Hey all

So as much as I am a big fan of Star Wars, I'm a bigger fan of the Lord of the Rings. I'm also really enjoying the mechanics that FFG has come up with so I figured why not combine the two and do a reskin of this system for a the lotr universe!

The reason I'm posting on here is because I figured Force and Destiny setting would be best for this because the lightsaber stances may translate to some pretty cool sword fighting in a lotr setting. It seems fairly straight forward so far, a lot of the gear and weapons that would be used (axes, bows and some armour) already has stats, and creating different races/species like the various human groups etc is coming along nicely, and the setting should provide some pretty awesome adventures.

One problem I've run into though is the integrated force powers of specializations. Lotr has very little magic, so the force powers don't really fit. Has anyone tried to remove the force powers from specializations, and if so how did you do it and how did it go?

I'm also looking for any views/advice/questions on this subject. Looking forward to hearing from you lot! If people are interested I can make some later posts on the progress I make.

1 hour ago, Rabobankrider said:

Hey all

So as much as I am a big fan of Star Wars, I'm a bigger fan of the Lord of the Rings. I'm also really enjoying the mechanics that FFG has come up with so I figured why not combine the two and do a reskin of this system for a the lotr universe!

The reason I'm posting on here is because I figured Force and Destiny setting would be best for this because the lightsaber stances may translate to some pretty cool sword fighting in a lotr setting. It seems fairly straight forward so far, a lot of the gear and weapons that would be used (axes, bows and some armour) already has stats, and creating different races/species like the various human groups etc is coming along nicely, and the setting should provide some pretty awesome adventures.

One problem I've run into though is the integrated force powers of specializations. Lotr has very little magic, so the force powers don't really fit. Has anyone tried to remove the force powers from specializations, and if so how did you do it and how did it go?

I'm also looking for any views/advice/questions on this subject. Looking forward to hearing from you lot! If people are interested I can make some later posts on the progress I make.

Get Genesys RPG which in case you didnt know is the generic narrative dice system based on the same game mechanics. In fact it is about ot get its first "theme" book which is fantasy based on the world of Terrinoth. There is no need to reskin it , they have effectively given you the system to let you reskin the game to many rpg ideas and the quality of some of the fan stuff so far is nothing short of superb from the ones I have seen.

Ah ok, I'll take a look at it, thanks for your advice!

And you have my Axe!

Wait this isn't the council of Elrond...

If we believe, it can be!

I think it’s possible to do it either way. There are some things the characters do that are beyond what we would call normal, using FaD you’re simply describing the Force talents in different ways, such as an Elf using Impossible Fall. Remove Conflict/Morality from the system, assume everyone is a Light Side Character. Then Dark Pips simply mean you have to exert yourself more to complete that task.

Genesys is both easier and harder. Magic is especially removed. Just come up with a few species with sub-species options. It’s the Talents that require all the effort, if this is simply for your group then just make things up as the players want them.

Ah ok, that's an very good point to be fair. I might look into reskinning it anyway as I currently don't habe the Genesys book. I think there's a couple of abilities I'd habe to remove such as force assault but I think you're right about the rest.

For species I've actually been using the Total War Third Age mod to get some ideas for different species (High elves and wood elves, the different races of men etc) which seems to ve going well so far.

I'm currently going over the specializations to see which ones fit best in terms of talents for the setting. There's actually quite a few that work pretty well like big game hunter form EotE for rangers.

As syrath mentioned it's going to be a lot easier if you get the Genesys RPG and use it. It already has, and will likely have even more published later, a good foundation for LotR.

I'll take a look at it and see what I think. My main reason for going rhe reskin route was I already had the star wars books and stuff.

On 3/3/2018 at 5:06 PM, Rabobankrider said:

One problem I've run into though is the integrated force powers of specializations. Lotr has very little magic, so the force powers don't really fit. Has anyone tried to remove the force powers from specializations, and if so how did you do it and how did it go?

I'm also looking for any views/advice/questions on this subject. Looking forward to hearing from you lot! If people are interested I can make some later posts on the progress I make.

Just make everything a light spell, because that's all Gandalf did

And I'm kind of serious there, but also joking. As to the other powers, honestly I'd leave out most of them, as there isn't really an equivalent for LOTR.

I'd keep Foresee, because several people did scrying type things, and possibly Seek, though that was possibly just more Foresee.

I'd maybe keep the Heal/Harm spell, Move (solely based on when Gandalf and Sauruman fought and they tossed each other around), Protect/Unleash (just reskin the particle effects), Misdirect/Influence, for that thing Gandalf did to freak out Bilbo at the start of the movie.

And...yeah that's about all I can think of offhand. I don't remember the books, like at all, I personally found them very boring.

That seems like a decent idea, To be fair the magic in the books and stuff was pretty low with only a few people being able to use it so it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

I think your best bet is to keep gear mundane, and have "magic" weapons be the ones that have things like Breach, or Viscous, etc. So that there is a distinct difference in using Regular Sword from Blacksmith A, and Glamdring the Foe Hammer.

Or at least if the basic weapons have those traits, (which does make sense for armor piercing weapons and such), limit them to 1 rank, but the magic weapons would be the ones that could have 2+ ranks in those traits. So you could honestly say "Yes, your sword could potentially break the opponent's sword...however Orcrist the Goblin Cleaver, or the sword Aragorn had (forget it's name), is capable of cutting through half a dozen blades in a single swing. Because you know, Magic Sword. (translate, it's got Breach 3 and Sunder, etc)

That seems like a good idea. Fortunately there is stuff like basic swords and axes and spears already in game so there is a good base for the set up.

1 hour ago, KungFuFerret said:

I think your best bet is to keep gear mundane, and have "magic" weapons be the ones that have things like Breach, or Viscous, etc. So that there is a distinct difference in using Regular Sword from Blacksmith A, and Glamdring the Foe Hammer.

Or at least if the basic weapons have those traits, (which does make sense for armor piercing weapons and such), limit them to 1 rank, but the magic weapons would be the ones that could have 2+ ranks in those traits. So you could honestly say "Yes, your sword could potentially break the opponent's sword...however Orcrist the Goblin Cleaver, or the sword Aragorn had (forget it's name) , is capable of cutting through half a dozen blades in a single swing. Because you know, Magic Sword. (translate, it's got Breach 3 and Sunder, etc)

The Sword of Gondor or Andruil reforged from the shards of Narsil the sword of Elendil.

47 minutes ago, Shlambate said:

The Sword of Gondor or Andruil reforged from the shards of Narsil the sword of Elendil.

And yes, that's the one I meant

Late to the party, but for what it's worth, my $2.

While I love the system for use in SW, I think its a terrible fit for Tolkien's world. There is a generic system that was born of this one called 'Genysis', but again, the magic system is a lousy fit for Middle Earth, it seems geared for generic high-fantasy wizards-everywhere like Terrinoth.

If you actually want to feel like you are adventuring in Middle Earth, you really shouldn't look any further than 'One Ring'. It's a bespoke-built system that's geared towards modelling the kind of characters, adventures and stories in Tolkien's books. It's one of the most flavourful systems I've ever seen - and the artwork and lore are absolutely superb. It's made by a bunch of Italian guys who eat, drink and breathe Tolkien and it is both a labour of love and a work of art.

There's also a watered-down, lighter version that's compatible with D&D 5th edition, made by the same people, called 'Adventures in Middle Earth'. Personally I feel D&D isn't a good fit for Tolkien's world, but AIME is a decent enough conversion in itself. The only drawbacks are a) if you want to play full D&D, why not do that, instead of a diluted version, and b) if you want to play in Middle Earth, 'One Ring' exists and it's vastly better.

If you really are intent on trying to convert LotR to this system, you could look at Warhammer Fantasy 3, which is out of print now but was the system that birthed the current Star Wars games. The FFG WHFRP3 products are outstandingly good, though the system was never finished, and tonally the dark fantasy of Warhammer is very different from Middle Earth. But if you wanted to adopt a fantasy conversion, you'll might find it helpful.

If you want to look at older games, the big one is MERP, and you should still be able to find of lot of the ICE stuff on the second-hand market. Problem is that for many, Rolemaster was a terrible fit for simulating a Tolkienesque world. However, there's a LOT of books and much of Middle Earth is meticulously detailed there, so it's worth a look. For my money, there was a short-lived rules-lite version called 'Lord of the Rings Adventure Game' which was much, MUCH better at getting the style and tone right. I actually prefer their Fellowship to Tolkien's! Lavishly illustrated by Liz Danforth, it's a little gem of a system and the adventures are excellent. Hard to find these days though I'd imagine.

So... If you really want to feel you are in Tolkein's Middle Earth (or Jackson's films), with characters and adventures that perfectly fit the mythos, then you want One Ring. No question about that.

If you just want a standard D&D game with a Tolkienesque 'skin', then AIME would likely suit your needs.

If you have a lot of time and effort and want to change an existing system, you could look at WHFRP3 and Genysys, though it seems a lot of work when there are already good games on the market.

Marcy

29 minutes ago, Maelora said:

Late to the party, but for what it's worth, my $2.

While I love the system for use in SW, I think its a terrible fit for Tolkien's world. There is a generic system that was born of this one called 'Genysis', but again, the magic system is a lousy fit for Middle Earth, it seems geared for generic high-fantasy wizards-everywhere like Terrinoth.

Do you really even need much of a magic system for Middle Earth? I mean, if the GM is using the canon lore, then pretty much nobody is able to use magic, like at all. So unless someone is playing one of the People of Power, as written down in the SalamanderMandingo, or is one of the Chromatics like Gandalf the *Insert Color*, or *Other Person* the *Insert Color*, do you really even need a magic system?

I'm genuinely curious, as I personally found the books to be a tedious slog to read, and I literally had to be tripping on acid to get through Fellowship of the Ring. Yes, really, LSD is the only reason I could keep interested in FotR. But basically nobody who would be considered a PC protagonist, is likely going to see anything more than a magic blade here or there, if that. So it seems like a fairly mundane (literally) setting if you ask me, based on my memory of the books and films.

Actually Ferret, One Ring has quite a bit of subtle magic in it, though nothing too flashy. Dwarves , believe it or not, get a range of spells regarding sealing and opening, talking to birds, that sort of thing. Elves of all types get subtle magic too. Beornings can shape-change. Woodmen make magic with healing and songs and bonding with animal companions.

As to whether it's 'mundane'...? I dunno. I appreciate it's an acquired taste and the books can be a slog (the movies actually work well for a lot of people who disliked the books).

It's NOT a high-magic, wizards-blasting-each-other-with-fireballs setting for the most part (though all that happens , even in the books... it just doesn't happen on the streets of Bree...). But neither is it a swords-and-sorcery, Conan-style world where magic is either weak or absent.

Best way I describe it is 'rare magic'. Magic exists, it's very often awesomely potent, but it exists outside of the grasp of normal folks. It's not like D&D where every town has wizards and elves. Normal people won't ever really see weird things. But the wilds are saturated with it - man-spiders, dragons, nature spirits, ghosts, undead, and other nasties guard ancient treasures from distant Ages. The player characters kind of move in these circles.

But it's VERY different in tone and feel to the standard fantasy games of 'levelling and looting'. And One Ring really captures that feel with its Fellowship phases, emphasis on travel, strict protocols of meeting and greeting, the necessity of finding Havens to rest and heal, and interpersonal relationships between the characters. These elements are baked into the system, whereas they're hand-waved in most fantasy games.

Also, One Ring is survival horror (the Gibbet King is more terrifying than anything the Professor thought of, but you can kill him off for good). Middle Earth is a place where heroes - Thorin, Turin, Boromir etc - can die. There's a big emphasis on making allies, planning your travels, warding off corruption, and even running away is a valid tactic. Resources are scarce and you have a long way to go. This is a game where skills like 'smoking' or 'singing' can be more important than weapon skills.

Also, your Heroic Culture is vitally important, as you are expected to rise in the ranks of your people, bear their treasures and shape their destiny. Your skills, powers, even magic items, are all drawn from your culture, not your 'character class'. All this stuff is written into the game, and is vitally important. You can't mix and match a la Pathfinder or D&D. One dwarf is different from another, but they are always going to be essentially dwarfy.

Sure, it's not for everyone. Some people might just want a game where you kill orcs and gather treasure. And that's why things like AIME and MERP exist. But if you actually want the lore, the tone and feel of the setting, One Ring does that better than any other system.

@Maelora is there a skill for second breakfast? That has to be the most important well maybe second behind Dwarf Tossing!

Heheh, I think these are movie things...!

But food is important. Elves have nicer food than most everyone else.

In fact, one of the best talents in the game is the Beorning ability to make honey-cakes for his companions, which helps them heal in mind and body and keeps the Shadow away!

41 minutes ago, Maelora said:

As to whether it's 'mundane'...? I dunno. I appreciate it's an acquired taste and the books can be a slog (the movies actually work well for a lot of people who disliked the books).

To clarify, when I say mundane, I'm using it in the context of many works of fiction to mean "something that is normal, as in, not magical. Operating on normal physics." A lot of books and game settings will use that term to refer to things like "our world" in parallel worlds, and the other world to be magical or whatever. I'm not saying mundane as a negative critique of the books/settings.

I used that later saying I found them dull

53 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

I'm genuinely curious, as I personally found the books to be a tedious slog to read, and I literally had to be tripping on acid to get through Fellowship of the Ring.

Different strokes...I ate it up at 16, read all the appendices, Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, etc. Then every September it became a ritual-read for about 10 years in a row. Once I even read *all the poems in their entirety*! However, since the movies I've read it exactly once...much more into Star Wars these days.

I have never felt any RPG so far really works for LotR. I guess One Ring could work, if I could get anybody to try it, but I'm not really a fan of mechanics that take over a PC. The D&D version suffers from the same problem all D&D has: the power scale just goes off the chart (making any number of orcs less and less a problem), and then just when you "become Aragorn", it's over. Plus I don't think anybody needs magic, that's the purview of the Istari and Elf-Lords and Ladies.

I do think Genesys could work pretty well, if the scale was contained to "normal" human/hobbit/dwarf/elf abilities.

1 minute ago, KungFuFerret said:

To clarify, when I say mundane, I'm using it in the context of many works of fiction to mean "something that is normal, as in, not magical. Operating on normal physics." A lot of books and game settings will use that term to refer to things like "our world" in parallel worlds, and the other world to be magical or whatever. I'm not saying mundane as a negative critique of the books/settings.

Oh, I know - I'm not making a value judgement, I'm not arguing for or against Tolkien. I'm trying to describe how his books sit somewhere in the middle, between 'common magic' worlds like D&D, where every towns has spellcasters and elves are just a mundane race, and swords-and-sorcery style genres where magic is either weak or non-existent.

In Tolkein's works, magic is either reserved for Istari, Nazgul, elflords or whatever, or it comes in subtle ways, like the Hellin Gate or moon-runes. He even stated that hobbits have 'everyday magic' that makes them lucky and helps them move silently, for example. The latter is very much prevalent in One Ring, because it tries to mirror things like 'healing songs' over fireballs and teleporting. Elf PCs could wield illusions, or put mortals to sleep (we see that stuff in the books and films too).

2 minutes ago, whafrog said:

Different strokes...I ate it up at 16, read all the appendices, Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, etc. Then every September it became a ritual-read for about 10 years in a row. Once I even read *all the poems in their entirety*! However, since the movies I've read it exactly once...much more into Star Wars these days.

Which is fine, I'm not criticizing any nerd their nerdiness, I've definitely got mine. But despite growing up marinating in fantasy and scifi, every time I tried to read FotR, I just got sooooooo bored. Chapter after chapter of the idyllic hobbit life, how quaint it is, "Oh look, their 'scandal' is that Merpy Flapbottom took someone's onions without permission! Oooh those scamps with their ideal life! Did I mention their life is ideal? And not tainted with modernity? It's IDEAL DANGIT!!" And I'm just like "Yes Tolkien, I get it, can you PLEASE move them out of hobbiton yet...nope...apparently not, more descriptive text about their ideal life, to the point I want to puke. Finally!! They are leaving!! Yaaayyy....oh..wait no...they have a stop over with the prancing idiot Tom Bombadillo, for even more slow time". And it just drags the already plodding plot, to another screeching halt, and then they FINALLY get into stuff that is interesting. My problem was I would just tune out at the same point every time, forget the book, remember I hadn't read it like 3 years later, start over because I didn't remember a word of it....get bored again...wash, rinse repeat.

17 minutes ago, whafrog said:

I guess One Ring could work, if I could get anybody to try it, but I'm not really a fan of mechanics that take over a PC.

True, but there's a lot of that in the Star Wars RPG too - fear, for example, and the social combat rules. There's explicitly talents like 'Nobody's Fool' meant to defend against that stuff.

17 minutes ago, whafrog said:

The D&D version suffers from the same problem all D&D has: the power scale just goes off the chart (making any number of orcs less and less a problem), and then just when you "become Aragorn", it's over.

Interestingly, 5th edition actually tried to address that issue with 'bounded accuracy'. Even Aragorn can get hit by low level foes. He might have more hit points than a normal soldier, but he still bleeds and eventually he will go down (this is pretty much what happens to Boromir in Fellowship ).

The idea is supposed to mean that while one orc or a lone peasant won't trouble a high-level character, they should still be wary of a warband of orcs or an angry pitchfork wielding mob.