20 hours ago, Weatsop said:

Remember you carry over all but one of your suppression, turn to turn, with one third being lost as you start your activation. If I stack up 3 points on a unit even at the bottom of the turn, it'll start its activation with 2, and have a 44% chance to panic, and will very likely to be at least suppressed.

After the first turn, pretty much any trooper unit the enemy cares about will be suppressed. You'd need to burn a whole turn just to remove a single suppression marker, and if you have two you can only run away.

Honestly, if that's the situation then my opinion of the game declines sharply.

Sorry to hear, but that's how she is

8 hours ago, bageldrone said:

Someone early on quoted ffg as the models being 32-34mm scale. The models aren't this scale, they're 32-34mm tall which makes them 28mm scale. Scale is measured from eye level to feet in models.

40k is 28mm I thought. And they are WAY bigger then an IG?

I think in all the talk of how op panic and supression are people are forgetting the importance of generals like darth who produce an 18” radius of immune to supression completely or Luke who triples the units panic resilience.

Also all the talk of them running off board is forgetting how when supressed you make a single move only. So even a speed 2 move towards the board edge means you have to be quite close.

Given those two factors I think if your stuff is running off the board turn 1 it’s because you have allowed it to happen

lets remember too that you get 2-3 units of upgraded infantry for the points of an ATST so if it seems powerful... it should

21 hours ago, guest450670 said:

Wow, really? What were you going in expecting, lol

I wasn't trying to be critical of the game. I guess all the zoomed in pictures made me think they were going to bigger or maybe Sorastro has tiny hands. ?

Also I think my opponent had excellent rally roles.

( @Sorastro and everyone else my comment was ment to be humor and not a personal attack. Your work is amazing I can't wait for Darth)

6 hours ago, NukeMaster said:

I wasn't trying to be critical of the game. I guess all the zoomed in pictures made me think they were going to bigger or maybe Sorastro has tiny hands. ?

Also I think my opponent had excellent rally roles.

( @Sorastro and everyone else my comment was ment to be humor and not a personal attack. Your work is amazing I can't wait for Darth)

Ha ha - no worries! I often hear that the minis I paint appear smaller in real life than they do on video. I'm going to complete the Vader video today

1 hour ago, Sorastro said:

Ha ha - no worries! I often hear that the minis I paint appear smaller in real life than they do on video. I'm going to complete the Vader video today

Maybe do a little size comparison with your hands and some wide spread known miniatures. Space Marines, Blood Bowl Orcs etc. So people see you hand size #scnr

Im more disappointed with Sorastros hands scale tbh.

16 hours ago, beefcake4000 said:

I think in all the talk of how op panic and supression are people are forgetting the importance of generals like darth who produce an 18” radius of immune to supression completely or Luke who triples the units panic resilience.

Also all the talk of them running off board is forgetting how when supressed you make a single move only. So even a speed 2 move towards the board edge means you have to be quite close.

Given those two factors I think if your stuff is running off the board turn 1 it’s because you have allowed it to happen

lets remember too that you get 2-3 units of upgraded infantry for the points of an ATST so if it seems powerful... it should

Just to be clear, as there are a lot of people out there who are new to the system, I'm pretty sure that people within 18" of Vader are not immune to suppression. Rather, they are immune to panic.

I also realized that Vader is pretty difficult to fully utilize. (I know that has been said on the forums plenty of times but I have to fail for myself before I learn somethings)

You can't just put a lot of points on him and expect he's going to kill everything for you.

If you want to get the most milage out of Master of the Force you'll want Force Reflexes. I was hoping to do all sorts of crazy things with Force Pull and just never had the opportunity.

I really think he will do better in an object game where he can campout somewhere.

2 hours ago, kac said:

Just to be clear, as there are a lot of people out there who are new to the system, I'm pretty sure that people within 18" of Vader are not immune to suppression. Rather, they are immune to panic.

Thanks for that clarification. Re reading that section I see what you mean, it jumps around all over the place. So the commander benefit only applies to panic.

So Darth cant be supressed but his troopers nearby can be supressed by never panicked.

4 hours ago, beefcake4000 said:

Thanks for that clarification. Re reading that section I see what you mean, it jumps around all over the place. So the commander benefit only applies to panic.

So Darth cant be supressed but his troopers nearby can be supressed by never panicked.

Yep, that's right.

And when he dies, they all run.

Thinking about it, Leia is going to be vital for Rebels (because removing 2 suppression is huge). And range 4 weapons, as mentioned above, are very important, because there will be plenty of times you can't afford to move. That is, you'll only have one action really often.

Weapons that need a recover action to work (unintuitively?) become even worse. If you take a recover action and have any suppression at all, that is *all* you can do that turn. If you're stuck under fire, and don't want to be suppressed, you can't do much but stand there and keep getting shot, and hope you get lucky in your rally roll. Better off at least shooting back with the weapons you have, or moving out of LOS to recover.

So DLT19 forever, and perhaps the odd ion rifle as effectively a one-shot.

My thoughts too wheat. It’s any infantry weapon that exhausts has little value to me at the moment

I'm inclined to agree, and think actual experience is only going to strengthen that opinion. We may see an upgrade of some kind (beit a "Loader" model, some equipment, or support unit effect) to help offset the exhaust effect in some way.

10 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I'm inclined to agree, and think actual experience is only going to strengthen that opinion. We may see an upgrade of some kind (beit a "Loader" model, some equipment, or support unit effect) to help offset the exhaust effect in some way.

Vader's free actions are pretty great, in that context. Stormtroopers with a rocket launcher can expect to put 3 or even 4 damage on a vehicle (assuming range 3 so the grunts can help out). Vader-reload and fire again in the next turn could be good. That's a very powerful anti-vehicle weapon if you can get two shots off early. But then... pretty suck after that.

Really think I'll DLT and be done with it.

Still, I'll will have to play properly with the proper rules. More vehicles = more value to up-front anti-vehicle damage, and I'm really looking at an ion or two in my rebel force to help against what I reckon will be an now-inevitable ATST. But I think Rebel infantry are going to work better if they can get Leia in charge. Dunno. Order of activation is going to be tricky. Excited to try it out!

4 hours ago, Weatsop said:

Vader's free actions are pretty great, in that context. Stormtroopers with a rocket launcher can expect to put 3 or even 4 damage on a vehicle (assuming range 3 so the grunts can help out). Vader-reload and fire again in the next turn could be good. That's a very powerful anti-vehicle weapon if you can get two shots off early. But then... pretty suck after that.

Really think I'll DLT and be done with it.

Still, I'll will have to play properly with the proper rules. More vehicles = more value to up-front anti-vehicle damage, and I'm really looking at an ion or two in my rebel force to help against what I reckon will be an now-inevitable ATST. But I think Rebel infantry are going to work better if they can get Leia in charge. Dunno. Order of activation is going to be tricky. Excited to try it out!

Does vader help the troopers? Is that his card you’re talking about that gives an extra action? I like Vader’s personal free reload ability too so he can keep pouring out the force powers.

I think the problem with the atst at the moment is that trying to fit that AND Vader is tricky. Doesn’t leave much else! Easier for Rebs to take a bit of everything. Though I guess it dies way faster

5 minutes ago, beefcake4000 said:

Does vader help the troopers? Is that his card you’re talking about that gives an extra action? I like Vader’s personal free reload ability too so he can keep pouring out the force powers.

I think the problem with the atst at the moment is that trying to fit that AND Vader is tricky. Doesn’t leave much else! Easier for Rebs to take a bit of everything. Though I guess it dies way faster

New ways to motivate them. It's one of Vader's command cards. It lets the troopers gain an extra action at the cost of a wound.

16 minutes ago, Orcdruid said:

New ways to motivate them. It's one of Vader's command cards. It lets the troopers gain an extra action at the cost of a wound.

Yeah, it's sweet. Luke has "two-trooper-units get their activation and dodge", which I used to think was better. In a big game, though (where two dead doods don't matter so much) I reckon Vader's might be the better one now.

Leia's command to "drop a wound (roughly) on three enemy units, plus activate herself" has worked pretty nicely in proxy. She gets to activate early, drop dodge on a couple of folk, then bombard the competition. Sweet activation, that.

22 minutes ago, beefcake4000 said:

I think the problem with the atst at the moment is that trying to fit that AND Vader is tricky. Doesn’t leave much else! Easier for Rebs to take a bit of everything. Though I guess it dies way faster

For the record, my tentative Imperial list is:

• Vader (reflexes, caber toss saber throw, optional push);
• ATST (with Weiss and all the guns);
• three minimum squads of stormies with DLTs;
• speeder bikes with long range comms.

Ten points left for grenades, probably. Could ditch the bikes or the DLTs (and other optionals) to bring Veers, or drop the DLTs for a second squad of bikes.

Worst-case-infantry mode would be:

• Vader
• ATST
• 3 bare min units of storm (vanilla snow are much better, IMO, if you can afford them in dollars)
• two squads of speeder bikes, no comms.

Finally got around to playing around on TTS. Learned some things myself.

• I agree with the thread earlier, exhaustible weapons are useless past one shot. In fact, exhaustible upgrades of any kind may be useless without an ability like Vader's. We should pray for extra ammo, or engineers dropping ammo packs or the "ammo crate" objective soon.
• Suppression is bad, but not as bad as some people make it sound. While it does restrict recovery and often prevents your extra tokens, most of the time you can just naturally let it remove, and if you're in a thick of a battle and a lot of units are shooting at one guy, the unit will probably crumple first. But, you do have a distinct option for some strategic suppression early if you use like, DLT snipers and some wise/lucky activations.
• There's some exceptions to this. One is Master of Evil, it is just awful for the opposing player. Ran a nearly full squad of rebel troops right off the edge. My fault for hugging that crater so close, but this is because of my second point, Harsh Conditions is exactly what it says. You want to hug cover anyway, but this means you really need to make your unit leaders hug it. Could really run you into problems with that strategic suppression if you don't watch where your terrain is set up.
• AT-RT flamethrower is great, cleaned an entire unit of Snowtroopers with it. Snowtroopers with it will be way scarier than with Ion Disruptors.
• Pierce is great
• In my opinion, Blast is better. Cover can get real annoying when you're on swingy dice and have to just lose some of your hit results. Concussion grenades are so worth it, so many times when I went "****, this is one of the guys with Impact". Also, always remember which unit has which grenades.
• Vader is definitely worth his points. While obviously this was my first experience actually playing around with the game, Vader did most of the work on the Imperial side. Relentless is real good, and Force Choke also useful. I agree that if you don't take Saber Throw and Force Reflexes, you're doing it wrong. ("shot" quite a few of my own dudes hitting Vader with Deflect up)
• Speeder is amazing. The fact you almost never have to worry about making a movement and can ignore so much terrain means they have the freedom to actually utilize stuff like the Pivot, or almost always have freedom to aim and shoot. Exhaustible upgrades on Speeder (or any other compulsory moves if they show up) might actually work.

On 14/03/2018 at 3:08 PM, LunarSol said:

What I took away from the demo was that suppression is the game's secret sauce. It makes activation order more interesting than the usual "which model do I think I'll lose if I don't activate it first" and makes you consider your options a little more evenly as you have to consider that a "safe" unit might still find themselves suppressed if you don't take the opportunity to activate them early. It also has an interesting influence on the game in the way it limits the value of focused fire. It's often better to spread damage around and reduce enemy numbers and actions rather than wiping them to the man both because they lose effectiveness and because its harder to kill a suppressed unit, which is more interesting than the way game's generally reward target priority. It also does create something of an assassination mechanic, where taking out the enemy commander can trigger flight in units fairly easily.

When I played, the suppression mechanic was really the thing that stood out as something more inspired and innovative. Nothing about the suppression mechanic itself is super unique, mind you, but the way it interacts with other rules in the system makes it the most important rule in the book for me.

Exactly, well said. Also, it means that moving troopers out of a commander's bubble is not an easy decision as they become more vulnerable. Additionally, taking a second commander is an important decision to make when list building (assuming its a trooper heavy list).