little work and creativity, you could take something like the Drakes from FantasyCraft and drop it into a Crime Noir. Detective Scales McDragonpants, NYPD.

2 minutes ago, ElderKoala said:

I think that's the best part of Genesys. With a little work and creativity, you could take something like the Drakes from FantasyCraft and drop it into a Crime Noir. Detective Scales McDragonpants, NYPD.

I've been trying to come up with a version of the dragons from my personal setting that will work thematically and still be playable alongside non-dragons, but I've been unsuccessful so far :( . But Detective Scales McDragonpants is not too far off from the things they normally do :D !

FantasyCraft did it well. (I dropped Pathfinder and D&D after I got tired of the Damage per Round simulator). Could they fly and had natural weapons? Sure. But they were also large. From experience, being large SUCKS. You are LITERALLY Ferdinand in the Festival of Flowers / Village scene. Flanking? Everyone is. Even enemies who don't mean to flank you, flank you.

49 minutes ago, ElderKoala said:

FantasyCraft did it well. (I dropped Pathfinder and D&D after I got tired of the Damage per Round simulator). Could they fly and had natural weapons? Sure. But they were also large. From experience, being large SUCKS. You are LITERALLY Ferdinand in the Festival of Flowers / Village scene. Flanking? Everyone is. Even enemies who don't mean to flank you, flank you.

Fantasy Craft did a lot well that so many don't consider. Making playable species of Drakes, Treants, Goblins, etc... And that they functioned well was pretty amazing.