2 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

This is what Krayts, Mynock, etc have all been preaching. The game in its current state, if played without self-imposed handicaps, is not fun on a mechanics level, and the viable ships are not iconic.

We need an Erratageddon, or a 2.0, or a comp score system, or a format change to purge the cancer out of the game, lest it bleed players and die.

Coincidence that two community overhauls have dropped just recently? I think not. Xwing is in desperate need of a 2.0 revision.

9 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

This is what Krayts, Mynock, etc have all been preaching. The game in its current state, if played without self-imposed handicaps, is not fun on a mechanics level, and the viable ships are not iconic.

We need an Erratageddon, or a 2.0, or a comp score system, or a format change to purge the cancer out of the game, lest it bleed players and die.

Yeah. I realize I'm being really scrubby about my own limitations but man. the sheathipede is freaking awful design and balance!

2.0 or not...

I think the game could survive with a massive errata-based nerfing.

4 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Yeah. I realize I'm being really scrubby about my own limitations but man. the sheathipede is freaking awful design and balance!

Hey- look at my self- imposed limitations and weep.

- Imperial only

- 50+ points and over half of my ship count should be in identical generics

It's a miracle that I was able to build meta-relevant squads this long. Tie swarm's death didn't help. Now I'm desperately clinging to Blackout+Double Delta, hoping for a big nerfageddon.

7 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

2.0 or not...

I think the game could survive with a massive errata-based nerfing.

The game would thrive. Look at how many people show up after a nerf that pushes cancer out of the meta to your local events. Idiots like marineleaver who REEEEE about changes/claim to have a memory worse than a goldfish about changes are probably a blip on the radar in terms of population.

3 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

Hey- look at my self- imposed limitations and weep.

- Imperial only

- 50+ points and over half of my ship count should be in identical generics

It's a miracle that I was able to build meta-relevant squads this long. Tie swarm's death didn't help. Now I'm desperately clinging to Blackout+Double Delta, hoping for a big nerfageddon.

The game would thrive. Look at how many people show up after a nerf that pushes cancer out of the meta to your local events. Idiots like marineleaver who REEEEE about changes/claim to have a memory worse than a goldfish about changes are probably a blip on the radar in terms of population.

Hey. Keep it nice. I might not agree with him either, but I'm not gonna bash him without @.

Yeah I'm done though. Too many people around me like and want to play Rebel synergy bs and don't think there's anything wrong with it (technically there isn't). But there's no agreement. And I'm the odd one out.

Having a more mobile platform for crew will be nice though.

I think the Upsilon would be exceptionally better if it could take 3 crew. And it would never obsolete the Decimator.

1 minute ago, Blail Blerg said:

Hey. Keep it nice. I might not agree with him either, but I'm not gonna bash him without @.

Yeah I'm done though. Too many people around me like and want to play Rebel synergy bs and don't think there's anything wrong with it (technically there isn't). But there's no agreement. And I'm the odd one out.

Having a more mobile platform for crew will be nice though.

I think the Upsilon would be exceptionally better if it could take 3 crew. And it would never obsolete the Decimator.

I tried to organize a charity tournament back in the dark bomb-**** days of wave 11- Call it 'A Day Without Cancer', have a long banlist to stop top-meta cancer, all entry goes to charity(cchildrens cancer of some kind), I pay for the prize support out of pocket.

Is that in bad taste?

45 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

I never thought I'd say this about Xwing over some other game, but I might be at that point where eI need to stop playing.

I am exquisitely sad at the lack of support for the Lambda here lol. As to its Tier1-ness read my edit above.

They keep making ships, so. . .

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

I am particularly sad that no one is defending the Lambda's right to be relevant to this game, based primarily on how beautiful the model is.

Also the Lambda has a history of top-level play. Its been the subject of numerous studies on game-long flight pattern alone, and considerable discourse on how to beat Palpatine at all.

It was highly relevant in Wave3 as a Buzzsaw or as Vader. It was huge as a Palpatine carrier. It would US Nats as captain Yorr. In wave 7-8 or so, it was a dominant T1 as a Palpatine carrier. In wave13 its a meta choice as Yorr once again.

The poor Lambda. =(

. . .every dog has it's day. Do you really expect 100+ ships to all be equally playable all the time??

35 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

This is what Krayts, Mynock, etc have all been preaching. The game in its current state, if played without self-imposed handicaps , is not fun on a mechanics level, and the viable ships are not iconic.

We need an Erratageddon, or a 2.0, or a comp score system, or a format change to purge the cancer out of the game, lest it bleed players and die.

Do you mean not 100/6??

As in Objective-based play? Epic? Intentional-jank-listing?

Edit: Nevermind; you pretty much answered above.

2 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:

Well, the TIE Punisher is OBJECTIVELY the most beautiful ship in the game, yet it is still bad.

There is no justice in this world

Oh, see, you think that just because you haven't seen this one from the next-est wave .

2 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:

Well, the TIE Punisher is OBJECTIVELY the most beautiful ship in the game

lol

3 minutes ago, TheVeteranSergeant said:

lol

Facts are difficult things, I know. But, you just have to accept it.

7 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

I am particularly sad that no one is defending the Lambda's right to be relevant to this game, based primarily on how beautiful the model is.

Beautiful model but poor paint job IMO compared to all my other ships. The Lambda doesn’t appear to be creamy-white in ROTJ and the shading is awful.

The Lambda, to me, is a complete irrelevance to standard and epic games. I don’t take Palp and prefer small base ships. I’ve really tried to find a way to use it but have given up. In game it’s totally outclassed. The only reason I take it out is for HotAC. I don’t think the TIE Reaper will change anything for the Lambda, as it will probably still be the Palpmobile of choice, but will, hopefully, give us Imperials a nice, mid-range support ship that doesn’t fly like a brick.

Shuttle's been dead a long time. As much as I love the design, it never did belong on the battlefield.

I’m not sure why people are saying the lambda is dead when it is making cuts at Regionals, and even winning some. I know, it’s more because of Palp, but if you look up Yorr on meta-wing currently, you’ll see he’s ranked higher than even Vader.

When I first started playing I hated the Lambda after getting blown up again and again. But I took it as a challenge and started to fly with it more and more. If you really learn how to use it, it can be a really deadly blocker and one that your opponent will often underestimate.

The Doom Shuttle (OGP with just Vader crew, courier droid and a 0 pt. system) is still an amazing ace hunter and a cheap scary threat. The Palpmobile is also underrated. It's not just for carrying the emperor. The best Imp Aces players learn how to bring their shuttle into the fight and get as many points out of it as possible.

The U-wing is similar but as people have pointed out the Rebels just don't have the same board wide support crew that the Imperials have. The U-wing and Upsilon also came out in the Age of Ordnance, which is very unfriendly to the shuttle archetype. Wookies have been okay because Arc dodgers are being suppressed by auto-damage mechanics.

It depends on whether the Reaper will have support or combat focused pilot abilities. I'd bet that with it's Advanced Ailerons title that the hard red 2 turn will be its only turn maneuver. I'm also going to guess that it will be at the same price point as the Lambda based on the PS 6 pilot costing 26 points.

If we assume I'm right about the price comparison it will be a tough call for Palp carrier. Less health behind the same number of green dice. The brutal reality you have to think about is: 'can this PS 1 ship reliably survive 2 double modified Harpoon Missiles on the first round of combat?' 8 health behind 1 agility means that the answer is no. The Shuttle, for all its faults, also has the 0 stop maneuver, which can be a key tool for range controlling ordnance alpha strikes. The Reaper, on the other hand, has an ailerons title that forces it to move foreword in addition to its regular move. It's going to be bad at slow rolling just like the Striker.

It does have the evade and jam actions though. You could spring for LWF but that's 2 points that you have to take away from the real stars of your list: the aces. The Reaper also lacks the target lock action, which is actually a bit of a blow to its attack power. Generally 1 agility ships get far less mileage out of the focus action than medium or high agility ships and so are more inclined to just target lock and rely on their health for defense.

Calling it: FAQ Palp to “Large Ship Only”

3 minutes ago, SpikeSpiegel said:

Calling it: FAQ Palp to “Large Ship Only”

Possible, but unlikely unless there's like a sudden twist in playtesting at the end. I know articles aren't perfectly reliable, but I believe it says that carrying Palp is an option for the Reaper.

1 hour ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

When I first started playing I hated the Lambda after getting blown up again and again. But I took it as a challenge and started to fly with it more and more. If you really learn how to use it, it can be a really deadly blocker and one that your opponent will often underestimate.

The Doom Shuttle (OGP with just Vader crew, courier droid and a 0 pt. system) is still an amazing ace hunter and a cheap scary threat. The Palpmobile is also underrated. It's not just for carrying the emperor. The best Imp Aces players learn how to bring their shuttle into the fight and get as many points out of it as possible.

The U-wing is similar but as people have pointed out the Rebels just don't have the same board wide support crew that the Imperials have. The U-wing and Upsilon also came out in the Age of Ordnance, which is very unfriendly to the shuttle archetype. Wookies have been okay because Arc dodgers are being suppressed by auto-damage mechanics.

It depends on whether the Reaper will have support or combat focused pilot abilities. I'd bet that with it's Advanced Ailerons title that the hard red 2 turn will be its only turn maneuver. I'm also going to guess that it will be at the same price point as the Lambda based on the PS 6 pilot costing 26 points.

If we assume I'm right about the price comparison it will be a tough call for Palp carrier. Less health behind the same number of green dice. The brutal reality you have to think about is: 'can this PS 1 ship reliably survive 2 double modified Harpoon Missiles on the first round of combat?' 8 health behind 1 agility means that the answer is no. The Shuttle, for all its faults, also has the 0 stop maneuver, which can be a key tool for range controlling ordnance alpha strikes. The Reaper, on the other hand, has an ailerons title that forces it to move foreword in addition to its regular move. It's going to be bad at slow rolling just like the Striker.

It does have the evade and jam actions though. You could spring for LWF but that's 2 points that you have to take away from the real stars of your list: the aces. The Reaper also lacks the target lock action, which is actually a bit of a blow to its attack power. Generally 1 agility ships get far less mileage out of the focus action than medium or high agility ships and so are more inclined to just target lock and rely on their health for defense.

The fact that really good players can make the shuttle useful tells nothing about the capabilities of the ship. That's why they are good players.

When it comes to equally skilled opponents, that won't matter. (And that should be the basis for any argument for balance).

Git gud isn't an answer. Essentially you are handicapping yourself by picking a ship so inefficient. (And don't even try to say that the lambda has high value based on its stats. Maybe that was true before, but not lately)

4 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Shuttle's been dead a long time. As much as I love the design, it never did belong on the battlefield.

I guess that makes winning a System Open with it all the more impressive!

39 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

I guess that makes winning a System Open with it all the more impressive!

No joke there, that IS impressive. But was it because of Palpatine?

27 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

No joke there, that IS impressive. But was it because of Palpatine?

I'd argue it was as much to do with Yorr's ability after watching the final on stream, helping free up the Inquisitor's dial(and allowing him to push the limit following a k-turn). Yorr/Palp is a very good combination of abilities.

Edit: There's an awful lot of criticism for the Lambda in this topic (some deserved), but it's important to remember that the Lambda remains the cheapest large based ship in the game. 3 attack, 10 health, 1 agility, 2 crew slots, system slot and the ability to full stop for a base cost of 21 points is not bad. It's dial is bad, but that's a weakness that can be masked somewhat by upgrades like Electronic Baffle, Advanced Sensors and Inspiring Recruit. The Palpshuttle (with or without Yorr) remains it's top niche role, but it's always had a role in the Imperial meta. I feel like there's probably going to be some opportunities to leverage ST-321 in the future as well.

I'm really looking forward to the TIE Reaper and seeing what it brings to the table, but I'm not going to write the Lambda off just yet.

Cpt. Your will probably remain relevant on the strength of his ability, but I doubt you'll ever see an OGP again.

7 hours ago, SpikeSpiegel said:

Calling it: FAQ Palp to “Large Ship Only”

That would suck (especially as by pure mini-size the Reaper should be large base anyway, it's just goign to be awkward to play in practice as is) but I suspect all that would do is limit Palp to being used on Decis, and if you want a cheap support ship, you bring a Reaper with Krennic and Hux, or Krennic and Fleet, or even Fleet/systems/mk2.

The only good, cheap support ship Imps have is the Palp shuttle at the moment, but not for long.

(A Kylo bomber shuttle also has its place, but basically only in supporting PS8-10 aces so that they don't get horribly murdered by PS11 arc dodgers)

The reaper will probably be about the same cost as the lambda.

6 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:

The fact that really good players can make the shuttle useful tells nothing about the capabilities of the ship.

Uh. If really good players can win really hard games at really high levels with the ship, then how the **** does that not reflect well on the ship??

3 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

No joke there, that IS impressive. But was it because of Palpatine?

It should be because of Palpatine. IT'S A *** **** SHUTTLE!!

I think the point so many people are trying to make is this:

Yes, some really talented players make cuts/win regionals with Lambda Palp Aces. However, this isn't due to the inherent strength of the Lambda (with exception of Yorr ability), it's because of the presence of Palpatine on the board. Having an alternative Palp-carrier (the Reaper) will be a big buff to Palp Aces for a few reasons. First, because the Reaper is small, it doesn't give half points- which is big in any competitive tournament scene. Abilities/actions of the ship aside, the increased difficulty in obtaining points from a Palp-carrier is huge for long-term MoV preservation. Second, the Reaper will be MUCH harder to kill quickly, having access to Lightweight Frame (which is AWESOME on an Agi 1 ship), the evade action, and likely a much better dial than the Lambda. Third, the skill floor for the whole archetype of Palp Aces will drop. Flying the Lambda is one of the most difficult tasks in the game, and having a more streamlined, more capable ship will open the list to more players, which may or may not be a good thing.

It's a mixed bag, sure, but I think it's the only way Imperials are ever going to keep up with Ultra Tier S Rebel Shenanigans. Now, as for what the heck scum is going to do, I have no idea.