hey @a1bert !

in your fantastic timing thread, https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1631857/ability-resolution-order-during-attacks/page/1, you have focus being applied in step 2 of the attack, though you have a note that the card says declaration (step 1). Is there a ruling that says step 2? When is the dice actually added to the dice pool? I'm thinking of a fringe case, with some Greedo on Greedo action.

(EDIT: that’s been updated to step 1 in the great ability resolution thread)

Scenario:

1. Greedo A (focused) declares attack against Greedo B.

2. Greedo B triggers Slow on the Draw, and declares an attack on Greedo A.

3. Greedo A (still focused, no attacks have resolved) then triggers Slow on the Draw and declares an attack on Greedo B.

In attack 1, Greedo is focused at the declaration, and adds a green dice to the attack pool, creating a pool of GGG. Slow on the Draw shenanigans play out, and in attack 3, the Focused condition has not been discarded, so Greedo adds a green dice to the attack pool. Once attack 3 resolves, the focus condition is discarded. Attack 2 resolves. We then return to attack 1, which seems to have a set dice pool (GGG), and continue on to step 2. Is this accurate?

GIA

So the question is when does the 1st attack consider to be resolved since it is interrupted by 2 other attacks. I would think the focus is discarded after #3 since focus states that it is discarded after you resolve "AN attack," meaning it would be discarded after before moving on to #2 or #1 (#2 is still relevant because the opponent could play something like "Disorient" to get rid of the focus condition before #1)

20 minutes ago, TheWelcomeMat88 said:

So the question is when does the 1st attack consider to be resolved since it is interrupted by 2 other attacks. I would think the focus is discarded after #3 since focus states that it is discarded after you resolve "AN attack," meaning it would be discarded after before moving on to #2 or #1 (#2 is still relevant because the opponent could play something like "Disorient" to get rid of the focus condition before #1)

the heart of the question is "when is the focus applied?". if it's applied at the declaration (step 1) as the condition card says, then the green dice was already added to the pool when you return. If the focus is applied during step 2 as noted in the timing reference thread on boardgamegeek, then the rest of the scenario is moot.

1 hour ago, Fightwookies said:

in your fantastic timing thread, https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1631857/ability-resolution-order-during-attacks/page/1, you have focus being applied in step 2 of the attack, though you have a note that the card says declaration (step 1). Is there a ruling that says step 2?

In the case you show Greedo A gets the benefit of Focused for both attacks, because one didn't discard the focused before the second attack started. The same happens with attack + Slow On the Draw + Parting Shot. Both the original attack and Parting Shot have the die from the same focused .

Focused adds the green die when the attack is declared, but there are abilities that grant focused when declaring target. Focused is a core/mission rule, but the attacker abilities giving focused is with attacker timing. The intent, however, is to have and use and discard focused in the same attack.

This can be resolved in several ways:
1. New abilities use "before declaring target" - but it would require errata to some of the core cards, which should be avoided if possible
2. Adding the green die before rolling, because it adds or removed dice. It's against the condition card wording though, so that would need an errata.
3. The literal way, focused adds a green die when the attack is declared. You then interpret core rules to be performed "with priority" instead of all core rules first. This allows (e.g.) conditions gained from the same trigger to be resolved and affect the same attack.

As far as I know, 3. is what FFG would rule / has ruled. I just haven't updated it.

So in short, both attacks get focused?

The focused condition exists when declaring both attacks, so both attacks have the green die from focused . Whichever attack resolves first will discard the focused condition, but the die has already been added to the attack pool if the original attack ever continues resolving. (By RAW)

36 minutes ago, a1bert said:

The focused condition exists when declaring both attacks, so both attacks have the green die from focused . Whichever attack resolves first will discard the focused condition, but the die has already been added to the attack pool if the original attack ever continues resolving. (By RAW)

Ok cool. That distinction would be important i guess if the opponent played "Disorient" after their attack and before the final (and original) attack.

What if Greedo B is focused instead, and he get's both the Slow on the Draw attack and then a parting shot?

What if Greedo B get's killed and parting shot kills focused Greedo A. Does Greedo A get the extra green die on his parting shot (as his original attack is still not resolved)?

I.e. does Greedo A get his extra green die a third time?

Because a focused Greedo hasn't yet resolved an attack he gets a green die from focused to his Parting Shot attack.

(I don't have the energy to see if three uses of focused is actually happening. You have to write out the sequence fully.)

I've been meaning to make some sort of graphical illustration of the Russian Doll-like nested attacks to disentangle the mess that is Greedo.

Even so, I think the issue with Greedo is two-fold.

A) that we miss additional clarifications of when and how an attack is aborted (and thus considered resolved even if it didn't make it through all the seven steps of the attack) beyond the rules clarification given by the developers in the context of Death-by-Relentless some years ago.

B) and perhaps a FAQ entry is needed on Greedo as well, as it seems - to me - that played by the book, Greedo get an unfairly amount of benefit from being Focused. Especially when two Greedos face off.

1 minute ago, a1bert said:

Because a focused Greedo hasn't yet resolved an attack he gets a green die from focused to his Parting Shot attack.

This was discussed at length on Facebook recently - probably in one of the groups you're not in, so we missed your expert input.

The argument didn't rely on when the dice is spent, but on the fact that the Focused condition isn't removed when the die is spent and instead only when an attack is resolved - and since attacks start getting "put on pause" while secondary and tertiary attacks are nested within them without being resolved, leaving the condition on.

1 hour ago, a1bert said:

I don't have the energy to see if three uses of focused is actually happening. You have to write out the sequence fully.

Greedo A attacks Greedo B, both focused, both LoS to each other. Greedo A activates his focus.

Greedo B triggers Greedo A's Slow On The Draw and declares an attack on Greedo A. Greedo B activates his focus.

Then Greedo A triggers Greedo B's Slow On The Draw and declares an attack on Greedo B. Greedo A's focus is still active, as the original attack is not resolved.

Greedo A shoots Greedo B with 3 green dice but does not kill Greedo B (Slow On The Draw attack).

Greedo B shoots Greedo A with 3 green dice but does not kill Greedo A (Slow On The Draw attack).

Greedo A shoots Greedo B with 3 green dice and kills Greedo B (original attack).

Greedo B shoots Greedo A (Parting Shot). Question 1: Does he use 3 green dice as the original attack from Greedo A is still not resolved, or did he discard his focus token, when he resolved his first Slow On The Draw attack?

Greedo B kills Greedo A with his Parting Shot and triggers Greedo A's Parting Shot. Greedo A declares an attack on another target. Question 2: Does he use 3 green dice as his original attack is still not resolved?

31 minutes ago, DerBaer said:

1.Greedo A attacks Greedo B, both focused, both LoS to each other. Greedo A activates his focus.

2.Greedo B triggers Greedo A's Slow On The Draw and declares an attack on Greedo A. Greedo B activates his focus.

3.Then Greedo A triggers Greedo B's Slow On The Draw and declares an attack on Greedo B. Greedo A's focus is still active, as the

4.Greedo A shoots Greedo B with 3 green dice but does not kill Greedo B (Slow On The Draw attack). Resolves, focused discarded

5.Greedo B shoots Greedo A with 3 green dice but does not kill Greedo A (Slow On The Draw attack). Resolves , focused discarded

6.Greedo A shoots Greedo B with 3 green dice and kills Greedo B (original attack).

7.Greedo B shoots Greedo A (Parting Shot).

8.Greedo B kills Greedo A with his Parting Shot and triggers Greedo A's Parting Shot. Greedo A declares an attack on another target.

9. Greedo A defeated after Parting Shot resolves, Greedo B defeated after Parting Shot reseolves.

Added numbers to make referring easier and also comments. So, as far as I follow:

Question 1: Does he use 3 green dice as the original attack from Greedo A is still not resolved, or did he discard his focus token, when he resolved his first Slow On The Draw attack?

A1: In 5. Greedo B resolved an attack and discarded focused. So, unless Greedo B received focused from that attack, B doesn't have focused for the attack 7.

Question 2: Does he use 3 green dice as his original attack is still not resolved?

A2: Greedo A resolved an attack in 4 and discarded focused. Unless he received focused from that attack, Greedo A doesn't have focused for the attack in 8.

So, Greedo gets at most 2 uses of focused.

But by your logic, Greedo A discards focused in step 4. Therefore, he doesn't have it in step 6. Therefore, Greedo A gets only 1 one use of focused.

In case you have missed it, I have corrected the timing mistake on the attack resolution list.

I.e. Focused adds the green die when the attack is declared, and being a condition, it happens before Slow On the Draw.

Missed that one.

10 minutes ago, a1bert said:

Focused adds the green die when the attack is declared,

When is the dice pool actually formed? I thought the dice pool is formed in STEPS OF AN ATTACK 2. Roll dice

Actually, this question aims for IG-88 shooting a smuggler, that plays Run for cover. When does IG-88 form his dice pool? Or: When does he choose which dice to use for Arsenal? On Declare or on 2. Roll dice?

I actually thought, the dice pool doesn't even exist before 2. Roll dice.

The attack and defense pools exist from the start of the attack (and sometimes technically even before), otherwise focused could not add to it when the attack is declared. In the case of heroes that have more than one weapon, they must declare one weapon to use for the attack (this seems like a core rule so happens first), otherwise the attack pool comes from either the ability telling to perform an attack with specified dice, or from the deployment or companion card. (Close And Personal, Close Quarters, Tusken Cycler...)

Abilities with "while attacking/defending" modify the dice pools just before rolling dice. Abilities with explicit timing do their thing with that explicit timing.

IG-88 forms the attack pool at the start of the attack, but it is adding two ? dice to the pool. They are decided just before rolling dice. (I think this was confirmed by some distant/recent ruling, perhaps in the FAQ now.)

So is the following order correct?

1. Greedo A attacks Greedo B, both focused, both LoS to each other. Greedo A adds a green die to his dice pool for this attack, because he is focused.

2. Greedo B triggers Greedo A's Slow On The Draw and declares an attack on Greedo A. Greedo B adds a green die to his dice pool for this attack, because he is focused.

3. Greedo A triggers Greedo B's Slow On The Draw and declares an attack on Greedo B. Greedo A is still focused, because he has not resolved an attack so far. Therefore, Greedo A adds a green die to his dice pool for this attack.

4. Greedo A shoots Greedo B with 3 green dice but does not kill Greedo B (Slow On The Draw attack). Greedo A resolves this attack and therefore loses the focused condition.

5. Greedo B shoots Greedo A with 3 green dice but does not kill Greedo A (Slow On The Draw attack). Greedo B resolves this attack and therefore loses the focused condition.

6. Greedo A shoots Greedo B with 3 green dice and kills Greedo B (original attack). Greedo A gets the extra green die, because when he declared this attack, he was still focused.

7. Greedo B shoots Greedo A (Parting Shot). He is no longer focused and therefore he rolls 2 green dice.

8. Greedo B kills Greedo A with his Parting Shot and triggers Greedo A's Parting Shot. Greedo A declares an attack on another target. He is no longer focused and therefore he rolls 2 green dice.

A completely new question: Is the following correct?

1. Focused Greedo attacks an elite Weequay, both have LoS to each other. Greedo adds a green die to his dice pool for this attack, because he is focused.

2. The Weequay triggers Greedo's Slow On The Draw and declares an attack on Greedo. The Weequay shoots and kills Greedo.

3. Greedo triggers Parting Shot before being defeated and gets an additional green die for still being focused, because Greedo's original attack is not resolved yet.

35 minutes ago, DerBaer said:

A completely new question: 3. Greedo triggers Parting Shot before being defeated and gets an additional green die for still being focused, because Greedo's original attack is not resolved yet.

I think it's one of the oldest questions. Yes.

And to the previous one: yes, it seems like the one I quoted and edited.

Thank you so much.