Yeah it’s definitely very different, Force Dice basicly ensure you can always succeed if you want, Narrative dice magic add deep complications at the expense of success. But with the way difficulty is determined you still have some control.

Didn't read the first page but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that someone suggested taking a page from WEG and introducing control(Brawn) sense(Cunning) and alter(willpower or maybe presence) skills. I'm also going to guess that someone suggested as single force(willpower or maybe presence) skill, or making the force a 7th attribute.

Yep.

currently my best setup is:

Force Rating becomes a 7th characteristic, but can’t be raised by Dedication, only the normal Force Rating Increase Talent. For Genesys that means a Tier 1 talent that grants Force Rating 1, and a Tier 4 ranked Talent that increases Force Rating (The minimum xp cost for FR 5 is higher in Genesys, but you can much easier be a Spell Sword because of the talent structure). Any Commit force dice action reduces this characteristic. Any powers like Enhance that combine Force dice with skill checks instead allow you to add Boost equal to your FR.

Force Skills are used to activate Force Powers , they always use your Force Characteristic to build the dice pool. 1 Skill is too few, 5 may be the limit on how many , the traditional 3 from WEG are far too unbalanced (Alter is ridiculous) .

Force Powers are rewritten. The base power will have a set difficulty in place of the normal Force Pip cost. Each upgrade that normally requires additional force Pips adds difficultly to the check instead. Some upgrades will require Advantage/Triumph to be spent. I’ll put some examples at the end of the post

( This part I’m unsure of) All Force Users may flip a Destiny Point/Story Point to reroll a number of positive dice up to their Force Characteristic when using the Force Characteristic to make a check (either as Boost dice or as part of the ability/proficiency calculation). For each die re-rolled they suffer 1 Conflict and 1 Strain. I think it’s as tempting as using the dark Force Pips for a LS character, I just don’t know if it’s too weak (no control over S/A) or overpowered.

Some power examples:

Enhance: Add boost dice to all Athletics checks you make equal to your Force Characteristic.

Force Leap; Make an Easy Control (Force) Check to move to anywhere horizontally within Short range.

Force Leap Range: Increase the Difficulty of the Force Leap Check by 1 to extend the range by 1 range band (may only be added once).

Move: Make an Easy Alter(Force) Check to move a single Silhouette 0 object within Short range to anywhere else within Short range.

Range: Increase the Difficulty by 1 to Increase the Range of the Power by 1 Range band per range upgrade purchased. (May be added multiple times).

Hurl: (this is a highly modified version obviously) The Check to activate the Move power becomes a combat check, Adversary, Defence and Defensive Talents are applies to the Difficulty. Spend A on a successful Move Check to cause one target of the power to suffer damage equal to 10 times their Silhouette (5 Damage for a Silhouette 0 object). Spend 1 Triumph to Damage every member of a target Minion group.

Back in the WEG days there were only those three skills. However, many of the powers, especially the more powerful ones, required a combination of skills, eg: Move might require a combination of Alter+Control. Per WEG rules, using more than one skill meant using more than one Action, and more than one Action increased the difficulty of the test (or reduced the number of dice available from each pool...I don't recall exactly).

So you could recategorize all the Force powers (or more powerful applications of Force powers) with multi-skill requirements. For multi-skill powers, the dice pool is the lower of the two, downgraded once for each additional skill. So a PC rolling for a skill that requires Alter+Control, and has Alter: YYGG, and Control: YYG, would be rolling YGG for their test. That might help keep the lid on power creep.

The problem with multi-skill requirements is that a character is limited to only one action per turn. As a result, you can’t perform an action requiring multiple skills since each skill use requires its own action.

You could use the Two Weapon Combat rules for a basis. I like it whafrog

34 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

The problem with multi-skill requirements is that a character is limited to only one action per turn. As a result, you can’t perform an action requiring multiple skills since each skill use requires its own action.

Already explained: use the lesser of the two and downgrade. Basically it's defining prerequisites and using the lesser skill as a power throttle.

17 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

You could use the Two Weapon Combat rules for a basis. I like it whafrog

Or that too, increasing the base difficulty.

It's some nice work you did there. Although I see you have a tad different approach to the subject at hand, maybe we could collaborate a little.

For the starters, I'm wondering how did you rewrite Protect/Unleash. I can't find THE solution because of it's direct impact on the gameplay. The simple math isn't really working because now you determine the potency of power before check, not after.

I know this might be a tad too late, however from reading through various suggestions, including this one, I think it's relatively important to point out that the use of the different attributes for each skill in genesys, represent using completely different metaphysical aspects from one another, like Primal (Cunning), Arcane (Intellect) and Divine (Willpower). So Considering this, I think it would make good sense with only one force skill linked to the 7'th characteristic - force rating, this characteristic can be raised above the usual characteristic limit of 7, because otherwise it would put a limitation on the force users that otherwise would not be there. The use force / force use skill is considered a carreer skill when the force rating 1 is acquired. This maintains various rules, like the acquirement and upgrading of force powers. In some cases I can see how it could makes sense with discipline being linked to force rating.

I think it makes great sense to add difficulty for various things, like activation of the power, upgrades and masteries. However the part about it costing 2 advantage to activate an upgrade will pose a dilemma or an outright problem when compared to how it is now, because with only 1 dice, no matter if it's an ability or proficiency, it will be impossible to actually get 1 success and 2 advantage. Even activating the power with 1 difficulty could pose a bit of challenge, as there is inherently only 50% chance of scoring at least 1 success on ability dice, 12,5% of scoring a blank, 50% chance of scoring at least 1 advantage, but advantages doesn't do anything, then add on top of this what the difficulty dice can negate.
considering the fact that the dice is similar to the abilty dice but is slightly skewed in favor of the positive dice, as it has 1 less failure on it but has 1 more threat on it. Where with the force dice it's always be possible to generate force points, light or dark. To me this reflects that there is an issue with your idea that needs to be fixed, because essentially, it will be a lot harder to use force powers than compared to the vanilla system. Furthermore, this system doesn't even reflect what normally would be possible under the vanilla system, like for instance control will require triumphs. However it does deal with something that I feel is somewhat disconnected in the vanilla system, is that skill and power don't seem to follow the lore - let me elaborate you can have a force user who's fairly weak in the force, even a FR1 who'll be able to actually, albeit not reliably, lift something like an AT&AT walker, just because he/she has spent xp on the strength upgrades which basically reflect being more skilled, not stronger - to me that doesn't seem correct according to lore - your system would currently make that more difficult, which is a good thing in my opinion.

However... I can see there is a way to possibly solve the force point generation issue that I mention above, fairly simple - here I will be assuming that the force user is attempting to generate force points, rather than beat a difficulty to succeed, but various aspects can still make the check harder to succeed in generating the intended force points. The force user can attempt to manifest whichever side of the force, however, failures will convert them to the opposite side of the intended, and only through the use of a destiny point can they be used - which in turn will make the force power be considered to be of that side of the force. If I recall correctly, you also stated that a force user under this system would only be able to generate a maximum amount of force points/successes equal to the double the force rating. In regards to the use of other resource symbols, if using force powers are to cost strain just to activate, I think it would make some sense to at least be able to regain it through spending advantages, where threat would make it even more demanding, maybe 2 advantage - recover 1 strain, 2 threat - suffer 1 addition strain.

One thing, which I feel is quite off in this game, is that it's made so that a dark side force user will not be able to use the light side, and will always be forced to use dark side points which will give it conflict. I can see why it makes sense to do it this way to make it more difficult for a dark side user to redeem him/herself, however it's just not correct in terms of lore - a dark side force user has never been barred from using the light side, for the most part there is just not much reason to be using the light side of the force, plus it is harder for a dark sider to use the light side, and thats very different from being impossible as the vanillas system has made it. I think that the force is NEUTRAL , that it's not colored, but emotion and intent will shift it from neutral to that of either light or dark. Furthermore, I think representing all dark side force user as the epitome of what is evil, is quite incorrect, as fear, anger and passion are quite far from evil, hate on the other hand could be considered evil. So personally I think it makes sense to allow for the dark side force use to be able to use light side points and for it to be considered a light side force power being use, as long as a destiny point is flipped, because it's harder to use the light side as a dark side, just not impossible.

IF going with the several force skills, it might make good sense to make them upgradeable like the force powers, in fact have the strength upgrades be handled by the skills entirely instead of the powers, and cap the amount of strength upgrades to the skill rating and the force rating - this would in my opinion at least deal with the weak force users being able to lift AT&AT walker nonsense. I think the other upgrades could just as well be handled by the force skills rather than the powers. Generally speaking, to me it seems off that the main issue with the disconnect between force power strength and the individual skill of the force powers, is that strength doesn't equal skill, but by vanilla thats exactly what it does, because there is no limit to how many times you can activate an upgrade, and each time you activate the upgrade, you get it equal to the amount of upgrades that you have. Which is why for instance the FR1 force user will be able to lift a AT&AT walker if he/she has 4 strength upgrades, because just getting 2 force points will allow the force use to activate the power and get the 4 strength upgrades, even though thats not reliable, its' still possible nonetheless - which doesn't make sense. So I think it's important enough to try an address this issue and issue similar to this that reflect a disconnect. I hope this makes sense.