I mean, don’t get me wrong - I am NOTORIOUSLY jaded against that scale where infantry is a core identifiable element.

i had a feral Ork army in Epic.

And as awesome as ATATs are... Stormtroopers are just as iconic.

in 6mm they would be horrible.

.. they are horrible in the Pseudo 10mm of Rebellion....

I know, I painted that set...

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

I mean, don’t get me wrong - I am NOTORIOUSLY jaded against that scale where infantry is a core identifiable element.

i had a feral Ork army in Epic

Understandable. At that scale I can see it being more about groups than individual heroes, or the heroic actions of individual troops.

Im not sure where you all are getting your epic scale from. 1/270 is not that small. Yes, infantry would act as squads most likely, but it wouldn't be that small. I mean look at the cock pit of a fighter from X-Wing. Imagine the scale of the pilot. Its not that small, closer to 10mm, which is historical wargaming scale. Also, why do Legion players want another skirmish game? If I were going to uy in, Id want to play all of Hoth or all of Endor. Legion is just another skirmish level game. Like 40K or something of that sort.

2 minutes ago, Thalomen said:

Im not sure where you all are getting your epic scale from. 1/270 is not that small. Yes, infantry would act as squads most likely, but it wouldn't be that small. I mean look at the cock pit of a fighter from X-Wing. Imagine the scale of the pilot. Its not that small, closer to 10mm, which is historical wargaming scale. Also, why do Legion players want another skirmish game? If I were going to uy in, Id want to play all of Hoth or all of Endor. Legion is just another skirmish level game. Like 40K or something of that sort.

Couldnt agree more.

1 minute ago, Thalomen said:

Like 40K or something of that sort.

That's exactly what they're going after.

5 minutes ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

Understandable. At that scale I can see it being more about groups than individual heroes, or the heroic actions of individual troops.

And Individual heroes is a core trope of Star Wars in that side of things...

1 minute ago, Viktor Tanek said:

That's exactly what they're going after.

Im pretty sure 40k isnt succesful bec of the infantry models, but bec of the bigger centerpieces.

2 minutes ago, Thalomen said:

Im not sure where you all are getting your epic scale from. 1/270 is not that small. Yes, infantry would act as squads most likely, but it wouldn't be that small. I mean look at the cock pit of a fighter from X-Wing. Imagine the scale of the pilot. Its not that small, closer to 10mm, which is historical wargaming scale. Also, why do Legion players want another skirmish game? If I were going to uy in, Id want to play all of Hoth or all of Endor. Legion is just another skirmish level game. Like 40K or something of that sort.

40K... isn’t that what Legion is? FFG’s answer to 40K set in the Star Wars universe.

Just now, Coldhands said:

Im pretty sure 40k isnt succesful bec of the infantry models, but bec of the bigger centerpieces.

Actually not.

Space Marines still sell more than all other lines combined.

15 minutes ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

In what way? (Not being argumentative, genuinely don’t know much about it.)

I haven't played it ever, but I would guess the scale. Especially if you want to paint. Each block of infantry would be approximately 50-100 risk men in formation. To make a decent large-scale force, you'd need 4 or 5 of those. Not to mention the support elements (cannons, cavalry, etc). And, of course, the terrain. I assume you have seen pictures of them. I don't know their cost though.

1 minute ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

I haven't played it ever, but I would guess the scale. Especially if you want to paint. Each block of infantry would be approximately 50-100 risk men in formation. To make a decent large-scale force, you'd need 4 or 5 of those. Not to mention the support elements (cannons, cavalry, etc). And, of course, the terrain. I assume you have seen pictures of them. I don't know their cost though.

Dras mentioned the painting part. I wasn’t sure if there was more to it or not.

I have seen terrain... but more for 40k which is the bigger scale.

3 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

And Individual heroes is a core trope of Star Wars in that side of things...

Which is unfortunate in a way. If that forever dominates our destiny, we will never be able to recreate massive battles on the table top. The models will always be too big, and expensive, for multiple AT-ATs, Juggernauts and everything else on the table top. For that matter, look at Armada. Much as I love it, and I do, the name is a misnomer. No one has ever played Star Wars Armada. We've been playing Star Wars Naval Task Force.

Just now, Thalomen said:

Which is unfortunate in a way. If that forever dominates our destiny, we will never be able to recreate massive battles on the table top. The models will always be too big, and expensive, for multiple AT-ATs, Juggernauts and everything else on the table top. For that matter, look at Armada. Much as I love it, and I do, the name is a misnomer. No one has ever played Star Wars Armada. We've been playing Star Wars Naval Task Force.

It befits a legal definition of Armada, so it counts.

Just now, Drasnighta said:

It befits a legal definition of Armada, so it counts.

Does it?

The term is traditionally used to describe massive fleets. It came into vogue after the Spanish Armada of 1588, which included 130 ships which set the standard for the implicating an "armada's" size. Star Wars Armada will never come close to that. That's no criticism of the game, which is a great game. Its a criticism of the naming practices of FFG.

For instance, Roman Legions - which is where that term originates - had between 3,000 and 5,200. Star Wars Legion will never even come close. Again, not a criticism of the game itself. Just of FFG naming practices and the implication those names hold.

2 minutes ago, Thalomen said:

Does it?

The term is traditionally used to describe massive fleets. It came into vogue after the Spanish Armada of 1588, which included 130 ships which set the standard for the implicating an "armada's" size. Star Wars Armada will never come close to that. That's no criticism of the game, which is a great game. Its a criticism of the naming practices of FFG.

For instance, Roman Legions - which is where that term originates - had between 3,000 and 5,200. Star Wars Legion will never even come close. Again, not a criticism of the game itself. Just of FFG naming practices and the implication those names hold.

yeah, but Star Wars Platoon doesn't roll off the tongue....

4 minutes ago, Thalomen said:

Does it?

The term is traditionally used to describe massive fleets. It came into vogue after the Spanish Armada of 1588, which included 130 ships which set the standard for the implicating an "armada's" size. Star Wars Armada will never come close to that. That's no criticism of the game, which is a great game. Its a criticism of the naming practices of FFG.

For instance, Roman Legions - which is where that term originates - had between 3,000 and 5,200. Star Wars Legion will never even come close. Again, not a criticism of the game itself. Just of FFG naming practices and the implication those names hold.

Also, Legion doesn't have to mean the 3K + from Rome. In the common vernacular, It can mean:

a vast host, multitude, or number of people or things.

But I see where you are coming from though. It does seem smaller scale numbers wise due to the scale alone, but I think Rebellion was FFG's attempt at larger scale(numbers, not size) combat. Eventhough that played more like a board game. I can see Legion as an evolution from what they have already done with IA and Armada/X-wing.

3 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:

yeah, but Star Wars Platoon doesn't roll off the tongue....

Agreed. Hence the hyped naming conventions.

1 minute ago, moodswing5537 said:

Also, Legion doesn't have to mean the 3K + from Rome. In the common vernacular, It can mean:

a vast host, multitude, or number of people or things.

Which you will still never see on a Legion table.

4 minutes ago, Thalomen said:

Does it?

The term is traditionally used to describe massive fleets. It came into vogue after the Spanish Armada of 1588, which included 130 ships which set the standard for the implicating an "armada's" size. Star Wars Armada will never come close to that. That's no criticism of the game, which is a great game. Its a criticism of the naming practices of FFG.

For instance, Roman Legions - which is where that term originates - had between 3,000 and 5,200. Star Wars Legion will never even come close. Again, not a criticism of the game itself. Just of FFG naming practices and the implication those names hold.

One thing to consider is that in modern parlance Fleet and Armada are synonymous.

while one or two ships might not be a fleet, 4+ would. So any MSU list is definitely an Armada.

Add to that that fleet can also mean a large group of vehicles... like fighters. In TFA they mentioned they had lost a large part of their X-Wing fleet at Starkiller base.

So your ships, plus a large number of fighters also equals an Armada.

Indeed.

In more modern parlance, An Armada is a collection of ships and fleets “unified under a single Commander for a specific mission.”

Basically, if your fleet contains a Flotilla, or is comprised of ships from “different fleets”.... It’s an Armada.

... but I mean, I’m ex-Air Force.

I am relying on my RAN buddies backing me up with that info ?

17 minutes ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

Dras mentioned the painting part. I wasn’t sure if there was more to it or not.

I have seen terrain... but more for 40k which is the bigger scale.

Here are some pictures:

It looks awesome, but has got to be a pain to paint, and must be expensive, given the amount.

I played micro armor for years. That is in 1/300th or 1/285th scale depending on the manufacturer. 285th is the standard. A pack of 50 infantry was $5. Painting wasn't so bad, I could put details on the faces. 4-6 per stand and you had a squad. Individuals could still be done on their own stand, i.e. generals and such. We would regularly field hundreds of infantry and dozens of pieces of armor and such. Not a problem. For those who think this would not work for Star Wars, go on FaceBook and find the x-wing mini painting and mods group. There is a guy named Walter Vail who used to make the molds for micro-armor minis. He has been doing mods to x-wing minis with figures including Vader and C3-P0. Absolutely no problem telling what is what. It could be done if people really wanted an epic scale Star Wars ground game.

Personally, I recommend against it because it would be yet more thing to distract from more spaceships and I cannot afford any more games.

1 minute ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

One thing to consider is that in modern parlance Fleet and Armada are synonymous.

while one or two ships might not be a fleet, 4+ would. So any MSU list is definitely an Armada.

Add to that that fleet can also mean a large group of vehicles... like fighters. In TFA they mentioned they had lost a large part of their X-Wing fleet at Starkiller base.

So your ships, plus a large number of fighters also equals an Armada.

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

Indeed.

In more modern parlance, An Armada is a collection of ships and fleets “unified under a single Commander for a specific mission.”

Basically, if your fleet contains a Flotilla, or is comprised of ships from “different fleets”.... It’s an Armada.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on true meanings of the terms. While I acknowledge that it may be correct in modern parlance, I'm using them in the historical context. In real life I'm a military historian by profession, so those terms have very specific, traditional meanings to me. I realize that's not necessarily true for others though. I've noticed language has become less and less precise in recent years, such that words that were never meant to be used in a certain context are. "Legion" and "armada" were meant to describe truly massive formations based on historical connotations. Modern parlance... Well, it uses a lot of words incorrectly, but that's just the way it is.

7 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Indeed.

In more modern parlance, An Armada is a collection of ships and fleets “unified under a single Commander for a specific mission.”

Basically, if your fleet contains a Flotilla, or is comprised of ships from “different fleets”.... It’s an Armada.

... but I mean, I’m ex-Air Force.

I am relying on my RAN buddies backing me up with that info ?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hou0lU8WMgo

indeed.

i am not a military historian.

But I was in the military - that shapes my understanding and word useage.

Hence why I stated “legal” definition, and not “traditional” or “scholarly” definition.

4 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Here are some pictures:

It looks awesome, but has got to be a pain to paint, and must be expensive, given the amount.

Wow. Color me impressed. That is amazing.

There is no way I could ever paint something like that.