Which is better in your opinion? For me, snowtroopers can do some pretty useful things like “Meerkating” and stuff like that but the stormies have precise, which helps with the Rocket launcher they have. On the rebel side, I’m probably going to run the original troopers for the ion weapon and the fleet troopers for holding objectives.

Different uses think both will be in most armies.

Stormtroopers much prefer to take an aim and shoot everyturn without moving much thanks to their precise and decent heavy weapons. When in cover they can really shine with their extra rerolls and decent shooting.

While snowtroopers thanks to being able to move and shoot love popping in and out of terrain and being mobile. Think grenades would suit them well in this role too and doesn't really make them more expensive than stormies.

Considering sometimes you want to move only slightly the snowtroopers really do have an advantage in that regards as they can aim, move and then shoot while Stormtroopers can't. However getting places the double speed 2 means the Stormies are a lot quicker when needed.

Im probably looking at a 2-1 ratio.

Rebels are a bit different but dinner time calls...

When you lose an action the Snowtrooper can still move and shoot. Just my thoughts.

fleet troopers are going to be all about corner camping, and snowtroopers about meerkating. Funny thing is the more elaborate the table setup the more effective they get at shenanigans.

Pretty sure wave 2 troopers aren't going to be winning on their own though. the ranges and special weapons of the release units involved will favor having both in a force.

Fleet Troopers’ damage output is amazing, but their effectiveness is really going to depend on terrain. They’ll excel at camping near an objective as long as LoS at Range 3 is blocked (or for some other reason your opponent is disincentivized for camping at Range 3). I agree with @DarkTrooperZero, 2-1 seems the right mix.

As others have said, which unit you take will depend on your tactics.

For rebels the fleet troopers are going to be your cqb troops and objective holders. The ready keyword allows them to either dig in(dodge+standby) or be precise(aim+standby). The rebel troopers will be more all rounders.

For the imperials the snowtroopers are well suited to compliment Vader. They can provide covering fire while he advances without being outpaced as the stormtroopers would. Or when equipped with flamers they and Vader can pincer the enemy and make them chooses between the fire and the blade. Stormtroopers on the other hand are better at rushing objectives and taking down vehicles. They both work well with Veers. The snow troopers will be cheap meat shields for esteemed leader and the stormies will eat up those free aim tokens like candy.

are the flamers like the rebel walker flamer? do we know?

10 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

are the flamers like the rebel walker flamer? do we know?

We know it has the “blast” and “spray” keywords like the AT-RT. Don’t know dice or point cost.

5 hours ago, Ralgon said:

fleet troopers are going to be all about corner camping, and snowtroopers about meerkating. Funny thing is the more elaborate the table setup the more effective they get at shenanigans.

SOMEONE USED MY TERMINOLOGY!!!

Legion is new so we clearly need to start building our own obscure terminology nobody will recognise two years from now.

15 hours ago, DarkTrooperZero said:

Different uses think both will be in most armies.

Stormtroopers much prefer to take an aim and shoot everyturn without moving much thanks to their precise and decent heavy weapons. When in cover they can really shine with their extra rerolls and decent shooting.

While snowtroopers thanks to being able to move and shoot love popping in and out of terrain and being mobile. Think grenades would suit them well in this role too and doesn't really make them more expensive than stormies.

Considering sometimes you want to move only slightly the snowtroopers really do have an advantage in that regards as they can aim, move and then shoot while Stormtroopers can't. However getting places the double speed 2 means the Stormies are a lot quicker when needed.

Im probably looking at a 2-1 ratio.

Rebels are a bit different but dinner time calls...

All of this for me too. I think the Snowtrooper units are better than Stormtroopers, but Stormtroopers have brilliant heavy weapons that are very hard to leave at home. An obvious upgrade to the starter set would be a unit of Snowtroopers and an ATST, and I think that's pretty strong.

If you're going infantry-light, though, I think small units of Snowies are the way to go. They have a bad first turn, but after that it's all good.

Rebel Fleeters look awful IMO. Nimble is so strong, especially with the commanders we've got so far. Range 2 is abysmal, and Ready is just going to be way too easy to avoid. Hit surge is nice, and if they have a great heavy weapon on top of the pretty mediocre scatter gun, maybe. But probably not.

Note that I haven't actually proxied the Fleeters yet, so maybe they have hidden depths I'm missing.

10 hours ago, WAC47 said:

Fleet Troopers’ damage output is amazing, but their effectiveness is really going to depend on terrain. They’ll excel at camping near an objective as long as LoS at Range 3 is blocked (or for some other reason your opponent is disincentivized for camping at Range 3). I agree with @DarkTrooperZero, 2-1 seems the right mix.

My problem is that standby is discarded if anything shoots at them. It would be hard enough with range 3, let alone range 2.

So you're banking on a friendly map right out of the gate, and that's already too risky for me.

...but then, imagine there's a squad at a corner in, say, a corridor map, with Standby on. Perfect! So I send a unit leader and one guy around the corner. The rest stay out of sight. Do you burn your standby? So you'll kill two guys. So would have most squads in the same position. Now a second, full squad comes around the corner and you don't have standby...

Or you don't burn suppression, I take two shots at you and probably take standby off.

So at best, yes, it's something: I'm too scared to send a full squad around the corner. Buuuuuuut... meh? As a best case scenario it's a bit pooh.

Nimble keeps one guy alive *per attacker* after the first shot. Most games, that saves easily 2-3 guys per squad.

I think the downside to Snowies is their speed. Yeah they can move and shoot, but it could be difficult to keep a good amount alive.

Just now, AintNoPoser said:

I think the downside to Snowies is their speed. Yeah they can move and shoot, but it could be difficult to keep a good amount alive.

I'd rather have snowy speed to fleet trooper range... but that's another argument.

15 minutes ago, AintNoPoser said:

I think the downside to Snowies is their speed. Yeah they can move and shoot, but it could be difficult to keep a good amount alive.

Remember that they're actually moving faster than any other infantry unit *if* they're also shooting. Two one speed moves is more than a single two speed move, and they don't care about difficult terrain.

True. But they don't get an auto reroll so you will also need to aim, unless they're activated by Veers. I don't really like speed 1, but with moving and shooting does make up for it. I just don't like white die.

21 minutes ago, AintNoPoser said:

True. But they don't get an auto reroll so you will also need to aim, unless they're activated by Veers. I don't really like speed 1, but with moving and shooting does make up for it. I just don't like white die.

remembering it's only a ranged attack they can use grenades to make up for the shortfall in some cases.....

29 minutes ago, AintNoPoser said:

True. But they don't get an auto reroll so you will also need to aim, unless they're activated by Veers. I don't really like speed 1, but with moving and shooting does make up for it. I just don't like white die.

That's fair, but remember that if they're moving (e.g. to get a target into range or trying to get to an objective, which is pretty common) neither unit is aiming. Shooting still puts on suppression markers if nothing else.

And if the suppression discussion over the other thread is right (i.e. a unit is suppressed with even a single point of suppression) then Stormies are very close to being the only unit that matters. Most units will be suppressed most turns. One action that lets you move and shoot is going to be massive. Snowies will be the only infantry I care about.

12 minutes ago, Weatsop said:

That's fair, but remember that if they're moving (e.g. to get a target into range or trying to get to an objective, which is pretty common) neither unit is aiming. Shooting still puts on suppression markers if nothing else.

And if the suppression discussion over the other thread is right (i.e. a unit is suppressed with even a single point of suppression) then Stormies are very close to being the only unit that matters. Most units will be suppressed most turns. One action that lets you move and shoot is going to be massive. Snowies will be the only infantry I care about.

it's going to make imp units and their r4 attacks and anything that can throw a red split attack is massive as well, if used right. The regular trooper heavies and atst may just be enough to suppress a lot of reb forces before they even get a chance to engage.

11 hours ago, Ralgon said:

it's going to make imp units and their r4 attacks and anything that can throw a red split attack is massive as well, if used right. The regular trooper heavies and atst may just be enough to suppress a lot of reb forces before they even get a chance to engage.

Yeah, good point. The imperial heavy weapons look good.

I've only played with courage as 1 x troopers, so suppression is yet to be seen by me in the real world. I really think infantry is basically useless in those rules. A mortar on an ATST suppresses and nearly breaks a unit every turn. For 10 points.

Suppression (assuming a leader stops them breaking) leaves one single action. Range 4 will at least let you do something with it.

3 hours ago, Weatsop said:

Suppression (assuming a leader stops them breaking) leaves one single action. Range 4 will at least let you do something with it.

Range 4 is nice, but assuming you move up the table on your first turn, Range 3 covers a pretty huge chunk of the table. (36" = 6" from each players deployment zone, 18" range, 6" safe buffer. Horizontal distance certainly matters, but I've found that suppressed units are certainly more than capable of shooting most turns. What really hurts is the upgrades that need to be refreshed. It can be very difficult to get more than 1 shot out of those things.

On 3/14/2018 at 5:44 AM, Weatsop said:

Yeah, good point. The imperial heavy weapons look good.

I've only played with courage as 1 x troopers, so suppression is yet to be seen by me in the real world. I really think infantry is basically useless in those rules. A mortar on an ATST suppresses and nearly breaks a unit every turn. For 10 points.

Suppression (assuming a leader stops them breaking) leaves one single action. Range 4 will at least let you do something with it.

The mortar launcher has the additional 195 points cost of being attached to an AT-ST. So if that is all you are bringing it for you could be spending those points better.

1 hour ago, Orcdruid said:

The mortar launcher has the additional 195 points cost of being attached to an AT-ST. So if that is all you are bringing it for you could be spending those points better.

Well yeah, hahaha. More, if you're bringing an ATST, do you bring the mortar? The answer was in doubt, in my head. Now it's 10 points well spent.

No, I was just trying to illustrate the point with a simple example. Again, just off half-arsed proxies, most units had suppression most of the time*, and the times I lost Luke, from memory, most of my remaining guys would have run away. Rebels with dodge and cover (even the "free" point from suppression) are pretty hard to kill. I was also planning to use Luke to go with a bit of a flanking force, or I guess a sort of two-pronged thing. You really won't want to let infantry go it alone, though. I guess people will see when they play. Maybe I just suck.

*And that was with units who had two actions, so could more likely spare one for Recover. In the proper rules, a unit with a point of suppression can use Recover, but that's all they're doing that turn. So most people, I think, will just suck up suppression over their panic level, since the time it takes to Recover could have been spent shooting or whatever, and frankly the chances are good that something else will just shoot you again before you get a chance to make that loss of an activation worthwhile. You'd want to only recover if you think your commander is about to buy it.

Wait. Wait wait wait wait wait. The rules say:

During the “Perform Actions” step of a trooper unit’s
activation, if it has a number of suppression tokens
assigned to it that is equal to or greater than its courage
value, a player can perform only one action instead of
two (plus any number of free actions).

Does that mean, if you have suppression going in to the "performs actions" step, and DURING that step (i.e. in the first action) you use a Recover, you then get your second action too? Since now you don't have any suppression tokens. Because the test isn't the start of the step, but "during" the step? Because that would change everything.

On the other hand, you *did* have suppression tokens during the step, so... nah. Probably not.

Still though, on the OTHER other hand, I don't see how the Vader saber-toss-as-an-attack action works if the order of triggers work that strictly (i.e. I would have thought Vader's ability can't trigger a card action, and the card action makes it into an attack action only AFTER it's triggered, buuuuut no, that's not how it works. It's a card action and an attack action at the same time). So.... maybe?

9 hours ago, Weatsop said:

Still though, on the OTHER other hand, I don't see how the Vader saber-toss-as-an-attack action works if the order of triggers work that strictly (i.e. I would have thought Vader's ability can't trigger a card action, and the card action makes it into an attack action only AFTER it's triggered, buuuuut no, that's not how it works. It's a card action and an attack action at the same time). So.... maybe?

The game lacks a symbol to differentiate Attack actions from other actions on cards unfortunately. I think you have to read the last sentence of Saber Throw as a property rather than something that takes effect in the order it is written.