so it seems guesses about there being no agreed upon overarching story were wrong, it's just that rian ignored it.

Which means and preset plans for the third movie really are well and truly banjaxed.

“Here’s what I think I know. J. J. wrote Episode VII, as well as drafts for VIII & IX. Then Rian Johnson arrived and wrote TLJ entirely. I believe there was some sort of general consensus on the main lines of the trilogy, but apart from that, every director writes and realizes his film in his own way. Rian Johnson and J. J. Abrams met to discuss all of this, although Episode VIII is still his very own work. I believe Rian didn’t keep anything from the first draft of Episode VIII.”

Quote

Also known as, the process of making a movie. ****, the story can even change after filming.

Part of me wonders if this isn't just them trying to throw Rian under the bus so that they can rebuild faith up in episode 9. I would hope that there would be some people questioning his decisions if it would lead to a harder to connect trilogy than what was planned (if anything was planned). Rian kept making the point of how much freedom he was given so it just makes me question this point is all, it might just me being silly/overthinking though.

Also...

2 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

Here’s what I think I know.

She doesn't really know. Not that I care if it's the truth or not. Won't change the final product.

That's true nothing could improve that dumpster fire.

To be honest Rian made a better, if only marginally, movie than JJ

19 minutes ago, Jabby said:

To be honest Rian made a better, if only marginally, movie than JJ

37 minutes ago, Jabby said:

To be honest Rian made a better, if only marginally, movie than JJ

20 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

Part of me wonders if this isn't just them trying to throw Rian under the bus so that they can rebuild faith up in episode 9. I would hope that there would be some people questioning his decisions if it would lead to a harder to connect trilogy than what was planned (if anything was planned). Rian kept making the point of how much freedom he was given so it just makes me question this point is all, it might just me being silly/overthinking though.

Well they gave this Johnson moron another entire trilogy so I'm not much seeing the point in throwing him under the bus. They didn't do the proper work before starting writing on TFA. They just dove in. I doubt they even had an outline for the trilogy. They made a hash of the whole thing from the get go.

Please, like no other successful trilogies did not have an outline. ****, the OT did not have an outline, as evidence as how Lucas continually changes his story about how many parts he had planned.

14 hours ago, Sithborg said:

Please, like no other successful trilogies did not have an outline. ****, the OT did not have an outline, as evidence as how Lucas continually changes his story about how many parts he had planned.

I couldn't wait to go see ROTJ. I'm probably not going to pay them for a ticket to any more of these movies. I'd argue they don't have a successful trilogy.

And they're not just making a trilogy now are they? They're making a trilogy and another trilogy and spinoff films. They needed to sit down before they even started on scripts and just figure out how the universe was going to work. What would be the limits on The Force. What would be the limits on the tech. What could you and couldn't you do with it. How would the politics work. But they couldn't be bothered with any of that and now they have a big mess I don't care about.

4 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

I couldn't wait to go see ROTJ. I'm probably not going to pay them for a ticket to any more of these movies. I'd argue they don't have a successful trilogy.

I feel the same. I can't think of any reason to be excited about the final film in the sequel trilog. At least the prequels had the suspense and payoff of seeing Anakin's fall to the dark side. Ruin Johnson's effort has left us with pretty much nothing. It's hard to argue that they've not been successful from a purely financial perspective, though.

I can see the next 5-10 years being Dizney furiously flailing about, course-correcting with anthology films and TV/animated series, trying to add context and subtext to the sequels that should have been there in the first place.

[10 Years From Now] "Oh yeah, I just watched The Last Jedi and it was amazing, how they tied all those arcs from The Resistance series and DJ: A Star Wars Story into it!" [/10 Years From Now]

shrug

If the prequels didn't destroy Star Wars, these movies won't.

13 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

shrug

If the prequels didn't destroy Star Wars, these movies won't.

Maybe not. But then the prequels actually added to the original trilogy's story. So far the sequels have only taken away...

How, how does it take away from the OT story?

It does nothing to the OT story, like it should. A big, BIG thing about TLJ was about handing the torch to the next generation. Luke, Han, Leia had their story. This is Rey, Finn, Poe, and Kylo's story. If the issue is that they are at war again, well, I think you need to check the title of the series again. The mere existence of a sequel trilogy meant the OT was going to essentially fail in many people's mind.

35 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

How, how does it take away from the OT story?

It does nothing to the OT story, like it should. A big, BIG thing about TLJ was about handing the torch to the next generation. Luke, Han, Leia had their story. This is Rey, Finn, Poe, and Kylo's story. If the issue is that they are at war again, well, I think you need to check the title of the series again. The mere existence of a sequel trilogy meant the OT was going to essentially fail in many people's mind.

TLJ turned Luke Skywalker into a man who would consider murdering his sleeping nephew out of fear he would turn to evil. This action turned his nephew evil and Luke then hid away and wallowed in self-pity. The triumph of the OT is Luke's belief in the good that was still in his father. His father had done evil. Luke is a man who is going to think for even a microsecond that he won't be able to keep his not yet fallen nephew from the darkness?

Luke is a man who believes in the good in people. Who by that earnest belief brings out the good in people. TLJ turned that man into someone who would do evil and would then stand by while the evil he caused came to fruition. That's a pretty big takeaway from the OT story.

They gave him a moment of doubt. And as a result of that action, Luke thought he couldn't be the hero everyone wanted him to be.

15 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

They gave him a moment of doubt. And as a result of that action, Luke thought he couldn't be the hero everyone wanted him to be.

1 hour ago, Sithborg said:

If the issue is that they are at war again, well, I think you need to check the title of the series again.

There were plenty of ways to set up conflict in a new trilogy of films without resorting to "everything the protagnists of the original films achieved doen't matter because FIRST ORDER OUT OF NOWHERE".

You want to pass the torch to a new generation of characters? Fine - great, even! But don't try to make them look like big heroes by making the original characters look like massive failures. that's how the WWE tries to build up new characters, and it doesn't work there either.

2 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

There were plenty of ways to set up conflict in a new trilogy of films without resorting to "everything the protagnists of the original films achieved doen't matter because FIRST ORDER OUT OF NOWHERE".

You want to pass the torch to a new generation of characters? Fine - great, even! But don't try to make them look like big heroes by making the original characters look like massive failures. that's how the WWE tries to build up new characters, and it doesn't work there either.

I'm still perplexed by how many people are willing to give "The Force Awakens" a pass for taking away the happy ending of "Return of the Jedi."

Rian Johnson did make a better movie than The Force Awakens!

Unfortunately, he also made a terrible movie, and then smashed the two movies together as hard as he could.

19 minutes ago, nexttwelveexits said:

Rian Johnson did make a better movie than The Force Awakens!

Unfortunately, he also made a terrible movie, and then smashed the two movies together as hard as he could.

TLJ did often play like a peeing contest between Rian and JJ.

50 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

I'm still perplexed by how many people are willing to give "The Force Awakens" a pass for taking away the happy ending of "Return of the Jedi."

See, I was OK with Han's death as far as servicing the story (such as it was) - in fact, I pretty much expect that Harrison Ford had it written into the contract that Han would bite the big one - but yeah, the way the romance between Han and Leia was ended was awful. Unfortunately Ruin managed to turn the awfulness up to eleven with his treatment of pretty much every remaining original trilogy character bar Nien Nunb.

7 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

TLJ did often play like a peeing contest between Rian and JJ.

Yeah, very much so. Too much so. Watching both films back to back I couldn't help but wonder if certain parts were a deliberate FU from Ruin to JarJar.

In unrelated news, I saw a quote from Daisy saying that she didn't want any kind of romance for Rey in the final film. Because God forbid that hollow shell of a character is given any kind of progression or development at all.

Probably a blessing in disguise, to be honest. Given the lack of chemistry amongst the cast, any attempt to create a romance for Rey would probably come off more forced than that cringeworthy Finn/Rose kiss.

One of the things that gets me about TFA is that Han going out like a chump is the least of its sins.

I don't think I'd care to see Rey in a romance with any of the characters we have thus far. "Forced" and "cringe worthy" would likely hardly cover it.

1 hour ago, Frimmel said:

One of the things that gets me about TFA is that Han going out like a chump is the least of its sins.

I don't think I'd care to see Rey in a romance with any of the characters we have thus far. "Forced" and "cringe worthy" would likely hardly cover it.

You clearly haven't read my Rey / GhostYoda fanfic yet.