3 minutes ago, Thalomen said:

We are going to have to agree to disagree on true meanings of the terms. While I acknowledge that it may be correct in modern parlance, I'm using them in the historical context. In real life I'm a military historian by profession, so those terms have very specific, traditional meanings to me. I realize that's not necessarily true for others though. I've noticed language has become less and less precise in recent years, such that words that were never meant to be used in a certain context are. "Legion" and "armada" were meant to describe truly massive formations based on historical connotations. Modern parlance... Well, it uses a lot of words incorrectly, but that's just the way it is.

Both legion and armada have the connotation of large numbers of whatever is being talked about, for example, "his sins were legion". A dozen or so ships is not an armada and a hundred or so men is not a legion. It's simply a marketing ploy to make it sound sexier.

Just now, Drasnighta said:

indeed.

i am not a military historian.

But I was in the military - that shapes my understanding and word useage.

Hence why I stated “legal” definition, and not “traditional” or “scholarly” definition.

Understood. That's why I wanted to clarify that I'm a traditionalist when it comes to the terms. Also, for the sake of clarity, while I like to think I have a very clear understanding of what the military is, its purpose and history, I also understand reading about it, studying it over a life time, etc, etc, is VERY different (and in many ways inferior) to experiencing it, being a member of it, and especially serving in wartime. In my classroom I'm able to make that clear. Not so much here.

If we play Armada and you have some ISDs, technically you are "playing" with legions of Stormtroopers. ISDs had several thousand troops and crew on each one.

2 minutes ago, Thalomen said:

Understood. That's why I wanted to clarify that I'm a traditionalist when it comes to the terms. Also, for the sake of clarity, while I like to think I have a very clear understanding of what the military is, its purpose and history, I also understand reading about it, studying it over a life time, etc, etc, is VERY different (and in many ways inferior) to experiencing it, being a member of it, and especially serving in wartime. In my classroom I'm able to make that clear. Not so much here.

No offence was taken... as it is, unlike a lot here, I played very minor roles, did my shot, and was released in due time to civilian life.

Serving as I did is vastly different to those who currently serve.

I mean, I have to use technicalities to qualify for vets benefits back home, so really, I don’t call on it ?

15 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Here are some pictures:

It looks awesome, but has got to be a pain to paint, and must be expensive, given the amount.

Is..Is that...wine on the table!?!? WHAT KIND OF GAME IS THIS!?!?!?

(actually, that looks really cool, but I'd go mad trying to paint those. I threw a hissy after painting 12 TIE fighters....)

36 minutes ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

In what way? (Not being argumentative, genuinely don’t know much about it.)

Well, just look around you. There's Dropzone Commander, and then there's... Epic 40k, which had its heyday what, like 20 years ago? It's not an accident that there's maybe one even mildly mainstream game at that scale. (Excepting Historicals, which are a wholly separate and highly splintered genre unto themselves.)

By contrast, 28mm games are immensely popular. 40k, Warmachine, and Legion don't all have similar model counts and scales by happenstance - it's what people buy.

42 minutes ago, Thalomen said:

Also, why do Legion players want another skirmish game? If I were going to uy in, Id want to play all of Hoth or all of Endor. Legion is just another skirmish level game. Like 40K or something of that sort.

There's about a half dozen different ways you could define the word skirmish in a military/wargame context, but IA, Legion, and 40k are not at all the same category in either model count or gameplay scope. In IA, the focus is on each model; in Legion/40k, it's on each squad. Zooming progressively out you could focus on each platoon or each company; but that's ultimately a factor of rules as much or more than model size.

You could write a campaign ruleset for Legion that tracked the wounds, experience, and equipment of every single individual model, if you wanted. It wouldn't work as well as IA does.

Just now, moodswing5537 said:

Is..Is that...wine on the table!?!? WHAT KIND OF GAME IS THIS!?!?!?

(actually, that looks really cool, but I'd go mad trying to paint those. I threw a hissy after painting 12 TIE fighters....)

Let me tell you if the “wonders” of De Bellis Antiquitas and De Bellis Multitudinius...

?.

1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

Reasonable is a misnomer there.

its basically a 6mm game at that point.

Which is a pain to paint, and really only favours absolutely masses ranked battles... fir all it’s apparent fans, Epic Armageddon was never that popular. For model and rules scale reasons.

for one, it basically reduces infantry to irrelevancy, and focuses on “support” elements.

and to make the game worthwhile - a LOT of them.

Epic Armageddon was a desperate attempt to correct Epic 40k. You are correct that it was never that popular.

Epic 40k was GW's attempt to money grab by doing a complete rules rewrite of Epic Space Marine. Epic 40k was even less popular, and managed to drive most of their Epic scale fan base away or underground.

Epic Space Marine was GW's second highest selling game in the early 1990s. At the time it was beating out Warhammer, and was second only to Warhammer 40k. Epic Space Marine was the last true full army company scale game GW produced. Epic 40k and Epic Armageddon were way too squad centric to satisfy the Epic scale fan base.

Sorry Dras, didn't mean to take it out on you, just still a sore subject, and the main reason GW never gets a dime from me. The bastards pulled thousands of dollars of stock out of the stores when when Epic 40k was announced. It has taken me 20+ years to buy all the models I would have bought over a 2 year span if they had kept the game in production.

9 minutes ago, cynanbloodbane said:

Epic Armageddon was a desperate attempt to correct Epic 40k. You are correct that it was never that popular.

Epic 40k was GW's attempt to money grab by doing a complete rules rewrite of Epic Space Marine. Epic 40k was even less popular, and managed to drive most of their Epic scale fan base away or underground.

Epic Space Marine was GW's second highest selling game in the early 1990s. At the time it was beating out Warhammer, and was second only to Warhammer 40k. Epic Space Marine was the last true full army company scale game GW produced. Epic 40k and Epic Armageddon were way too squad centric to satisfy the Epic scale fan base.

Sorry Dras, didn't mean to take it out on you, just still a sore subject, and the main reason GW never gets a dime from me. The bastards pulled thousands of dollars of stock out of the stores when when Epic 40k was announced. It has taken me 20+ years to buy all the models I would have bought over a 2 year span if they had kept the game in production.

Just because I used to work for the Company doesn’t mean I agree - or like - a lot of the old or even current decisions they make . ?

most of the time, my GW defense is of the hobby specialists (as I was) who genuinely love the hobby and grew a fan base that was primed to look outside of GW itself, but would never have looked without that introduction.

Thise specialists do not get enough credit, instead, they are lumped in with the general “red shirt” hate...

I mean, imagine thus.... GW Australia decided one day - in the heyday of specialust games - the only one you could buy in Aus would be Mordheim.

all other games immediately and irreconcilables lost... they dumped them out the warehouse

and I mean, please.... You could *try* a 20-26 week snail mail order to the UK if you dared... because, what, the internet existed? I didn’t have broadband there until 15 years ago...

28 minutes ago, svelok said:

... (Excepting Historicals, which are a wholly separate and highly splintered genre unto themselves.) ...

Haha, I come from that background! It is indeed splintered, but there is one thing that unites it ... a hatred of GW. My friends used to call using any GW rules as playing at, "pixies and fairies," and they would make comments like, "it's not real wargaming!"

However my interest in wargaming has a broader base - as well as being fascinated by history I also like literature and films, so if there's a game related to The Lord of the Rings or Star Wars, for example, then I will give it a go, yes, even if it's by GW or FFG!

1 hour ago, moodswing5537 said:

Is..Is that...wine on the table!?!? WHAT KIND OF GAME IS THIS!?!?!?

We have been missing out Mood!

We shall now add wine to our bourbon and beer selection for Armada.

1 minute ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

We have been missing out Mood!

We shall now add wine to our bourbon and beer selection for Armada.

I shall select a nice Tawny Port for our next engagement....

16 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:

I shall select a nice Tawny Port for our next engagement....

Man, that takes me back...

2 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Reasonable is a misnomer there.

its basically a 6mm game at that point.

Which is a pain to paint, and really only favours absolutely masses ranked battles... fir all it’s apparent fans, Epic Armageddon was never that popular. For model and rules scale reasons.

for one, it basically reduces infantry to irrelevancy, and focuses on “support” elements.

and to make the game worthwhile - a LOT of them.

Infantry wouldn't be the point, it would be armor. Field multiple AT-STs in custom unit colors, escorting AT-ATs, with air cover. Infantry is about as inconsequential as Starfighters are here in Armada. And just as small.

When Legion was hinted I was REALLY ENTHUSED to paint up T-47 flights and AT-ST squadrons. I wanted to spend about $40 on an AT-AT, not $100+. Moreover, you can't field large amounts of armor in Legion because the focus is large amounts of Infantry... which we already have in IA!

I anticipated Legion being what Armada is to X-Wing: a jump in scale so the biggest units of one game are the smallest in another. That isn't the case with Legion. The only appeal is maybe painting up my own stormtroopers and actually having fun terrain to play with. But it isn't the same as going nuts over how to customize and paint up mass ground armor.

Just now, Norsehound said:

Infantry wouldn't be the point, it would be armor. Field multiple AT-STs in custom unit colors, escorting AT-ATs, with air cover. Infantry is about as inconsequential as Starfighters are here in Armada. And just as small.

When Legion was hinted I was REALLY ENTHUSED to paint up T-47 flights and AT-ST squadrons. I wanted to spend about $40 on an AT-AT, not $100+. Moreover, you can't field large amounts of armor in Legion because the focus is large amounts of Infantry... which we already have in IA!

I anticipated Legion being what Armada is to X-Wing: a jump in scale so the biggest units of one game are the smallest in another. That isn't the case with Legion. The only appeal is maybe painting up my own stormtroopers and actually having fun terrain to play with. But it isn't the same as going nuts over how to customize and paint up mass ground armor.

Focus on that and you lose the focus on the individual heroism of Star Wars.

Some (including me) would have taken that as a necessary cut from the lore fir great what-if battles... or clone wars...

But I’m 200,000% sure that LFL has had something to say about that.

2 hours ago, moodswing5537 said:

Is..Is that...wine on the table!?!? WHAT KIND OF GAME IS THIS!?!?!?

(actually, that looks really cool, but I'd go mad trying to paint those. I threw a hissy after painting 12 TIE fighters....)

I swear, one day I am gonna paint all my Macedonians, Persians and Romans.

One day.

And maybe I even play with them ?

1 hour ago, NebulonB said:

I swear, one day I am gonna paint all my Macedonians, Persians and Romans.

One day.

And maybe I even play with them ?

I have 6 full warmaster armies and have painted 1/2 of one.

I also have yet to play a game.

I regret nothing.

I too wanted a smaller scale. Heck I'd take 15mm. You could still have heros then! But then they could take out AT ATs, not just STs. That sounds familiar somehow...

It is still possible to have hero units at 6mm scale, they are just represented by a special troop stand, of a kind appropriate to the hero.

30 minutes ago, cynanbloodbane said:

It is still possible to have hero units at 6mm scale, they are just represented by a special troop stand, of a kind appropriate to the hero.

Possible to have, yes

But very hard to have individual heroics, it is

13 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Possible to have, yes

But very hard to have individual heroics, it is

That issue exists in Armada and the game still works.

I would have preferred Legion in more of a Epic scale rather than 40k scale, or somewhere between.

But anyways, enough of this Legion talk, this be the realm of angry triangles ?

19 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Focus on that and you lose the focus on the individual heroism of Star Wars.

Some (including me) would have taken that as a necessary cut from the lore fir great what-if battles... or clone wars...

But I’m 200,000% sure that LFL has had something to say about that.

IA isn't that arena for "personal heroics?" Thanks LFL. We all know the reason Legion was made is to compete directly with 40K.

basically some people wanted what some people made using micromachines

(where do these people get the money? do they rob banks?)

7 minutes ago, Geressen said:

basically some people wanted what some people made using micromachines

(where do these people get the money? do they rob banks?)

Oh wow, these bring back memories. I distinctly remember getting some of these. Good old Action Fleet!

Semi amazed micro machines never got into war gaming. Theyre literally the things that developed my interest as a 5/6 yr old

The action fleet Hoth base set that folded into a carry case was my go-to holiday toy. I loved that thing...