Saber Throwis treated as an attack action, Relentless lets him perform an attack action after moving. I don't see a conflict between the two.

Doesn't the RRG have Vader proccing Relentless on Saber Throw in the example of how Standby works?

14 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Doesn't the RRG have Vader proccing Relentless on Saber Throw in the example of how Standby works?

It most certainly does...

RRG Pg. 41:

For example, Darth Vader performs a move action to move
into range 2 of a unit of Rebel Troopers that have a standby
token. Before Vader can trigger relentless to perform
an attack with the “Saber Throw” upgrade card, the Rebel
Troopers spend their standby token to perform a move, taking
them beyond range 2 of Darth Vader. With no enemy unit in
range 1–2, Darth Vader can no longer perform an attack.

Yeah, we went back and forth a bit on that too, but as far as we can tell it's triggered as a card action, and then activates an attack action (to stop you also attacking normally that round).

11 hours ago, NeonWolf said:

It most certainly does...

RRG Pg. 41:

For example, Darth Vader performs a move action to move
into range 2 of a unit of Rebel Troopers that have a standby
token. Before Vader can trigger relentless to perform
an attack with the “Saber Throw” upgrade card, the Rebel
Troopers spend their standby token to perform a move, taking
them beyond range 2 of Darth Vader. With no enemy unit in
range 1–2, Darth Vader can no longer perform an attack.

So this means you can move-saber throw?

Yes.

Or move, move, and then throw

Vader not so slow now and has a decent threat range. 3 reds with impact and pierce is decent.

He's actually faster than Luke, then, if they both want to attack make a ranged attack (see Orc below), since the speed 1 template is more than half a speed 2.

Reckon this plainly contradicts the earlier rules that differentiate card actions from attack actions. They'll need to fix some wording, I think. The example says it plain, but take that away and the rules seem to pretty clearly say it's not doable.

2 hours ago, Weatsop said:

He's actually faster than Luke, then, if they both want to attack, since the speed 1 template is more than half a speed 2.

Reckon this plainly contradicts the earlier rules that differentiate card actions from attack actions. They'll need to fix some wording, I think. The example says it plain, but take that away and the rules seem to pretty clearly say it's not doable.

1.If Luke wants to use his blaster yes Vader can outpace him. But luke has charge so he can move-move-melee attack.

2. If Saber Throw or any future force ability ranged attacks aren't meant to be attack actions what is the point of relentless? Vaders only natural attack is melee and we already have Charge as a keyword.

Reminders

Relentless- After you perform a move action, you may perform a free attack action

Charge- after you perform a move action you may perform a free melee attack action

Having a keyword that is essentially the same as another in the core box adds unnecessary complexity to the learning game and FFG like to avoid that.

Yeah, that's a very fair point. We did talk about Relentless, how it might as well be Charge. Buuuut we figured maybe there was something else that could come along that would take use of the difference.

But yeah, I'm very happy with a better Vader. He's supposed to be a monster.

If* he hets double move and throw he will be a monster, forget deflect just spread flying lightsticks of doom love.

*I believe it yes

yeah this is the most confusing part of the Rules Reference. There are actions, free actions, card actions and then other things none of which are the same to each other but sound and act like each other. They made this overly complicated in my opinion.

Vader can move and he can move and attack with Relentless. That attack is a free action. But he's used one action and can't attack with any other actions. He can move once and throw his lightsaber, but that's 2 actions and he can't use his relentless action at that time. He can move and attack and choke someone with Force Choke as the Force Choke is a free card action

33 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

yeah this is the most confusing part of the Rules Reference. There are actions, free actions, card actions and then other things none of which are the same to each other but sound and act like each other. They made this overly complicated in my opinion.

Vader can move and he can move and attack with Relentless. That attack is a free action. But he's used one action and can't attack with any other actions. He can move once and throw his lightsaber, but that's 2 actions and he can't use his relentless action at that time. He can move and attack and choke someone with Force Choke as the Force Choke is a free card action

I'd like to think it's pretty straightforward. I mean, your examples can all be summed up in two sentences:

You get two actions.
You can only attack once per turn.

Your most common actions are probably going to be moving (which you can do twice), and attacking. There's also Dodge, Aim, Standby, and Recover, which are fairly straightforward.
There are also free actions you can perform, that don't count towards your turn limit.

When you break it down, it's actually not a whole lot, and the restriction on attacks, or being able to double move are like what you find in most games.


I will note that a few people seem to be getting caught up on/are overthinking the "card actions." There may eventually be an ability or keyword that references them, but it really just refers to the source of the ability, i.e. it's something granted by a card, not one of the basic actions everyone can take. They can still be attack actions, move actions, free actions, etc.

I believe the RRG says specific card text trumps rules, so Saber Throw is a card action which counts as an attack action, because it says it is.

Card Action really just refers to the symbol, I think, which is there to let you know you have to take an action as indicated on the card to get the effect. If it's a Free Action symbol, it doesn't count for your action limits.

2 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

I believe the RRG says specific card text trumps rules, so Saber Throw is a card action which counts as an attack action, because it says it is.

Card Action really just refers to the symbol, I think, which is there to let you know you have to take an action as indicated on the card to get the effect. If it's a Free Action symbol, it doesn't count for your action limits.

The importance of calling it an attack action is the limit of 1 attack action per turn. If it was just an attack, it wouldn’t apply to the limit, so Vader (or Luke) could saber throw and attack in the same turn. (Luke can actually do exactly that with one of his command cards)

Right, but also, since it is an Attack Action, anything keyed to "attack", "action" or "attack action" procs. This applies not just to attack action/action limits, but stuff like Relentless, Standby tokens, etc.

6 hours ago, buckero0 said:

yeah this is the most confusing part of the Rules Reference. There are actions, free actions, card actions and then other things none of which are the same to each other but sound and act like each other. They made this overly complicated in my opinion.

Vader can move and he can move and attack with Relentless. That attack is a free action. But he's used one action and can't attack with any other actions. He can move once and throw his lightsaber, but that's 2 actions and he can't use his relentless action at that time. He can move and attack and choke someone with Force Choke as the Force Choke is a free card action

Vader can move use relentless and still have an action. He is only limited in that he cannot use that action for an attack action.