Stormtroopers hit 3 shots in 8. So 5 of them will get 1.875 hits.

Rebels block 2 in 6. So 1.25 of them die.

Rebels hit 4 shots in 8. So 5 of them will get 2.5 hits.

Stormies block 3 in 6. So 1.25 die.

It's exactly the same. The difference is in keywords: Stormies do better aiming, and Rebels do better dodging *if* more than one thing is shooting at them this turn (but that's almost always the case for important squads, so...).

Long story short: heavy weapons aside, a *vanilla* squad of rebels and a squad of stormies can shoot at each other for quite a while before they'll wipe each other out.

Heavy weapons, though, should roughly double the kills if they fire, and the Stormies have the advantage there of having the really good heavy rifle for flexible anti-infantry duty. On the other hand, they need to have decent anti-armor somewhere else in the list if they don't bring the missile launchers, so swings and roundabouts.

Remember that if you have a point of suppression you get cover - that's important. It's one of the things that makes Rebels pretty resilient with dodge, since the second attacker is getting two hits removed, even in the open.

rebels are great dodgers stormtroopers not so... but 1 unit leader left in a rebel troop does not cuase damage but can still score objectives

Actually, better to answer the question with everything going in at once. We'll go with really simple odds.

Imagine you've got the starter set, and everything but Vader lays into the Rebel troops. Give the unit a Dodge, too, since why wouldn't you in the early game? My Ally is the Force is pretty much a no-brainer in the second turn, which is the only time everything in the set is likely to be shooting you anyway.

First squad of 5 stormies and a DLT-19 heavy rifle: get 1.875 hits (for the stormies) plus 1.75 hits (for the heavy). That 3.625 hits goes down to 2.625 for the dodge, and then block takes out 0.875. That leaves 1.75 kills.

Second squad does the same, only now there's a point of cover from the suppression. In the end, that's almost exactly 1 kill.

The bikes both lay in, the squad does 3.75 hits, cover and dodge reduce this to 1.75, and block will take off 0.58, so we're at 1.17 kills.

All up, with most of the starter force shooting at a rebel, with dodge but no cover, kills 4 guys on average.

Crits *can* help, but as long as there's *something* to block or dodge in the same volley, it doesn't matter (e.g. 2 hits and one crit: the crit makes no difference. One hit and one crit, *then* the crit matters, because one cover or dodge didn't help). Call it an extra death. And of course the odd aim order will probably get another one.

So if Rebel troopers in the open with dodge get focused by everything but Vader, they'll lose one squad, or thereabouts (probably have a survivor or so). On the other hand, with even soft cover, they'd probably lose maybe 3 (it'll pretty much just be crits).

...'course, Vader comes pretty close to one-rounding a squad on his own. That's why our proxy games so far have revolved around that guy: he does almost as much damage as the rest of the force put together. Speed one hurts pretty bad, though, and he's not that hard to kill...

Don't forget that with the suppression mechanics you don't need to kill units to make them combat ineffective, and destroying units isn't the only benefit of shooting them.

If an unactivated unit is not within range 1-3 of their commander, by shooting it and getting a hit you now have a 2/3 chance of depriving that unit of one of their actions for the turn.

(Everything after this point is a misunderstanding of the rules later corrected leaving as this is quoted.) With commanders this math varies due to their differing courage value, with Vader and his escorts unaffected by suppression at all.

Played the starter game at my FLGS and had a blast,

Cover is a must have, if not they die fast. For the most part it played well, can't wait to play a full game with the advanced riles.

I like the living rules. (Rules reference online that can be changed on the fly)

1 hour ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Don't forget that with the suppression mechanics you don't need to kill units to make them combat ineffective, and destroying units isn't the only benefit of shooting them.

If an unactivated unit is not within range 1-3 of their commander, by shooting it and getting a hit you now have a 2/3 chance of depriving that unit of one of their actions for the turn. With commanders this math varies due to their differing courage value, with Vader and his escorts unaffected by suppression at all.

Just a point of clarification, trooper units can use their commanders courage value when checking for panic, but not suppression. Vader is unaffacted by suppression, and while any troopers escorting him are immune to panic, they can still be suppressed.

28 minutes ago, ShadowKite said:

Just a point of clarification, trooper units can use their commanders courage value when checking for panic, but not suppression. Vader is unaffacted by suppression, and while any troopers escorting him are immune to panic, they can still be suppressed.

Ah I missed that. Thanks!