Targeting Help

By Tharcas, in X-Wing Squad Lists

I write up some articles on theory craft for my group. There is an other guy in the group that does it too. We are going to have a little demo...

To continue with Paul’s discussion in Squad Building in X-wing Miniatures Part 3 of 4 I’m going to build an aggressor for Paul’s demo squadron, and we can have a little exhibition game. You recall from part 2 of his series Paul categorized the ships of X-Wing by their role in battle (Fighter, Escorts, Bombers, Command, and Generalist). He also talked little about the major features of each faction in part 1 . I would like to delve in to the Rebel faction and its capabilities.

I fully admit to being biased toward the “good guys”. What can I say. I love a heroic theme! As we have heard, the Rebels consist of two sub-factions, the Rebel Alliance and the Resistance. Many of the ships in these factions are much better together then apart. The Rebels very much rely on teamwork (another value I prize personally), and I would like to explore that. I am also going a bit into how some different upgrades can cause a ships to take on a different role.

For my squad I am going to go with two bombers and their escort. My list so far:

1 B/SF-17 Bomber, Crimson Squadron Pilot (not to be confused with the B-17 Flying Fortress, but you KNOW that’s what they were thinking!!) - 25 points, PS 1

1 Y-Wing, Dutch Vander “Gold Leader” - 23 points, PS 6

1 T-70, Red Squadron Veteran - 26 points, PS 4

Total: 74 points

So you will notice immediately, unlike Paul, I didn’t start thinking in terms of the type of ship I want to fly and then treat having a higher pilot skill for that ship as an upgrade. This is a great way of thinking about the game and I think it leads to some very strong squads. It is particularly good thinking when using the Imperial factions, who have many individually powerful ships. However, for playing Rebels, I find sometimes it pays to think of the mission you want to accomplish and then how to get do that. So that said, it is time to discuss the GREAT TRAP: Doing Too Much! Paul said it and I’ll say again: Don’t Try To Do Too Much! We’ll see how I do...

I call this squadron Targeting Help because my central theme to this squadron is I don’t want to spend all my actions on target locks all the time, and I want to cause a lot of damage! I think that’s simple enough, let see how I can do (and for those of you who clicked the link, let see how I got there).

So first I am going to say, I lied! I did start out thinking about one ship in particular I would like to play (two ships actually), first a B/SF Bomber has some great upgrade slots, its power to pack on the bombs is undeniable (I did not really didn’t get into bombers that much in this game until this ship). However, with its system and tech upgrade slots this bomber can take on a more generalist role of the spotter ship.

B/SF-17 Bomber, Crimson Squadron Pilot - 25

Accuracy Corrector - 3

Targeting Synchronizer - 3

Total: 31

With this build, I get a ship that doesn't care about its own firing solution because it can change all its attack dice to hits. So for 3 more points I take along a tech that lets me share out my target lock with other ships at range 1-2. So there’s 2 damage I am practically guaranteed to “roll” every turn this ship is alive. With 12 total hit points, that could be several turns!

The next ship I wanted to fly was an idea featured in the FFG preview article for the Phantom II , The “Chopp” Shop Y-Wing. This Y-Wing uses the Chopp Bot himself, Chopper, to create a regenerating Y-Wing that can increase the hits it can take by over 50%! More over it very thematically starts to fall apart as you shoot it, but somehow just won't die, very Y-Wingish, very Chopperish! The only thing about this Y-Wing is paired with the B/SF-17 Spotter I have above, there is not much synergy. Lot’s of HP, but two slow ships and one of them (the BTL-A4 Y-Wing) with has to turn to hit you. Y-Wings ain’t good at that turnin’ stuff! A smart opponent will shoot up the B/SF first while staying away from the Y-Wing. Thus not giving the Rebel pilot a chance to remove the BTL title, and use that turret! Thus, I tweaked it a bit:

Y-Wing, Dutch Vander - 23

Chopper - 1

Extra Munitions - 2

Bomb Loadout - 0

Twin Laser Turret (TLT) - 6

Guidance Chips - 0

Ion Bombs - 2

Total: 34

It a bit more than the 28 point FFG Chopp Shop Y-Wing, but for this build I get lots more synergy. First, it deprives me of a regen point, but I opted to leave off the BTL-A4 title. This way, I get to fly Dutch the way I want and use that TLT range to my best avantage. Also, I get to give my B/SF Spotter buddy a free target lock when I get mine. Now I have two target locks I can use on both my TLT attacks. Together with the 2 guaranteed hits the B/SF is giving me, here is 4 very likely hits per turn.

Now I have 35 points left in my 100 point build. Dutch is kind of the lynch pin in this squad. He is vulnerable to stress, but with the TLT and regen he still has a lot of fear factor. However I would like a slightly scary and somewhat reliable damage dealer to round out my squad and maybe present enough of a target to take the heat off Dutch. Enter Red Squadron Veteran:

T-70, Red Squadron Veteran - 26

R2 Astromech - 1

Pattern Analyzer (PA) - 2

Push the Limit (PTL) - 3

Integrated Astromech - 0

Total: 32

I considered several options including some higher level aces and some A-Wings. Ultimately I settled on the Red Vet and his/her T-70 because the ship has lots of power with 3 red dice, good life with effectively 7 hp using Integrated Astromech, and decent agility at 2 green dice. However, I think the real power in this build is the combo of R2 Astromech (R2-A), PTL, and PA. With this combo I should never miss an action for a red maneuver with PA. Also using PA and R2-A, I should be able to get some stress free uses of PTL. If a start stress free, I should end stress free if I execute a green maneuver and use PA to move my check stress step (see the discussion on the Wiki for more detail). R2-A gets me plenty of green maneuvers to choose from. Finally, by only using 32 of my remaining 35 points I get a “bonus” upgrade! I’ll pick Crossfire Formation (2 points) for my B/SF. As long as the B/SF is getting a free target lock from Dutch, he/she can take a focus action and make use of the focus result Crossfire Formation adds to his defensive roll as long as Red Vet is within range 1-2 of the shooter. Cool! More Cheap Synergy!!!

He is the final squad:

B/SF-17 Bomber, Crimson Squadron Pilot - 25

Accuracy Corrector - 3

Targeting Synchronizer - 3

Crossfire Formation - 2

Total: 33

Y-Wing, Dutch Vander - 23

Chopper - 1

Extra Munitions - 2

Bomb Loadout - 0

Twin Laser Turret (TLT) - 6

Guidance Chips - 0

Ion Bombs - 2

Total: 34

T-70, Red Squadron Veteran - 26

R2 Astromech - 1

Pattern Analyzer (PA) - 2

Push the Limit (PTL) - 3

Integrated Astromech - 0

Total: 32

Squad Total: 99

So there is a lot to digest here. I got synergy between Y-Wing and B/SF, also between the B/SF and the T-70. In pinch the Y-Wing can help out the T-70 too. I have a lynch pin in the Y-Wing, but first you have to get through his regen and in the meantime the T-70 and the B/SF are not to be ignored. Finally, you need a minimum of 27 hits to cut through my flight (and probably more than that). Is it too much? Not enough? Way out in left field picking daisies? We shall see.


Interesting list!

On ‎03‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 10:49 PM, Tharcas said:

I have a lynch pin in the Y-Wing

Not really, actually. If Dutch is the main guy using both his target lock and the 'free' target lock on the bomber, his synergy is great but he's primarily just helping himself via a second ship, and you're essentially duplicating the effect of marksmanship (1 full mod on both shots in exchange for your action).

If Dutch gets wasted in the first volley, the bomber still chucks out 2 hits a turn, the X-wing still gets focus and target lock, and the bomber still gets crossfire formation and can focus to protect itself without impacting its damage output.

The accuracy corrector bomber is one I'd like to mess around with myself - I think Targeting Synchroniser is the right choice, because whilst 2 hits is nice, it's nothing terrifying, so your main job is a nigh-immovable block of hit points passing target locks to your friends. A problem is that if you're target locking, you're not focusing, and if you have synchroniser, you don't have advanced optics - so crossfire formation isn't actually that useful.

I'm actually tempted to try a formation of 3 accuracy corrector bombers with a few toys (probably crossfire formation and countermeasures)

Dutch does overcome this, but as noted, he's then eating two target locks per turn, and you're essentially just using him to duplicate an effect that could be achieved with R2-D6 and Predator on a Gray Squadron Pilot generic, without caring if the bomber gets shot down.

The other point of non-synergy is Chopper - Chopper requires an action, and if you're using your action to regenerate shields with chopper, then Dutch isn't target locking. Chopper is a great card for someone like Horton, who doesn't need his action to provide effective fire.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

Hate to burst your bubble, Targeting Synchronizer doesn’t let you spend the target lock like Shara Bay. It’s only for secondary weapons that have the Attack “Target Lock” header.

Theres some interesting potential with Synced Turret though.

You have managed to turn me on to a ship I have otherwise despised though. Now I have to drop $$$ on a ship I wasn’t going to buy. Thanks for that... ?

Edited by Phelan Boots
2 hours ago, Phelan Boots said:

Hate to burst your bubble, Targeting Synchronizer doesn’t let you spend the target lock like Shara Bay. It’s only for secondary weapons that have the Attack “Target Lock” header.

Theres some interesting potential with Synced Turret though.

You have managed to turn me on to a ship I have otherwise despised though. Now I have to drop $$$ on a ship I wasn’t going to buy. Thanks for that... ?

Target Synch works with primary weapon. It was FAQ'd that spending a lock for primary weapon is a game effect.

  1. What are examples of game effects that instruct a player to spend a target lock? The cost for a secondary weapon such as Proton Torpedoes, using pilot abilities like Lieutenant Colzet, or spending a target lock during the "Modify Attack Dice" step to reroll attack dice are all examples of spending a target lock . Removing a target lock or assigning a blue target lock token to another ship are not examples of spending a target lock.
52 minutes ago, wurms said:

Target Synch works with primary weapon. It was FAQ'd that spending a lock for primary weapon is a game effect.

  1. What are examples of game effects that instruct a player to spend a target lock? The cost for a secondary weapon such as Proton Torpedoes, using pilot abilities like Lieutenant Colzet, or spending a target lock during the "Modify Attack Dice" step to reroll attack dice are all examples of spending a target lock . Removing a target lock or assigning a blue target lock token to another ship are not examples of spending a target lock.

Oh, well that’s cool. I stand corrected.

Since you’ve inspired me to faff about with Targeting Synchronizer, I’ve made a First Order version.

AWACS (99)

•"Quickdraw" (39) - TIE/SF Fighter
Expertise (4), Fire Control System (2), Advanced Optics (2), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

Zeta Specialist (30) - TIE/SF Fighter
Fire Control System (2), Targeting Synchronizer (3), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

Zeta Specialist (30) - TIE/SF Fighter
Fire Control System (2), Targeting Synchronizer (3), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

Use the Zeta’s to modify ALL the shots, and spread target locks around. No matter who Quickdraw wants to shoot (or use the front/rear shot, or double tap) she will probably have full mods after the first engagement.

11 hours ago, Phelan Boots said:

Since you’ve inspired me to faff about with Targeting Synchronizer, I’ve made a First Order version.

AWACS (99)

•"Quickdraw" (39) - TIE/SF Fighter
Expertise (4), Fire Control System (2), Advanced Optics (2), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

Zeta Specialist (30) - TIE/SF Fighter
Fire Control System (2), Targeting Synchronizer (3), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

Zeta Specialist (30) - TIE/SF Fighter
Fire Control System (2), Targeting Synchronizer (3), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

Use the Zeta’s to modify ALL the shots, and spread target locks around. No matter who Quickdraw wants to shoot (or use the front/rear shot, or double tap) she will probably have full mods after the first engagement.

Yes. Triple TIE/sf with FCS/TS is a nasty combination. I've also seen it used on three omegas with debris gambit. A TIE/sf with an evade token is annoyingly tough, and being able to chop and change firing order means all the target locks, all the time. It's fairly easy to find the points to give them cruise missiles, instead.

Thanks for all the great replies. Unfortunately it was two losses for this squad. But I learned some good lessons, so it was no REAL loss.

The lessons learned are this:

  1. Crossfire is do able for this list for this list, but only if you fly really well. I didn't get the focus on the bomber as much as I thought, and when I did my T-70 was out of position.
  2. The regen on Dutch is a bit of a stretch because because it is an action to use and if you are using it you are not getting your target locks. If Dutch is hard pressed this list falls apart pretty quickly.
  3. The bomber was a very consistent attacker (as I thought it would be) however, it really suffered from not being able to do what it wants to do (bomb the heck out of things). That said I think I proved to myself that this combo on this bomber could make a very scary attacker if I add in actual bombs! The bomber could then control the engagement with a good bombing run and because it's actions do not really matter for its primary roll. It can use them to support the attacks of its squad.
Edited by Tharcas
Sorry for the word! Added content.
6 hours ago, Tharcas said:

The bomber was a very consistent attacker (as I thought it would be)

If an accuracy corrector turret is genuinely reliable, maybe I will have to try a trio of them....not having to actually roll red dice is very cathartic.

I can certainly speak highly of crimson specialist with a bomblet generator & deflective plating.

5 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

If an accuracy corrector turret is genuinely reliable, maybe I will have to try a trio of them....not having to actually roll red dice is very cathartic.

Don’t read too much into that statement. It was making me roll to not take damage but it was not being an effective damage dealer. He really needed something for some board control.

14 hours ago, Ronu said:

Don’t read too much into that statement. It was making me roll to not take damage but it was not being an effective damage dealer. He really needed something for some board control.

True. My point was that you were having to roll to avoid damage constantly. I think this was a disadvantage for you. Clearly though not enough to win the battle, something with more board control might. Adding these upgrades to a crimson specialist with a bomblet generator & deflective plating is only 37 points total. There is room in there for Sabine bomber or any number of other things.