So I was thinking about a possible B-Wing/Mist Hunter Fix, and I came up with this:

Linked Targeting System:

When attacking, if you have a target lock on the defender, you may attack them with an equipped Cannon Upgrade of cost 3 or less. If you do, after that attack resolves, you may attack that same ship again with a primary weapon attack. You may not attack again this round.

System slot

Cost: 0 (1?)

I know it is very similar to TIE/D, but in the lore the mechanic of shooting multiple cannon types at once was not restricted to the Defender. Also, I put some limitations on this card to make it not a freebie.

1. Zuckuss would love this card. Hit with the tractor beam, and then attack with primaries. Finally, that useless Cannon is, well, useful.

2. You could fit 4 B-Wings in a Squad armed with Ion Cannons. Ouch. However, they all need a Target lock to actually make this work, which they probably won't get on the initial round of combat. If this is still too scary, then I'd say make it 1 point. Then you'd have to go down to Flechettes if you wanted to do the B-Wing spam.

Any thoughts? Are there ships with the cannon slot and the system slot that could abuse this?

The problem with B-wings is not that there lacking in the attack department (access to FCS, double torp slots, 3 natural attack is already a good starting point for competitive ships) but rather defense. When you have ordnance like Plasma torps that can wipe out all of your shields in one roll, or Kylo Ren who doesn't care about your shields at all, and you're only rolling 1 defense die, you'll find yourself taking ships off the board very quickly. Debris Gambit does wonders for the ship, but then you can only really pull that off with the named pilots. (Arguably only Keyan by just constantly keep him flying through Debris clouds for free stress, but then again he really wants PTL so.... eh?). So what the B-wing could really use is something to give it a slight defensive boost like (X/7), a generic with an EPT(or title to give generics an EPT), and a title that allows double mods (so we can E/2 and Chips, although I feel this could potentially break the game in a way i'm not seeing yet.)

As for your upgrade, I like it, it is definitely something the B-wing could do, however I do feel it's a little to restrictive for what you are trying to accomplish. TIE/D and BTL-A4 do not carry this restriction (On top of this you can do 4 Y's with Ion cannon turret and yield pretty much the same results) and so it doesn't feel right to slap a TL restriction on a ship with a more restrictive dial than either of those ships (Given Y-wings have to pay 1 point for an astro to open up their dial more). In fact I might go the opposite way and make this a -1 upgrade. As the way the title sits, if I saw the TL restriction and it cost 1 point I'm slapping Fcs and tractor beam on all 4 of them and calling it a day.

If I was to make changes to your title, I would drop the Target lock restriction and instead give the double tap a Cap at 3 points.

Alternatively, you could make the title so after attacking with a cannon weapon, the attacker is allowed to make a torpedo attack against them as long as you meet the requirements for that torp. Although this could get really nasty against small ships and tractor beams, so maybe not.

I came up with this idea a while ago. It has never seen table time (I haven't played in a very competitive environment yet)

High Integrity Shielding

B-Wing Only. Title.

While you have 3 or more shield tokens, ignore the first damage you suffer each time you are defending against an attack.

0 points.

I came up with this long before hearing about the Wookiee gunship, but it boils down to a super-reinforce.

Blade-wing title, -1 point: receive an evade token after performing each k-turn maneuver or barrel roll action. once per a turn you may spend 2 evade tokens while defending

slight cost reduction, encourages advanced sensor shenannagins which the B-wing has always excelled at. still keeps 5 B-wing lists out with 21 point minimum pilot cost.

Basic idea is if you bob and weave you get excellent action economy and survivability but shouldn't be too amazing. suddenly B-wings work as wingmen for a Swarm-leader ace and have some nitch roles open up. my only concern is that a late game keyan with debris gambit could block a lot of damage, but with the stupid builds out there that isn't the most broken thing. certainly easier to kill than soontir or whatever

These are some cool ideas! I think my idea would work really well as a Misy Hunter fix, but I see your points that the Bwing probably needs another fix. I really like the idea of the deflectors giving reinforce. Perhaps a System, small ship only?

18 hours ago, D34d guru said:

original post was deleted

EDIT: So I deleted my comment, too.

@SirCormac I for one like the suggestion, quite a bit. Yes it has a restriction with the Target Lock, but TIE-D Defenders and BTL Y-Wings have restrictions, too (TIE-D’s pay a premium in points seeing as they’re overcosted, and Y-Wings give up firing out of arc).

I think it’s very clever to make it a system slot, as you can’t combo it with FCS. The question is, are there any other ships with Systems and Cannons that could abuse it more than B-Wings or the Mist-Hunter could? The IGs come to mind. Lambda shuttles too, though it probably wouldn’t be too game-breaking on them. Maybe make is small ship only so that IGs don’t become broken powerful?

I playtested with mates from my LGS the addition of an extra shield when you equiped the B-wing/E2 modification card. And, that was fine. With cards like Linked Battery, Hera, Rey or Maul (on Keyan) , the ship isn't too bad.
With this little "errata", you reduce the gap between Bwing and the others more recents chassis (Auzituck, Kilmogila).

One of my problems with the ship is the lack of low value named who can be fine with a minimum of upgrade (like Jess Pava) and stay under 28-30pts.
Maybe with somes cheap named Pilot (ala Braylen or Jess in the 23-25pts) and a generic PS1 at 21pts that will be ok.

B-wing E2 needs something to be worthwhile.

I like the idea of encouraging cannon use on the B-wing. Target lock restrictions are punishing to a ship that already struggles with action efficiency.

I think they could write something where the B-wing doesn't cancel dice results when firing a cannon secondary. Or if that's too strong, add an additional damage whenever you cancel results with a cannon. Double damage ions? Tractor with a damage thrown in?

The best B Wing fix would be to remove TLTs from the game. E: and Harpoon Missiles.

Allow them to take Reinforced Deflectors.

Done.

I'd say giving them a free reinforce action after they move so long as they have shields remaining is a good way to bring them up to the current power level.

B-wings and Firesprays could both use a Vaksai like blanket discount and the ability to equip large or small ship only upgrades.

I think the B-Wing could use a title that allows it to roll more attack dice when targeting larger ships with cannons or primary weapons. The B-Wing was a Star Destroyer killer in the old EU. Perhaps adding 1 attack die against large ships, and 2 attack die against huge ships?

As for survivability, I like most of the suggestions put forth, but I think I like the "reinforce" idea best.

Here was my solution.

and

How about 'Reinforced Forward Deflectors', Small ship only. System. 1 point. When defending, if the attacker is in your firing arc, and you have shields, you may add 1 evade result.

If this could be broken on other ships, then add the clause:

You may not equip this card if your shield value is 3 or lower.

The reinforce action is made for the B-Wing.

Both the bwing and mist hunter have the same problem: they hit hard, but are bulky/slow ships that go poof quickly.

Every time i see a bwing or a mist hunter on the table and it DOESNT get instasporked, it usually does a lot of damage.

No, they need help in durability not offense. Bwings should have some kind of special shielding rule since theyre one of the few ships that have more shields than hull, and afaik theyre the only one that has more than 1 shield than hull. Something akin to hardened shields would be awesome (damage is capped at 2 if shields were involved, regardless of how many hits/crits there were)

To all of those proposing giving the Reinforce action to B-Wings, I’m curious: how do you plan to implement that when the B-Wing cardboard doesn’t have a line separating the front half from the back half?

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/267509-the-bladewing/

2 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

To all of those proposing giving the Reinforce action to B-Wings, I’m curious: how do you plan to implement that when the B-Wing cardboard doesn’t have a line separating the front half from the back half?

Technically it doesnt need it and the way they implimented the small-ship reinforce it shouldnt have it anyway.

"In arc" determines if front or rear half is being hit. Which actually makes it insanely hard to NOT be in the front of the wookieship unless youre literally behind it. Having it bound to a standard arc would be slightly in favor of the rear "arc" but only just.

I more dont want reinforce because thats going to permanently eat its action, which means PTL/EI will be a must - meaning, yet again, Keyan will be the ONLY bwing seen, but this time because he gets reinforce + mods, not he gets a free dial to abuse.

2 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

To all of those proposing giving the Reinforce action to B-Wings, I’m curious: how do you plan to implement that when the B-Wing cardboard doesn’t have a line separating the front half from the back half?

Nonepic reinforce just checks for in and out of arc, not centre line.

11 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

The problem with B-wings is not that there lacking in the attack department (access to FCS, double torp slots, 3 natural attack is already a good starting point for competitive ships) but rather defense. When you have ordnance like Plasma torps that can wipe out all of your shields in one roll, or Kylo Ren who doesn't care about your shields at all, and you're only rolling 1 defense die, you'll find yourself taking ships off the board very quickly. Debris Gambit does wonders for the ship, but then you can only really pull that off with the named pilots. (Arguably only Keyan by just constantly keep him flying through Debris clouds for free stress, but then again he really wants PTL so.... eh?). So what the B-wing could really use is something to give it a slight defensive boost like (X/7), a generic with an EPT(or title to give generics an EPT), and a title that allows double mods (so we can E/2 and Chips, although I feel this could potentially break the game in a way i'm not seeing yet.)

As for your upgrade, I like it, it is definitely something the B-wing could do, however I do feel it's a little to restrictive for what you are trying to accomplish. TIE/D and BTL-A4 do not carry this restriction (On top of this you can do 4 Y's with Ion cannon turret and yield pretty much the same results) and so it doesn't feel right to slap a TL restriction on a ship with a more restrictive dial than either of those ships (Given Y-wings have to pay 1 point for an astro to open up their dial more). In fact I might go the opposite way and make this a -1 upgrade. As the way the title sits, if I saw the TL restriction and it cost 1 point I'm slapping Fcs and tractor beam on all 4 of them and calling it a day.

If I was to make changes to your title, I would drop the Target lock restriction and instead give the double tap a Cap at 3 points.

Alternatively, you could make the title so after attacking with a cannon weapon, the attacker is allowed to make a torpedo attack against them as long as you meet the requirements for that torp. Although this could get really nasty against small ships and tractor beams, so maybe not.

The B-Wing is already a tank; if you give it reinforce (please, FFG, no more small ship reinforce!!) or more AGI, it will be broken. The two risks you list are situational, and should be present for balance.

I think the best first attempt at a fix would be to move E2 to the title slot where it should be, allowing the ship the synergy of both a crew slot and a modification. And give a generic an EPT.

And, just like the T-65, the B-Wing does great in epic, so it's not weak. It's just not meant to be a dogfighter. It's mean to be a ship-buster. Some ships, when done right, will suck in 100/6. Because they are not mean to dogfight.

56 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Nonepic reinforce just checks for in and out of arc, not centre line.

I had mis-read that the reinforce action called out the wider auxiliary arc, but you sir are correct, the reinforce action only calls out the defender's arc (regardless of what kind of arc it is). I'm essentially using @Lightningclaw's Reinforced Deflectors for Community-Mod, so I'll have to go back and tweak the card wording to be consistent with the FFG rules, and rebalance it while I'm at it. Good point!

When suffering 3 or more damage, if you have shields left, suffer 2 damage instead.

All the B Wing needs is some TLC!

And I don't mean tender loving care, but rather Twin Linked Cannon.