I understand both sides and have my own druthers as well, but I doubt we’ll ever come to a consensus on the Ugs.

-ryanjamal

7 hours ago, DerBaer said:

because they are so bad on the other missions

*CITATION NEEDED*

7 hours ago, DerBaer said:

that noone around here plays that anymore...

You are not seeing uggnaughts for several reasons, none of which are that they are bad.

1) Fatigue. We are somewhat fortunate that the list is so boring to play, in fact so boring that I think people would only be motivated to bring it for a nationals/world type event as opposed to a 15 person regional. Unfortunately, that has the side effect of masking the ugnaught issue. People going to Worlds this year thinking ugnaughts aren't a thing are going to be in for a rude surprise I'm afraid.

2) When HotE came out, there was definitely an impression that Vader 2.0 countered it hard and Vader 2.0 was certainly popular. That certainly might have scared uggs away, but I'll be honest, I'm not sure if that fear is really warranted.

3) Since our community is generally small, I get the sense that no one really wants to be known as "that person" running ridiculously broken lists.

Quote

Q: Can I play “Element of Surprise” during an attack during
the end of a round?
A: No. “Element of Surprise” can only be played during an
activation. It cannot be played during start or end of round effects.

This changes some previous off-the-cuff rulings, eh?

8 hours ago, DerBaer said:

Actually, when have you played against a Junk Droid swarm the last time? For me, it's been a while, because they are so bad on the other missions, that noone around here plays that anymore...

A couple of weeks ago was the last I played against them.

They are not bad on other missions. There are two builds of them that are very good: IG-88 and 2x Weequays. Both of those list can handle Vader. Honestly, a Jet Trooper / eRiot list is a tougher matchup for Ugnaughts.

8 hours ago, DerBaer said:

Was going to quote more... but just going to give a general reply.

Ugnaughts aren't just good on one mission on one map. They are very good on all the missions and maps. They are essentially unbeatable on Raining Freight.

Imaging this situation- round one Worlds, you've been months getting geared up and tested for Worlds- round one- Nal Hutta- Raining Freight- and you're playing against Ugnaughts. Unless you are playing Ugnaughts as well, it's an autoloss.

There should not be an auto loss on any map vs any even semi-competitive list.

Can someone explain this to me, please?

Any effects that trigger after an attack resolves use “during an attack” resolution order.

Thanks

3 minutes ago, Golan Trevize said:

Can someone explain this to me, please?

Any effects that trigger after an attack resolves use “during an attack” resolution order.

Thanks

It means that the attacker goes first, then the defender.

Outside of an attack, the player with initiative goes first then the player without initiative, but during an attack initially of ceases to matter and it revert to attacker / defender.

3 minutes ago, ThatJakeGuy said:

It means that the attacker goes first, then the defender.

Outside of an attack, the player with initiative goes first then the player without initiative, but during an attack initially of ceases to matter and it revert to attacker / defender.

Thanks for clarifying!

I did beat an Ugnaught swarm on Raining Freight ... I think autowin/autoloss is exaggerating.

2 hours ago, DerBaer said:

I did beat an Ugnaught swarm on Raining Freight ... I think autowin/autoloss is exaggerating.

What’d you play with? How’d it go? I genuinely would like this info so people can see it.

I’m on the side it’s more risky to take the list than many people think so all the more info on how to beat them and why they shouldn’t be the list someone takes to Worlds the better!

2 sets of Hired Guns can collect crates faster than a Junk Droid. Or you use ONE Ugnaught and one set of Hired Guns. When I was in lead due to crates, my opponent was more aggressive with his IG, who died then. Then it snowballed.

Okay.... yeah... that's not an answer... running 2 of a sub-par figure or running Ugnaughts yourself is not the answer. Also, one game is nothing to base much on.

41 minutes ago, NuSair said:

Okay.... yeah... that's not an answer... running 2 of a sub-par figure or running Ugnaughts yourself is not the answer. Also, one game is nothing to base much on.

Sorry, but Hired Guns are not subpar. They don't deal any damage, but they easily make their points back in objectives.

13 minutes ago, ThatJakeGuy said:

Sorry, but Hired Guns are not subpar. They don't deal any damage, but they easily make their points back in objectives.

Not only that, but they can occasionally pull off some surprising damage if you're lucky, especially against white die figures. A few months ago, pre-HoTE, I was playing a Bantha list with some Hired Guns to grab objectives. My opponent infiltrated my backline with Luke Skywalker, and with nothing better to do on that particular mission, I had them attack him. A single set of Hired Guns managed to push 6 damage onto him! And then I got their parting shots later.

41 minutes ago, ThatJakeGuy said:

Sorry, but Hired Guns are not subpar. They don't deal any damage, but they easily make their points back in objectives.

A single instance of 'ohhh- look what this character did' is not a convincing argument. I once had a eSab hit at 9- that doesn't mean they are reliable or that should be a basis for any decision.

In following this discussion- a jank droid would just kill off the Hired Guns. And it would be turn one.

Again, a single instance of 'oh this happened' means next to nothing against mountains of other evidence.

As for Hired Guns being a subpar troop- I stick by my comment. Being able to occasionally pull off some surprising damage is not a reason to include them in a list. That's like saying a broken clock works because it's right twice a day.

9 minutes ago, NuSair said:

Again, a single instance of 'oh this happened' means next to nothing against mountains of other evidence.

As for Hired Guns being a subpar troop- I stick by my comment. Being able to occasionally pull off some surprising damage is not a reason to include them in a list. That's like saying a broken clock works because it's right twice a day.

If you had actually read my post you would have seen that I don't think they deal any damage, but that they easily make their points back in objectives. Read before you post. Hired Guns are not a combat unit, they are primo Grabbers.

2 minutes ago, ThatJakeGuy said:

If you had actually read my post you would have seen that I don't think they deal any damage, but that they easily make their points back in objectives. Read before you post. Hired Guns are not a combat unit, they are primo Grabbers.

I did read it, and addressed it, but I will spell it out.

In following this discussion- a jank droid would just kill off the Hired Guns. And it would be turn one. ADDED: So, you would get one turn (if that) of objectives.

10 minutes ago, NuSair said:

I did read it, and addressed it, but I will spell it out.

In following this discussion- a jank droid would just kill off the Hired Guns. And it would be turn one. ADDED: So, you would get one turn (if that) of objectives.

But if they're killing your hired guns, they're not killing your other stuff, right? So you run that other stuff up and shoot the ugs.

No, because you run up and you get smacked by either IG-88 (and pray they don't have Blaze of Glory in their hand) and whatever they have with him or 2x Weequays. And now you are down activations, which puts them at even a larger advantage.

I could definitely see Imperial trooper swarms spelling trouble for Ugs, as someone here suggested. Ugs excel at drawn out games of attrition and can really capitalize on opponent mistakes, but they suck at taking objectives (apart from Raining Freight). An imperial team with 2x eRiot, 2x eJet can get an upper hand on objectives and has a lot of health and defense to reach the Ugs, especially since they're probably running reinforcements.

There have been a number of unsubstantiated declarations in this thread. They amount to: 'The Ugnaught Swarm is literally unbeatable on one map, and almost unbeatable on the other maps!'

However, the evidence quite simply does not support this claim. We have another thread in this forum that posts how people have done at Regionals. Not only have Ugnaught swarms not dominated those tournaments... they have barely been mentioned as part of the cuts!

There are a lot of very competitive players here. Many of them are even practicing for Worlds in a few months. If Ugnaughts were so brokenly overpowered as these rather hysterical claims would have us believe...then where are they? Are we to believe -no one- is playing them, despite their brokenness, because (insert reason here)?

Come on.

At the regional I went to, no one played ugs. Was that choice based on stigma or not, I don't know. Worlds might be a different story though.

No one played Ugs at both of the Regionals I went to. I think it’s because many recognize it’s a list that causes rancor in the community. But come Worlds, I think more people will consider them, which is why many were hoping an FAQ would address this list before then. But now I guess we’ll see.

-ryanjamal

12 minutes ago, ryanjamal said:

No one played Ugs at both of the Regionals I went to. I think it’s because many recognize it’s a list that causes rancor in the community. But come Worlds, I think more people will consider them, which is why many were hoping an FAQ would address this list before then. But now I guess we’ll see.

-ryanjamal

Did you say...

RANCOR???

Baby come back...