Been playing 4th with a couple of friends of mine for the last couple of weeks and wanted to throw my two cents.

4th is a fun game, no doubt about that but there are a couple of issues (minors one but still) that I'd like to point out and I hope get improved on with expansions.

-Not being able to trade with other players unless they're adjacent to you on the board doesn't make any sense, especially in a sci-fi themed game.

-Space Docks and PDFs only buildable with Construction Strategy Card. Preferred 3rd edition, spending resources to build makes more sense to me.

-I really don't like that Agendas come into play only after M.R. has been captured. I mean, I get it. Since they separated Agendas from the Strategy Cards they had to find a way to fit them in the game but this feels tacked on. Personally, I would have combines Action cards and Agendas into one deck and had the Political Strategy Card work like it did in TI3.

-The prerequisite system for the Tech cards seems to make it really easy to purchase Techs, by the end of most games I had played everyone ended up having the same Tech upgrades. There just seems to not be enough Tech upgrades to really make a difference. 3rd editions tech tree combined with the higher cost to research made buying the right upgrades really matter and I miss that.

-Tech upgrades that exhaust? That makes no sense...

-Upgrading individual units? Again, just doesn't make any sense to me...

-No Mechanized Units in base box?

-The new flag ship pieces look really boring looking. I was hoping they would look like one of the ships that's on the front cover.

10 hours ago, Scuro said:

Been playing 4th with a couple of friends of mine for the last couple of weeks and wanted to throw my two cents.

4th is a fun game, no doubt about that but there are a couple of issues (minors one but still) that I'd like to point out and I hope get improved on with expansions.

-Not being able to trade with other players unless they're adjacent to you on the board doesn't make any sense, especially in a sci-fi themed game.

-Space Docks and PDFs only buildable with Construction Strategy Card. Preferred 3rd edition, spending resources to build makes more sense to me.

-I really don't like that Agendas come into play only after M.R. has been captured. I mean, I get it. Since they separated Agendas from the Strategy Cards they had to find a way to fit them in the game but this feels tacked on. Personally, I would have combines Action cards and Agendas into one deck and had the Political Strategy Card work like it did in TI3.

-The prerequisite system for the Tech cards seems to make it really easy to purchase Techs, by the end of most games I had played everyone ended up having the same Tech upgrades. There just seems to not be enough Tech upgrades to really make a difference. 3rd editions tech tree combined with the higher cost to research made buying the right upgrades really matter and I miss that.

-Tech upgrades that exhaust? That makes no sense...

-Upgrading individual units? Again, just doesn't make any sense to me...

-No Mechanized Units in base box?

-The new flag ship pieces look really boring looking. I was hoping they would look like one of the ships that's on the front cover.

• Yeah that is a general problem with all 4x games. All units are military units and it doesn't account for civilian and neutral ships. Still I think it is more creative than just a different number. Take Star Trek Ascendancy where the only faction with a different Trade Agreement is the Ferengi.
• IMHO The Warsun should have been added to the Construction. Yeah I prefer Logistics but I understand making facilities static. I always thought it was wired that you could transport a PDS on a carrier.
• Well they use to not come into play at all because no one would pick 3 (unless you had Political Intrigue module in play which was a must IMHO).
• Yeah that is sort of odd to me, especially in conjection with once per game upgrades.
• The Upgrade units system is one of the better additions, I just wish they did more with that. instead it seems like they just tacked the classic upgrades to a unit (like Gen Synthis to Infantry II). I sort of wish that upgrades would change stats on more units and that units could have options other than just be a better version. If I have one criticism for unit upgrades is that they provide no tech. They are like dead end in their own tech tree. I think if you go Dreadnought II it should confer 1 Red Tech prerequisite.
• I'm working on that. But yeah I would advise don't throw away your 3rd edition stuff just yet.
• Flagships are one of the things I think can be done better (Working on that too). But yeah I do find that the peices do look a little too similar. The Flagship is a hammerhead dreadnought, and even hexagonal cruisers seem to blend in with the other ships. I liked the curved ones better, it was easier to see them as a cruiser.

"-Not being able to trade with other players unless they're adjacent to you on the board doesn't make any sense, especially in a sci-fi themed game."

Well you need a trade route, I mean as long as there isn't someone else between you and a potential trade partner, I could see a house rule to also allow blank spaces, but if someone else is inbetween, that seems realistic. I'm fine with how it is though, since it takes a whole turn to move, and generally you can't move and move again without being able to deactivate the system, but since we don't have trader ships, all seems logical to me

"-Space Docks and PDFs only buildable with Construction Strategy Card. Preferred 3rd edition, spending resources to build makes more sense to me."

I don't mind that, I do mind that I only get 5 PDS and Space Docks, if you want to really bolster a system, since you're limited to the construction card, I'd like there to be maybe twice as many.

"-I really don't like that Agendas come into play only after M.R. has been captured. I mean, I get it. Since they separated Agendas from the Strategy Cards they had to find a way to fit them in the game but this feels tacked on. Personally, I would have combines Action cards and Agendas into one deck and had the Political Strategy Card work like it did in TI3. "

I've found Agendas to be really annoying, and since they come into it usually from the 2nd or 3rd round anyway, it doesn't bother me. Especially the elect planet or player, they usually just waste time to me, I'd love to house rule that they either don't come up, or there's only 1 agenda, it normally takes ages debating it and not much comes out of it 80% of the time.

"-The prerequisite system for the Tech cards seems to make it really easy to purchase Techs, by the end of most games I had played everyone ended up having the same Tech upgrades. There just seems to not be enough Tech upgrades to really make a difference. 3rd editions tech tree combined with the higher cost to research made buying the right upgrades really matter and I miss that."

I disagree, you still need 6 resources to research a double tech, and the secondary requires 4, I never feel like I have enough tech, some are better than others but different races start with different techs too so... seems to work out for me (and getting surprised that someone has a tech when you didn't see it adds another level of drama to the game)

"-Tech upgrades that exhaust? That makes no sense..." Well they may simply be limited to a degree, I don't mind it

"-Upgrading individual units? Again, just doesn't make any sense to me..." Why not? It's a space combat game ultimately, so doing this does make a big difference in many games, moving more, having more/some capacity, makes everything really interesting, can't see anything wrong with this.

"-No Mechanized Units in base box?" I don't think they'll come back, but hey let's see, I'm a TI4 player so never used them

"-The new flag ship pieces look really boring looking. I was hoping they would look like one of the ships that's on the front cover." I love the new flagship compared to the old one, it was too tall, this one is much more like a giant battle cruiser.

But hey, each to their own. I don't really see most of these as problems just opinions on things you'd like to change, I reckon just change one or two of the rules for a game, see how it goes then decide if you prefer it better that way.

12 hours ago, Conza89 said:

...

But hey, each to their own. I don't really see most of these as problems just opinions on things you'd like to change, I reckon just change one or two of the rules for a game, see how it goes then decide if you prefer it better that way.

Nah, lets change all the rules

At least I feel like that is what I am trying to do.

"Well you need a trade route, I mean as long as there isn't someone else between you and a potential trade partner, I could see a house rule to also allow blank spaces, but if someone else is inbetween, that seems realistic. I'm fine with how it is though, since it takes a whole turn to move, and generally you can't move and move again without being able to deactivate the system, but since we don't have trader ships, all seems logical to me"

My main issue is that 3rd let you get trade with anybody from the start and now they nerfed it for, what seems to me like no real reason. Which is a running theme to my issues with 4th.

I've found Agendas to be really annoying, and since they come into it usually from the 2nd or 3rd round anyway, it doesn't bother me. Especially the elect planet or player, they usually just waste time to me, I'd love to house rule that they either don't come up, or there's only 1 agenda, it normally takes ages debating it and not much comes out of it 80% of the time.

I would think then that this would be worse for you then, since before you had to use a strategy card to pop an agenda, but now it's for sure 2 Agendas at the end of every turn. I just would have like it to be in the hands of the player.

I disagree, you still need 6 resources to research a double tech, and the secondary requires 4, I never feel like I have enough tech, some are better than others but different races start with different techs too so... seems to work out for me

I mean at the end of the day the prices are basically the same, my issue is that in 3rd it felt more like buying tech felt more like a hard decision since if you wanted the late game tech you had to go through the tech tree but now it's just like...eh whatever, if I don't get it now I'll get it next round.

Well they may simply be limited to a degree, I don't mind it

Again it just bothers me that I buy a tech that technically upgrades all of my units but then I'm limited to using it once per round. If you're going to do that then either nerf the ability or make it have a resource cost to use. Like the bio-weapon tech, just make it so you have to pay 3 every time you use it.

Why not? It's a space combat game ultimately, so doing this does make a big difference in many games, moving more, having more/some capacity, makes everything really interesting, can't see anything wrong with this.

Take the Type 4 Drive tech from 3rd, it upgrades Cruisers and Destroyers movement by +1. Which makes sense, if you develop an engine that works on both ships. It just seems like the only reason they have individual ship upgrades is because they simplified the tech deck to 4 techs of each color.

There are other real issues...

The trade Timing window is cumbersome and needlessly limiting. (I don't mind the adjacency requirement)

The objectives are far too easy, especially the secrets, ad being able to get 30% of the win condition from them is too much.

Tech is too easy to get in game as well.

These are my main complaints that I hope are addressed in the 1st expansion.

I'm sorry you don't feel that my complaints are real issues...that was sarcasm by the way.

-Trading in 4th I can take or leave at this point, it's probably the issue that's at the bottom of the list and only because of the adjacency requirement.

-I have to disagree about the objectives, especially with the secret objectives. The way they handled it in 3rd if you got stuck with an objective that you know you have no chance to fulfill then you were just boned and considering the expansions for 3rd, with the preliminary secret objectives, you still had the opportunity to win 3 victory points from that. But If I'm being honest, I tired of victory points in general. I'd like a variety of victory conditions, like they had in the Civilization board game (Military, Economic, Cultural, etc.)

-I agree %100 about the Tech, which is why I advocate for the tech tree but aside from that I'd like to see the techs complete reworked and the removal of unit specific tech. Bring back Hylar 5 Assault Laser with +1 for Cruisers and Destroyers and give us square cardboard chits to put on the player boards.