Hello,

I already start to build and playtest a Dale deck, using a lot of cards already spoiled but no printed yet. I made also a gallery to see all those cards (here: http://sdajce.forumactif.org/t7145-galerie-visuelle-des-cartes-a-venir)

Here is what I got:

http://ringsdb.com/deck/view/94361

Lanwyn (The Thing in the Depths)
Brand son of Bain
Bard son of Brand

Ally (16)
3x Guardian of Esgaroth
2x Wiglaf
3x Knight of Dale (The Dungeons of Cirith Gurat)
2x Rhovanion Outrider (Temple of the Deceived)
3x North Real Lookout
3x redwater sentry

Attachment (24)
1x Black Arrow (On the Doorstep)
3x Bow of Yew
3x hauberk of mail
2x map of rhovanion
3x King of Dale
3x Miruvor (Shadow and Flame)
3x Raiment of War (The Thing in the Depths)
3x Spare Hood and Cloak (Over Hill and Under Hill)
3x Steward of Gondor (Core Set)

Event (9)
3x A Test of Will (Core Set)
3x Legacy of Númenor (The Voice of Isengard)
3x Traffic from Dale

Player Side Quest (1)
1x Double Back (Escape from Mount Gram)

I try to play turn one a lot of attachment, draw 3 or 4 cars, and either a king of Dale or a traffic from Dale (or both!) for playing high cost Dale Ally (knight of Dale is the best).

My events and Arwen are just the usual cards who are good enough to be played in each of my decks. The rest is build around the thematic. 0 cost equipment usually don't cost anything (both resource or about card advantage since I draw when play them) and give a small effect. So I enjoy a lot of small effect and draw a lot to ensure the stability of this deck. The things is I only have 3 heroes so I want all of them to be Dale and have a lot of equipment that work for allies too.

Since I want to build around Brand I just have to pick the two only allowed Dale heroes in the game. They are pretty ok still, the main problem is only that none have more than 3 HP so it is hard to block or let an attack undefended. I prefer to play more Dale allies but we don't have many choices and the only others one are either out-of-sphere and need king of Dale or celduin who don't deserve his 3 resources. I hope we will have more Dale allies.

So far the deck work correctly. I was able to beat some difficult quest in two players games (Encounter at amon duin nightmare, attack on dol guldur).

I continue to do some playtest with this deck. It work well, especially when paired with a fight deck. I do some adjustment to include cards from 1st AP of the 8th cycle.

Looks pretty good. Do you draw enough allies?

Min fairly new to the game and usually put in 20 or so allies. I guess if you have enough draw?

I don't have so many allies but I use Knight of Dale for everything since I can often ready him twice a turn. Each of my ally is a bomb but cost a lot. I would like to draw more card to be sure to have the good allies I want, and Brand is part of the solution, making me draw each time I play a new attachment on a Dale character. But I still have more resource (or way to reduce price like king of Dale) that card that I could play so I would like to have more draw options but none of sneak attack + gandalf, rod of the steward of prepare the battle seem good enough. Having a partner with a lot of deep knowledge is a gift ^^.

I can't wait to get Wilds of Rhovanian

Me too. That is why I already playtest the player card ^^

Hey, as I said elsewhere, I was trying the new cards as well. With maybe a similar approach, but many differences. Let us share a little.

I used Bard the Bowman instead of his great grand son. I found the latter to be a weak spot in the deck. And as long as you get Traffic from Dale, you should not worry much about the Spirit resources (at least, that is how I played it, on Lanwyn). Because of that I was also using the secrecy Spirit ally, even without a chance for the discount. 2 willpower and a useful effect seemed enough, with the important Dale trait.

Cram and Miruvor worked great for me. Putting them early on the heroes, drawing cards, using them for card advantage (or even extra willpower and resource smoothing in case of Miruvor) and playing new attachments next round or so. Miruvor seemed one of the best cards in the deck, actually.

And yeah, the Knight of Dale is just amazing, as I am sure will be Guardian of Esgaroth whom I have not tried yet. Rhovanion Outrider is simply superb as well. And the archetype will get stronger with every new addition.

I am not sure if I play the Tactics warrior, but I managed to play the Lore ally thanks to the King of Dale. That attachment is really the card to mulligan for, obviously.

I'm really happy to share :).

I was thinking of using Bowman but the fact he does not trigger neither the +1 willpower or the drawing effect of Bain. Basically he does not enjoy any Dale benefits have no advantage versus a basic Legolas on this spot. I really want to draw each time I play an attachment.

I heard you about cram and miruvor. I think I can't play both gondorian shield/unexpected courage and them. Actually I have an attachment that stay for all the game in each of my heroes very quickly. I get rid of almost all of my gondorian shield since I now block with my allies so I may change some courage to Miruvor and/or cram. Do you think this is the right thing to do?

I have playtest other Dale allies, including celduin traveler (that I know well, because of my many secrecy decks) and the merchant. They are a lot weaker tha every Dale I actually have, and I already have enough allies to carry attachment I draw so I don't see the need of more allies.

Could you post your entire decklist?

A bit on action advantage. When there was a huge argument if Unexpected Courage is a bad design or not, I was in the camp saying that it should be restricted 1 per deck, because of no restrictions. Since then I did restrict myself using it no more than that, and in fact I never really missed it, which in a circle logic might mean it had not been such a bad design in the first place.

I have been a huge fan of Miruvor since the start. And still am. And I really think Dale decks are just meant for it. On the other hand, I had not played Cram since the Dwarf decks of old (a long time as this is not my favourite faction), and the Dale deck I made meant a late return.

Now for the deck itself, I removed Arwen for the same reasons you removed Bowman. I find that logic sound for both, but at least Bowman can be a very good target for King of Dale since he should soon have 3 attachments and make the allies super cheap (or free).

If I keep the hero line up, the below are the cards I will now have in the deck:

Guardian of Esgaroth x3
Long Lake Trader x2
Raven Hill Scout x1
Celduin Traveller x3
Rhovanion Outrider x3
Knight of Dale x3

I think the Guardian, Outrider and Knight will never be replaced, they just seem perfect for the deck. The others might when we see more allies. There might be a new Leadership and Spirit in the deluxe, though since we saw a Leadership ally before and will see one right after the deluxe, the box itself might have a different one: perhaps a Silvan or a Dwarf.

Cram x3
Black Arrow x1
Bow of Yew x3
Spare Hood and Cloak x3
Miruvor x3
Squire's Helm x3
King of Dale x3
Great Yew Bow x2

The last time I had the deck, I was playing with a Gondor deck and had In Service of the Steward there three times as well. It again gave the card a new meaning. On its own, it had been usually just ok, but since it draws a card, gives willpower, and then the initial bonus, it becomes a different beast entirely. In our case, it would usually mean another point of extra willpower due to Visionary Leadership and attack because of Leadership Boromir. With say a Galadhrim or Noldor deck, Elf-friend would be at least as powerful, obviously.

Hands Upon the Bow x3
Traffic from Dale x3

I really only had these events (so there must have been more attachments, probably Gondorian Fire and Blood of Numenor to go with In Service of the Steward, and Brand really liked the former). I have recently tried to cut the dependency on A Test of Will. It is still hard on some occasions, but two great decks can usually win without it. It can certainly be more fun not to rely on it so much (and saga with peril stresses the notion).

PS It has been also nice to play Ravenhill Scout for the first time ever. I even used his ability once to a good effect with Rhovanion Outriders (who are just superb, I cannot help it). But again, if we get many more Dale cards, there might be no place for the scout any more.
PPS What do you think of the Spirit event, worth the slot? The one that readies an ally with an attachment. I have not played Ever Vigilant since the core set days, I believe. This is cheaper, but...
PPPS Of course, if you play the deck solo, then you might need more defense, I mostly used it for questing and some additional combat prowess thanks to the two ranged heroes and sometimes the Knights.

Hmm... we did not get much further here...

I don't get the occasion to play further the questionable cards (cram and miruvor).

We have a lot of difference also because you restrict yourself about must-have cards (steward, unexpected courage, legacy of numenor, test of will, Arwen, hasty stroke) that don't work specifically for the strategy but help for the whole table. It make a lot of differences and explain a lot about our divergence: there is a lot of spirit cards among them (so I enjoy more another spirit hero) and since you don't have those attachment that stay on heroes you have more place for cram and/or miruvor.

Now for the deck itself, I removed Arwen for the same reasons you removed Bowman. I find that logic sound for both, but at least Bowman can be a very good target for King of Dale since he should soon have 3 attachments and make the allies super cheap (or free).

It don't. We don't have enough attachment for allies so we will not draw with each ally anyway. That make Arwen better than celduin traveler. But king of dale make me draw on my Bard, and when you put it on your Bard you don't.

I think I will try the Spirit Bard as well. Especially if I try this deck together with a more combatant one. I am always more inclined for Arwen ally if there is no sentinel defender at the table. She of course is a great card, as is Steward of Gondor, obviously. I just try to mix things up a little more and do not play the staples in every deck. That way I have discovered many useful cards, and sometimes some better choices as well. Like in the case of a Dale deck, I really feel you can do without UC, as none of the heroes really crave for it, and you can do a lot with Cram and Miruvor: as I said, draw with them and use them on round 1, whenever you can, and get more cards later. The repetitive potential of Miruvor is especially great in this case, together with the resource smoothing.

I have already understand that we do not share the same tentation about playing or not the staples. I generally play every staple that make my deck better, but the particularity of each deck allow me not to play every staples in every decks ;). For example here envoy of pelargir is less interesting than the others cards in this deck.

And, in fact, many decks don't want to play unexpected courage even with 2 or 3 spirit heroes. You want to play only one deck with Steward of gondor on the table, Arwen hero is as interesting as his ally version... So my games and my deck have many differences anyway :).

I think it is good to understand that sometimes what you think will make a deck better, is not a fact: I find this after making almost every deck, even after seven years of heavy deckbuilding and playing thousands of games, there is always a new experience.

But from your deck above, there is really not much that I would not put it there myself...

Since we all have deckbuilding restriction that we fix ourself we all have a different version of what a smooth deck is indeed. Good deck is more about how powerful the deck is and it don't vary much depending of the player.

I like also to play new thematic to get rid of some habits. They all have specificity and the most powerful a thematic is the more thematic cards I play instead of the generic cards :). To that point there is only one card I always play when I have the corresponding sphere: Daeron's rune. It is only a matter of time since I found a Folco deck without it ^^.

I got an occasion to playtest with Miruvor. When I'm able to let out more attachment that stick on heroes it became really better. I put them back on the list.

Glad you liked it. If that is what you are saying. When I have time to play again, I will test the Spirit Bard (with Leadership Brand and Spirit Lanwyn, of course).

I was thinking about the Fearless Scout attachment, in combination with the Scouting Party event. I like the fact that you will mostly draw two cards after playing the attachment, which is already not so bad, especially if you also boost willpower (for a single resource), but the problem may be that I do not have enough Scouts to begin with to justify the event. Not sure, really.

Yes I like miruvor. I find an use with a hero that will alway clear of attachment, a thing that I haven't some time ago. In my actual decklist miruvor work well.

But about the other things I think that even in a full scout deck I will probably not play Scouting Party. I mean I don't play anymore his dwarf or rohan card that do the same job. Here you spoke about an event that require ANY of your character that quest to be scout? I don't see any way this could be possible. I found the card bad, and it seem not to be even possible to play it. So I'm passing without even play testing this one, get me in touch if I was wrong ;).

I see the reasoning. But it can be like this: instead of sending 7 characters to quest, say each with 2 willpower for a 14 total (just a silly example), you send the 4 scouts with 4 willpower each for a 16 total. Sometimes it can be useful, if the three characters not questing are good at combat. But it would need a serious play-testing to prove its worth. Have you tried the card extensively before? I have never...

I never have play this card. I have played lookalike Untrubled by darkness and Astonishing Speed. I can use this experience to get an idea of how it will behave. My conclusion is: you need to be regular at questing because you need to win the questing phase each turn to bypasse the active location. To get to this the best is to have allies. You can't afford this kind of card when you try to play your first allies (who are more useful) and you probably won't need this further in the game.

And this card don't work alone. You need so many card to setup it. Many of your character ready well so you are willing to put them questing, it is way more efficient than a 4-card combo that don't have any use on their own.

Because what you are fan of (able to draw 2 cards on fearless scout, having a scout on most of your heroes) is something that work against the deck. I'm actually getting out great attachment (unexpected courage) just because it stay on the Dale character and I prefer to have attachment that move around (miruvor, spare hood) because I'm allowed to play them again and again. When you play your fearless scout you will draw another attachment that can't make you draw more, you broke the cycle.

So I'm not considering the card at all because I don't find any point to any of the 2-card combo. So I'm not telling you that I'm 100 sure it will not work, I just don't believe at it.

I've actually played Scouting Party with my Black Serpent Fellowship, but that's only because the point of the fellowship was to play all the Black Serpent cards, and I couldn't see any other practical use for Fearless Scout. Two of my questing heroes (Hirgon and Idraen) were already scouts, and my questing allies were almost entirely scouts, so Scouting Party could generate some impressive willpower, especially when Thurindir was powered up and had Fearless Scout on him.

There's only three Dale allies that are scouts, two of which (Celduin Traveller and Rhovanion Outrider) are questers and in-sphere for scouting party. If there were another questing Dale hero with Scout then I could see it, but I'm not sure LeBrand/SpBard + Fearless Scout is worth it for enabling an event.

Yes, I think I will give it a pass as well in this deck. I am yet to construct a Scout deck...

But I do like the global boosts, like I said in another thread, The Free Peoples is my favourite in a Gandalf/Elrond/Vilya deck and so is Lords of the Eldar in a Noldor deck, obviously. I do not mind they are events, for me they have worked just as well as Faramir or Visionary Leadership in a Gondor deck. Astonishing Speed is not as versatile as Peoples or Lords, and thus much less playable, especially as the Spirit resources happen to be precious in a Rohan deck...

I actually like global boosts, even in Event form. They saved my *** many times. Sometimes you need to push hard even in later rounds. To comlete the quest before threatingout/to escape from big enemy, tah just poped out/bypass horrible location/and so on.

And astonishing speed is excellent in my Rohan decks. Merry (who is not Rohan in traits, but definitelly is in his mind ) makes it cheaper with Good meal. You quest with everybody but Eomund. Than sacrifice Eomund for first defense. And Rohan cavalery is ready to ride.

If you are starting to lose control, this is an excellent combo to get back on top.

And that is why i love those event willpower-boosting cards.

Yes. As I said, I feel pretty much the same about them. I used to think Astonishing Speed was just as good in its time as The Free Peoples or Lords of the Eldar are now. I just think the latter have a great advantage of being versatile: they don't just help the questing. But your example shows that a card that only boosts willpower can help with combat as well: even without Eomund, sending fewer characters to quest for more, can turn out as a great help in combat...