Does a melee hit produce a suppression token? The rules are not clear.

The Learn to Play guide says suppression tokens are only applied from ranged attacks, pg 20: "The most common way for a unit to gain suppression tokens is
to be the target of a ranged attack. After a ranged attack, if the attacker’s dice roll produced one or more hit (?) or critical (?) results, the defender gains one suppression token, even if those results were canceled."

The Rules Reference Guide does not contain the ranged attack restriction and only references "attack", pg 42: "After an attack, if the attack dice produced at least
one hit (?) or critical (?) result, the defender gains a suppression token."

The Golden Rule on pg 4 of the RRG states that when in conflict the RRG takes precedence.

It would appear to RAW, but not RAI.

Suppression is the concept of being pinned down by fire so I would THINK it's ranged only...pg. 20 also supports this.

Pretty sure it’s ranged only

Our reading is that melee gets them too. The learn to play guide only says "the most common way" etc. And shooting *is* the most common way. Melee is another way, though.

Keep in mind that morale-type effects are folded into the suppression mechanic - it can make you panic. Getting murdered by an unstoppable madman with a lightsaber has got to be scary.

In the learn to play, it only says its "most common", not the only way. I agree that suppression should only be for ranged attacks, but I wish it were more definitively stated.

Err, and PS: our reading of the suppression rules for units is that the unit itself has the courage value of its remaining models. E.g. a squad with 5 models has 5 courage. So they tend to break / need leaders mostly as they take losses.

It's a bit ambiguous in the rules, as it changes from unit to mini(?) or trooper(?) half way through the text. Will need to clarify that one.

I believe @Watch It Played stated in his post last week that he worked closely with the game publishers when producing his “How to Play” video and that it was their intent that suppression is added from ranged, not melee attacks

Quite frankly in any kind of competitive setting the rules and intended VS as worked debate is pointless. You have to go with what is written. Unless someone can find something in the rules reference that I have missed page 42 says you get a token, so you get a token. It might get FAQed at some point but until then you do what the rules say.

1 hour ago, dukncuver said:

In the learn to play, it only says its "most common", not the only way. I agree that suppression should only be for ranged attacks, but I wish it were more definitively stated.

I think other ways to be suppressed will come about as more stuff is released. Something like the Emperor giving suppression token to rebel units when he close to them. Example: FEAR, At the end of the the turn Emperor gives all corp types rebel units a suppression token if he is within range 2.

This was brought up, too, at the demo I attended at Odyssey Games in Kalamazoo, Michigan. The instructor followed the rules as written and went with melee as well (and who's to blame him? Cool guy and great demo by the way!). I did, however, show him the thread on where "Watch It Played" commented that he talked with the devs on a few questions prior to his recording and this was one of them. They told him (paraphrasing here) that Supression will be ranged only as @OMGBRICK mentioned above.

1 hour ago, jmjalamar said:

I think other ways to be suppressed will come about as more stuff is released. Something like the Emperor giving suppression token to rebel units when he close to them. Example: FEAR, At the end of the the turn Emperor gives all corp types rebel units a suppression token if he is within range 2.

The other way to be suppressed now is a trooper displaced by a vehicle. It's in the RRG in the "Suppression" section. I'm sure you're right about more coming.

Guess we have one of our first errata for the RRG if the real dev intent is ranged!

4 hours ago, Hawkstrike said:

Guess we have one of our first errata for the RRG if the real dev intent is ranged!

There have already been a few other necessary corrections identified for a Day 0 update. For instance, they need to clarify that multiple sources of the Arsenal keyword are intended to stack (which is the clear intent but isn't spelled out in the RRG).

7 hours ago, jmjalamar said:

I think other ways to be suppressed will come about as more stuff is released. Something like the Emperor giving suppression token to rebel units when he close to them. Example: FEAR, At the end of the the turn Emperor gives all corp types rebel units a suppression token if he is within range 2.

Vader already does that with Master of Evil. And it's three suppression tokens. And he gets a dodge.

It is pretty great.

6 hours ago, Dr Lucky said:

There have already been a few other necessary corrections identified for a Day 0 update. For instance, they need to clarify that multiple sources of the Arsenal keyword are intended to stack (which is the clear intent but isn't spelled out in the RRG).

Yeah, that one seems a bit odd to me to be honest. I'm not sure I understand Arsenal correctly.

If AT-ST+Weiss gives Arsenal 4, and you fill all three Hardpoint slots, that means you can use all three Hardpoints plus the primary in a single attack, right? But the range limitations mean you can't because not all of the weapons have compatible ranges and you can't take a single upgrade more than once. Maybe it's something that will mean more later, but right now with Weiss there doesn't seem to be much point in stacking Arsenal.

You don't need to fire all weapons at the same target...

4 hours ago, Hawkstrike said:

Yeah, that one seems a bit odd to me to be honest. I'm not sure I understand Arsenal correctly.

If AT-ST+Weiss gives Arsenal 4, and you fill all three Hardpoint slots, that means you can use all three Hardpoints plus the primary in a single attack, right? But the range limitations mean you can't because not all of the weapons have compatible ranges and you can't take a single upgrade more than once. Maybe it's something that will mean more later, but right now with Weiss there doesn't seem to be much point in stacking Arsenal.

The issue isn't that it wouldn't work for Arsenal to stack, it's that the rules never explicitly say that it does. LTP page 15 is explicit that Weapon Keywords stack (like Impact X and Pierce X), but the rules never actually say that Unit Keywords stack (like Arsenal X and Precise X). Logically they have to, because otherwise General Weiss would do nothing on an AT-ST and Targeting Scopes would do nothing on Stormtroopers, but the rules need to actually say it.

On 11/03/2018 at 8:43 PM, dukncuver said:

In the learn to play, it only says its "most common", not the only way. I agree that suppression should only be for ranged attacks, but I wish it were more definitively stated.

L2P p. 20 right after that (“most common”) it clearly states “After a ranged attack”, since the RR doesn’t contradict this, does this not mean that suppression can only be applied by ranged attacks?

16 minutes ago, Alathazal said:

L2P p. 20 right after that (“most common”) it clearly states “After a ranged attack”, since the RR doesn’t contradict this, does this not mean that suppression can only be applied by ranged attacks?

Correct. Ranged attacks are the only thing called out as giving suppression. Anything else would require a special rule to do so.

“Most common” has probably muddied the statement a bit In The learn to play book, I feel that the intention of this statement was to highlight the fire suppression mechanic, gaining suppression should have been revisited in the RRG.

I believe FFG has said that the wording "most common" was simply to account for future expansions (don't remember where I saw that however).

On March 11, 2018 at 4:45 PM, Weatsop said:

Err, and PS: our reading of the suppression rules for units is that the unit itself has the courage value of its remaining models. E.g. a squad with 5 models has 5 courage. So they tend to break / need leaders mostly as they take losses.

It's a bit ambiguous in the rules, as it changes from unit to mini(?) or trooper(?) half way through the text. Will need to clarify that one.

Is this really how it works? I tought a unit with courage 1 had courage 1, period. If it's per model, this makes units far more resilient. It would take a dozen suppression tokens to panic a Stormtrooper unit at full strength...

3 minutes ago, Darth Lupine said:

Is this really how it works? I tought a unit with courage 1 had courage 1, period. If it's per model, this makes units far more resilient. It would take a dozen suppression tokens to panic a Stormtrooper unit at full strength...

Yeah, no, suppression would literally do nothing if that were the case. The number listed on the card is the value for the whole unit and it's not even ambiguous about that.

Just now, MasterShake2 said:

Yeah, no, suppression would literally do nothing if that were the case. The number listed on the card is the value for the whole unit and it's not even ambiguous about that.

That's what I tought, otherwise it makes no sense! Ok then.

If reading the rrg alone, which should be enough since the L2P is a stripped down version of the game, it does seem like all form of attacks cause suppression. in most cases this means (only) that whoever fights second will not get to aim their attack.

But throw in some ability that allows a second attack or additional suppression and it can mean a unit fleeing out of melee (towards the nearest table edge).

Doesnt sound too bad to be honest, though the term suppression feels a bit weird for melee.

On another note, reading through the RRG im a bit confused at some inconsistencies present in the game even though it tries to be streamlined. (To be fair, it very much is!) Like the keyword SUPPRESSIVE that aside from other keywords does not stack. And the use of white dice to determine clambering through blocks, white dice to determine rally through blocks AND surges, red dice to determine priority throuh blocks but vehicle damage theough a variety of synbols.

I know this will all come without a thought for anyone playing regularly but for those who pick up the game only now and them it seems a little "all over the place".

1 minute ago, Soulless said:

If reading the rrg alone, which should be enough since the L2P is a stripped down version of the game, it does seem like all form of attacks cause suppression. in most cases this means (only) that whoever fights second will not get to aim their attack.

"The most common way for a unit to gain suppression is to be the target of a ranged attack. After a ranged attack, if the attack's dice roll produced one or more (hit) or (crit) results, the defender gains one suppression token, even if those results were cancelled."

Like, seriously, this is the only part of the RRG that talks about ways to get suppression from attacks and it only mentions ranged attacks as doing it natively. There is no rule anywhere in the RRG that causes suppression from any other kind of attack.