So we are having a local balance issue where Uthuk are on a rampage. As in the last 8 games have had me table (and 9-2 or 10-1) every opponent regardless of deployment or objective. Usually by turn 6.

We’ve had everyone bring their beatstck armies and all of them get smoked. Three different opponents running all four factions.

Im pretty sure it’s not a decisive player skill gap. Maybe 3-4 in a row, but 8 stompings straight feels more than just skill. I don’t believe I’m that good.

What are people doing to combat Uthuk? 3/8 Of the store champs I’m aware of were Uthuk wins, so some Waiqar and Latari are able to run them down to win the other 5.

The list is:

I've tried Latari and waiqar a good number of times with various lists and keep getting tabled. My main problems are dealing with even small uthuk units usually cost me one of my units, and the points trade rarely is worth it. Ravos is a wrecking ball, and commonly will clear a whole flank on his own. Between his 7 hp, brutal, precise, extra move, and wounding abilities it's an insanely powerful unit.

If I bring large units they get flanked and hit 3-4 times for their 1 attack(if they're lucky enough to not get reformed by a moral test). If I bring lots of small units they just die without any decent impact.

I know uthuk are swingy on damage and highly dependent on red runes, but even when they don't get good dice and runes it rarely seems like a match and more like a slaughter.

We did encounter a similar situation when Latari first released, but it didn't take long to find the weak spots. The first few matches I figured were just the learning curve, but multiple tablings later are making me start to question design aspects of uthuk.

I haven't played against Uthuk yet, so I can't help here I guess. But from what I have read about them, it seems like their weakness is that they are predictable at moving. So you could try evade their charges.

19 minutes ago, Athelin said:

I haven't played against Uthuk yet, so I can't help here I guess. But from what I have read about them, it seems like their weakness is that they are predictable at moving. So you could try evade their charges.

On paper they are predictable, in an MSU horde, not so much. I regularly play 3x2 deepwoods with windrune and support scion, which is the most maneuverable unit in the game, they still get caught even with blockers.

Zerkers and Threshers are pretty easy to contend with, but rippers and Ravos are something else.

Uthick do seem to require a different play style than against other armies. I wonder how much getting the command straight out helped push the difficulty of learning curve.

What I have found is that they suffer against high armor, so lancers and Oathsworn seem pretty good against them. Add shield and deathmist to Deathknights can be rather helpful too.

On other posts, people have mentioned using blight and making use of chip damage. I haven't tried heavy blight yet but a combination of Meagan's surge and a whole lot (4 2x1) of elven archers with fire runes certainly seems to do the trick.

I think MSU would be good, but without Darnati it is a bit tricker.

Someone also mentioned executioner might be better against Uthick and I can definitely see that but haven't tried it yet.

I am 4-0 locally with them, with one 7-4 win and the rest 10-1. They are difficult to deal with for sure. Even against Cavalry, I haven't had too much trouble. Ravos can tear through some Cav, Berserkers with Aggressive Shrieker can pull off some surprising charges, and the Threshers actually hold up well against Lancers.

I have not played against Latari yet, or blight-heavy Waiqar.

Uthuk have now won 5 of the thirteen Store Championships that we have data for ( https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aw2L67UukEfKuQRQpsMhFBr5GdRxS-YJgMfBmY5Yf3A/edit?usp=sharing) , which is far above the percentage of players bringing the faction. At least 3 of the thirteen (we don't have complete lists for all of them) that Uthuk did not win had no Uthuk players.

We actually have a little discussion about this on our next Initiative One episode, which will be up Wednesday night. Shane, one of the hosts, managed to beat an Uthuk list with Latari. I don't think that means we have it figured out yet, but we do speculate on some things to try. I plan to keep playing them locally, because they are super fun, so we will have some more games to look at soon.

Fortunately I think the game has enough variables that it's not going to be a situation of play Uthuk or just plan to lose, even though it might seem like it right now. As people get more games against them, it will be interesting to see what develops as a way to deal with what they can do.

We are going to try to control variables and see what changes it takes to make the list stop stomping. The variables we want to control first are:

-Player running the army: We have another Uthuk player with a lot less experience. We are going to have him try the same list, get some pointers from me, and go. If he still stomps, then it isn’t the player.

-The specific faction: I’m going to build the equivalent list in other factions as best I can and run those. If I’m still winning big, it may be the list archetype or it may be that I’ve got great instincts for that list archetype.

-Removing Ravos: I’m gonna proxy some extra models and see if Ravos is the force multiple he seems to be. A lot of matches seem to have him folding a flank by himself.

-not sure what next. Maybe removing Warsprinter and/or Insatiable Hunger breaks the list. I do tend to use Warsprinter and Hunger to move 5 straight and then get a post-everyone-else’s-move 1-2 straight/bank. That seems to really help dodging charges.

Here's the list I have been using, just for comparison's sake. I haven't tried Warsprinter at all, and haven't had to much difficulty engaging the way I want, but my build is quite different. I agree that Hunger is extremely good.

Those will be good tests to see how those variables make it shake out. I am going to see if I can get some local players to try out some things against my army to see how it goes.

Ravos the Everhungry [40] 1x1
Insatiable Hunger [3]
Total Unit Cost: 43

Berserkers [50] 3x3
Raven Tabards [2]
Aggressive Shrieker [5]
Total Unit Cost: 57

Flesh Rippers [38] 2x2
Rank Discipline [4]
Total Unit Cost: 42

Spined Threshers [28] 2x1
Total Unit Cost: 28

Spined Threshers [28] 2x1
Total Unit Cost: 28

Total: 198/200

Well I'll have to give this list a shot. Uthuk has always done well for us, but it's never really completely dominated and has lost plenty. This could be due to player skill differences or even us just using worse lists, so I'm curious to try your list.

So this thread could be sort of a tell all.

When it comes to my Uthuk, I've only lost 2 games with them. In both cases, it was Daqan that defeated me and for good reason.

I'll be the first to say that Uthuk can be defeated, Waiqar, Latari, every force has the ability. It comes down to tactics. I think that's one of the key important factors of playing Runewars is you have to adjust your tactics based on the army that is on the opposite side of the field.

So where are the Uthuk weak?

1) Defense: None of the Uthuk units have really high defense. Something to block so another unit with arrows/fire ruin can be pretty effective. Remember to concentrate. A dead unit can't hurt you. Two wounded units can.

2) Movement : Yes you read that right movement. See Uthuk are fast, yet with speed comes the reality that Uthuk can't really turn very well. To turn they really have to slow down. Ravos if you have Insatiable Hunger can turn with his movement in the end phase. Flesh Rippers don't have a turning charge.

3) Morale: One of the build types Uthuk can aim for is trying for panic effects. That's still a draw of cards and depends to some extent on luck. You might get that 3-4 card panic but if the cards are crap, so much for turning someone around or removing a tray or other 'fun' results.

I have a few more thoughts but will have to save them for later...

59 minutes ago, tgall said:

So this thread could be sort of a tell all.

When it comes to my Uthuk, I've only lost 2 games with them. In both cases, it was Daqan that defeated me and for good reason.

I'll be the first to say that Uthuk can be defeated, Waiqar, Latari, every force has the ability. It comes down to tactics. I think that's one of the key important factors of playing Runewars is you have to adjust your tactics based on the army that is on the opposite side of the field.

So where are the Uthuk weak?

1) Defense: None of the Uthuk units have really high defense. Something to block so another unit with arrows/fire ruin can be pretty effective. Remember to concentrate. A dead unit can't hurt you. Two wounded units can.

2) Movement : Yes you read that right movement. See Uthuk are fast, yet with speed comes the reality that Uthuk can't really turn very well. To turn they really have to slow down. Ravos if you have Insatiable Hunger can turn with his movement in the end phase. Flesh Rippers don't have a turning charge.

3) Morale: One of the build types Uthuk can aim for is trying for panic effects. That's still a draw of cards and depends to some extent on luck. You might get that 3-4 card panic but if the cards are crap, so much for turning someone around or removing a tray or other 'fun' results.

I have a few more thoughts but will have to save them for later...

Hm. I agree with 1. Uthuk do not slow down incoming damage at all. Highest armor achievable being 3 without terrain and that’s on Ravos (who really shouldn’t be using that modifier unless rallying off a lot of banes).

2 I don’t really worry about. I’m running what is almost a true MSU. I’m not worried about you shifting. The ability to reform and march on Threshers and Berserkers beats out shifts to me. Especially with Aggresive Shrieker.

3) I dont really buy this one either, though I did think this for a while. I guess I’m not so worried about drawing a dud set of three morale cards when I generate multiple severity three or worse tests on my opponent’s army per turn.

EDIT: 3 May be true for Uthuk armies with less dials though. I am running 7.

I wonder if cards like Lion Standard Bearer and Cursed Signets might be useful. Yeah, you take wounds,l with Signets, but losing 4-8 Infantry from that compared to losing 15 when I trigger a betrayal on you may very well pay off. Steadfast also seems like it might help. There is another banner that reduces number of cards drawn for panic tests. Is it time to bust that out?

I also feel like Maegan should be a pretty rough force against Uthuk, but I keep managing to kill her or dodge her before she gets a good surge off.

Trouble is that I need to face Uthuk more to learn to counter them. Maybe have my opponents and I swap armies and play a second game next time I’m out gaming

Not sure about other store champs, but the one at FFG very few of us had ever played against uthak so that was a big part of it. Not to take anything away from @tgall , he ran them very well, just saying that they may have been closer games vs the slaughter that they were with a little more experience against them.

I lost my first game with them, but that was also because I forgot a few things that would have helped me a lot. I didn't take a few things into account. I was beat by Latari with many blockers and two 3x2 archers raining down on my parade. My dice rolls on several occasions were very lucky. I also mistimed a charge and got counter charged and killed with my thresher from Aliaana

Armor is key

golems are super strong with wind Rune to move and armor up to 5 or 6 at initiave 3.

knights will visored helms

kari in a spear unit using surge

aliana summer song kills Ravos well

maegans aoe damage

scions

armored up lancers

Deathknights

2 tray shooters stand behind armored 4+ units

its all about tons of armor and tons of low strength attacks

All infantry struggled but visored helm spearman with Kari

Archers and crossbows with wind Rune behind rows of armored up single monsters

Kari Dialing in Accuracy was beautiful, this morning killed warsprinter on turn 2 and agressive shrieker on turn 3.

also if she dials in accuracy and gets just one hit and 1 accuracy on the dice she kills both in 1 turn.

All this accuracy talk is really making me want to start practicing with Profane Banner Bearer.