So, I am sorely disappointed in you, I haven't seen this mentioned in any threads (I might have missed it) BUT there are no less than TWO jam tokens in the TIE Reaper expansion.

Now why is that?

A, The Jam Action gives two Jam tokens, like a BOSS. This would make the Reaper top tier ship, no doubt.

B, The Jam action gives one jam token, but one of the Pilots has an ability that allows for a second jam token somehow.

C, The Jam action gives one jam token, but one of the upgrades (ISB Agent most likely) allows for 2 ships to be Jammed like Weapons Engineer, or something like that.

I'm really excited for the Reaper for this reason. What do you guys think?


(If you would like to say "JAM GIVES STRESS TOKENS, OMG WHY DON'T YOU READ THE RULES", I would refer you to the preview article. Give it a thorough reading. Besides, there are jam tokens in the box, and we have rules for Jam tokens already.)

Pretty sure there is 2 jam tokens in the Star Wing.

2 minutes ago, JohnBoo said:

Pretty sure there is 2 jam tokens in the Star Wing.

Jam tokens stack. Basically.

Jam tokens stack, so they need to make sure that you have enough tokens (ha, fat chance).

I wouldn’t get my hopes up....

however the jam action giving 2 jams would be awesome because then it may actually be close to as useful as the double stress epic jam was.

Option D:

TIE Reaper generic cost 50 points, so you can run 2 of them. Each one needs a token...just in case

Let's be reasonable.

Reinforce is just as strong in 100/6 as in epic.

Coordinate is just as strong in 100/6 as in epic.

Can't we have a slice of this cake? ( You know, til the next wave when scum gets a ps 9 ship with Jam)

Believe!

2 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

Let's be reasonable.

Reinforce is just as strong in 100/6 as in epic.

Coordinate is just as strong in 100/6 as in epic.

Can't we have a slice of this cake? ( You know, til the next wave when scum gets a ps 9 ship with Jam)

Believe!

Coordinate in standard started in Imps and was then made WAY better in Rebels.

I'm assuming Jam will probably be the same

A) Jam tokens stack, even if the rules on them is a bit wonky its clearly intended to stack (if it wasnt they'd say remove "all" tokens instead of relying on some bs multiple-instances-triggering-at-the-same-time crap)
B) Jam tokens dont go away at the end of the round.

The Jam action will most likely be a 1-2 range assign 1 jam. Which will be rather potent because unless youre a tokenstacker that will be irritating to get rid of and still get mods at all, not to mention it 100% autocounters Poe since he will either never, ever get to keep his focus or he starts taking PTL to tl first, drops jam, then focuses (or for even more points, waste a friendly ship free action via coordinate or cracken to get rid of it). And if it werent for black one i'd be sad about that, but black one can screw off (seriously dont freakin' get why it has an AoE...)

Assigning 2 jams, even if it was R1 only, would be outright disgusting. Thats 1 action to stop 2 mods or ordnance shots. This is actually the only reason im considering buying 2 reapers so i can run a pair of them bouncing off System Officers to each other and Jamming all day long

I'm hoping for 'assign Jam tokens until the target is Jammed' myself.

I.e. kill all its current tokens then give it one Jam token.

Otherwise it's an action for an action and whilst that is valuable when it's a bad cheap ship costing a good expensive ship an action, it's still not that *good*. But it also would mean that you couldn't just stack Jam tokens on one dude forever with a squad of four Reapers, which is probably good because that would be such a horrible play experience for anyone who uses tokens - but also, would just be laughably easy to beat for anyone who doesn't. WHich is many if not most lists right now.

But epic ships assigning 2 stress is also a very powerful effect.

And so is reinforce. They didn't change that either.

If it's range 1-2, then the low PS is a greater drawback. It would be okay if it assigned 2 or until jammed.

Theres no way the Jam action assigns multiple jams or is the epic stress format.

Both would be significantly too powerful, as thats an action to 100% shut down a ship's tokenplay.

1 token is enough since its automatically assigned. I would have been fine with jamming beams/scramblers assigning multiple jams since they eat your attack, but not an action doing it.

Oh god. Assigning more than one Jam token seems nutty broken to me. One action to delete *ALL* a ship's tokens? Giving out two would be even more nuts. Taking one action which instantly counters two other actions--regardless of PS--would be the most toxic thing ever to be released into this game. Welcome to Reaper-Wing.

Because Jam tokens last until they're removed by a token, throwing them out at low PS isn't really a disadvantage. Your opponent can boost or barrel roll without consequence, but low PS ships will be able to plan action around Jam and boost/BR anyhow.

And if there is a double-jam crew or ability, I hope it's a "two different ships" sort of thing; Weapons Engineer rather than Recon Specialist.

//

Jam not good? If you spend your action to Jam and force the discard of an Evade token, that means an attack against that ship will do 1 more damage. If I could take an action and put a condition on someone "the next time you're hit by an attack this turn, suffer 1 damage" we'd all clearly recognize that as a brutally strong action. Oh, but Jam isn't very good. But Jam will get focus or TL fairly often. Then Jam is basically Fenn Rau. I hadn't realized Fenn Rau was a trash pilot.

The point is that if you spend your action to clear their evade, you could just as well have spent it getting your own focus, for broadly the same benefit to your attack on them.

An action for an action is a dead even trade.

Unless you're clearing tokens off someone who has a greater need for them than their basic effect (comm relay, optics, poe generally, intensity, etc).

Fenn is not a trash pilot. But his ability is *not an action*. If it were an action, it would be *a lot* less good.

Fenn also only works when the target ship is attacking, in his arc, and he wasnt stressed already. It does not actually remove the tokens, so it doesnt deny defensive mods either. It also doesnt potentially deny firing an ordnance to begin with, just deny the reroll.

Jam tokens DO strip the token, and are preemptively used. If a ship has no tokens, you dont go "Crap, cant strip any...change targets" which is what Wes often had problems with. Nope, its "I do not want this guy to get a focus/evade right now" and JAMMED they now either boost/roll/special action or effectively take no action as theyre just getting rid of the jam. Yeah, i lost my action to do it, but thats where synergies come in to alleviate that (multiple reapers + systems officer, someone with Fleet or Hux, an EPT giving mods, etc)

Fenn is more of an analog to 4LOM, not Jam tokens. Stress instead of Ioned, denies all tokens when a ship is defending instead of when you are attacking that ship on 1 token, but only works once (4LOM can technically be used mutliple times)

WHat really ticks me off about Jam though is that the rules for it are *only going to be in the frigging Reaper booklet*. Not even on a ref card.

Ugh.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Oh god. Assigning more than one Jam token seems nutty broken to me. One action to delete *ALL* a ship's tokens? Giving out two would be even more nuts. Taking one action which instantly counters two other actions--regardless of PS--would be the most toxic thing ever to be released into this game. Welcome to Reaper-Wing.

Because Jam tokens last until they're removed by a token, throwing them out at low PS isn't really a disadvantage. Your opponent can boost or barrel roll without consequence, but low PS ships will be able to plan action around Jam and boost/BR anyhow.

And if there is a double-jam crew or ability, I hope it's a "two different ships" sort of thing; Weapons Engineer rather than Recon Specialist.

//

Jam not good? If you spend your action to Jam and force the discard of an Evade token, that means an attack against that ship will do 1 more damage. If I could take an action and put a condition on someone "the next time you're hit by an attack this turn, suffer 1 damage" we'd all clearly recognize that as a brutally strong action. Oh, but Jam isn't very good. But Jam will get focus or TL fairly often. Then Jam is basically Fenn Rau. I hadn't realized Fenn Rau was a trash pilot.

You trade an action for an action IF you managed to get in range 2. It's good but not great. 2stress is better.

Action: assign 2 stress is broken. Not just OP, straight up broken. There's a reason epic ships have their actions after everyone else has moved, and can't do free actions. It's so you can't give stress to a ship that has a red move dialed in, and force it to 2 straight.

19 minutes ago, player2072913 said:

Action: assign 2 stress is broken. Not just OP, straight up broken. There's a reason epic ships have their actions after everyone else has moved, and can't do free actions. It's so you can't give stress to a ship that has a red move dialed in, and force it to 2 straight.

And jam tokens don't do that, so there is no reason not to do it. It's not like reinforce was made weaker in normal games.

Hope!

1 hour ago, RufusDaMan said:

You trade an action for an action IF you managed to get in range 2. It's good but not great. 2stress is better.

I'm sure 4 stress would be better too. Not the point. Jam being one Jam token at range 1-2 is pretty much the equivalent of coordinate.

38 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

And jam tokens don't do that, so there is no reason not to do it. It's not like reinforce was made weaker in normal games.

Hope!

Opposite of hope. I'd fear Jam being made that much better in 100/6.

***

Differences between the formats lead to differences in the actions. I'd argue that Reinforce might be weaker in standard 100 point format, if only because ship count is generally smaller, and thus the upper end of the number of evades granted is, practically speaking, lower. I can't exactly speak to the relative difficulty in getting shots on the non-reinforced section. Likewise, 2-stress Jam is probably fine in Epic, where ship count is higher and ships capable of Jam are fairly expensive or limited in various ways, and action-dependant aces are a smaller part of the format. Having a 2-stress Jam would be broken as all get out in standard format. That'd 100% kill PTL aces, with nothing harder than just getting to range 2. That'd be horrible for the game. The context matters, and actions which are generally fair in one format could be extra strong, or extra weak, in other formats.

For a Reaper to have an action that would be that high an amount of power-creep isn't something I desire.

Reinforce/Coordinate didnt need to be changed (other than reinforce on how it determines front/rear) because generally in epic they were somewhat lackluster and they werent really over the top to begin with.
The only other epic action that isnt energy bound is Jam, and Jam also isnt even universally available to huge ships so that alone says something. Heck people bring the transport because of jam in a game with 10+ ships (if not 15+) where technically its nowhere near as good because stripping one ship out of 10-15 of his actions for your action when you cant have free actions is not as potent as it would be in standard 100/6 format, where thats half to a quarter of your list just got shut down for 0 effort.

Jam action giving stress in 100/6 would break the freakin game. I swear if they give us the Reaper and they actually DIDNT specify its assign a jam token, im not even going to bother i quit. The game will be such a cancerous, unfun PoS it will be unbearable. The only way to get anything is mods that work while stressed, which are very very sparce.

Im still thinking range 1-2 assign jam tokens until the target is jammed.

That explains the low ps, high ps would be broken.

Shuts down generic missile carriers though, like low ps gunboats. Unless they maneuver very well and catch you in range 3 with a TL from LRS.

Yay, maneuvering matters.