I’ve been considering buying the Citadel Paint sets on Amazon. Are they good value?
Citadel Paint Sets
Quite frankly, no. Citadel paints cost more and come in smaller bottles than their rivals of equal or greater quality. Those include Vallejo, P3, Army Painter, Reaper, Warcolours, Coat'd Arms, and many more. We really are spoiled for choice! Citadel still is a valid choice, but not for best value. Depending on your retailer, Vallejo and Army Painter compete for that spot.
I will always recommend the Army Painter starter set for new painters. It comes with 10 colours and a brown wash, which can be enough to paint a lot of things with some colour theory application (technicaly you only need white, black, red, yellow, and blue to mix everything you need, but that becomes a bit fiddely and hard to keep consistent). Also comes with a decent (but way too small, get a proper one for large areas, too!) brush. Along with that set I'd recommend a light grey (i.e. Army Painter Ash Grey or other companies close equivalents), a black wash (i.e. Citadel Nuln Oil or equivalents), and whatever colour you want your rebel troops uniforms to be if it isn't part of the set.
One thing to keep in mind with that set is that they tend to stay in storage for a bit too long, making the paint seperate. Before you use them the first time, you should pull away the dropper ends and stir them using cocktail sticks. After that proper shacking usually is enough.
I'd never recommend full range sets, they come with way too many colours you can easily mix and don't need anywhere near often enough.
Probably not. Check the pot sizes, on top of what ^he said several of the citadel starters use even smaller pots than their standard range.
If you must grab a set imo find something in valjero game color
Edited by Ralgon17 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:Quite frankly, no. Citadel paints cost more and come in smaller bottles than their rivals of equal or greater quality. Those include Vallejo, P3, Army Painter, Reaper, Warcolours, Coat'd Arms, and many more. We really are spoiled for choice! Citadel still is a valid choice, but not for best value. Depending on your retailer, Vallejo and Army Painter compete for that spot.
I will always recommend the Army Painter starter set for new painters. It comes with 10 colours and a brown wash, which can be enough to paint a lot of things with some colour theory application (technicaly you only need white, black, red, yellow, and blue to mix everything you need, but that becomes a bit fiddely and hard to keep consistent). Also comes with a decent (but way too small, get a proper one for large areas, too!) brush. Along with that set I'd recommend a light grey (i.e. Army Painter Ash Grey or other companies close equivalents), a black wash (i.e. Citadel Nuln Oil or equivalents), and whatever colour you want your rebel troops uniforms to be if it isn't part of the set.
One thing to keep in mind with that set is that they tend to stay in storage for a bit too long, making the paint seperate. Before you use them the first time, you should pull away the dropper ends and stir them using cocktail sticks. After that proper shacking usually is enough.
I'd never recommend full range sets, they come with way too many colours you can easily mix and don't need anywhere near often enough.
Ah. The thing is, im trying to keep with Sorastro when it comes to paint choices. But danm, i added up all the paints i need and its totalling £140! Is there a paint comparison chart that i can use to change citadel to vallejo/army painter?
Edited by JabbyOn 3.3.2018 at 10:33 AM, Jabby said:Ah. The thing is, im trying to keep with Sorastro when it comes to paint choices. But danm, i added up all the paints i need and its totalling £140! Is there a paint comparison chart that i can use to change citadel to vallejo/army painter?
https://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Paint_Range_Compatibility_Chart
This one works very well with Vallejo and alright with Army Painter.
See Nungunzs post below.
However, for painting your army you don't need to exactly match Sorastros paints, rather look at what he does, find (mix) aproximations writing down any recipes, and stick to them consistently.
This one is also interesting for mixing.
Edited by Admiral DeathrainYou can get all the washes ("shades") in a kit for about $35 USD on Amazon. I've used nuln oil (the black wash) and it's amazing, many others that use other paint manufacturers still recommend GW washes, and getting the kit gives you all the lesser used ones that should last a very long time (you'll run out of nuln oil soon).
I have made my own nuln oil and agrax earthshade for terrain and it works decently in bulk, but there is no margin for error on the minis!
Edited by Big Easy
4 minutes ago, Big Easy said:You can get all the washes ("shades") in a kit for about $35 USD on Amazon. I've used nuln oil (the black wash) and it's amazing, many others that use other paint manufacturers still recommend GW washes, and getting the kit gives you all the lesser used ones that should last a very long time (you'll run out of nuln oil soon).
I have made my own nuln oil and agrax earthshade for terrain and it works decently in bulk, but there is no margin for error on the minis!
Im going to buy the shades set since I’ll probably use all of them, everything else will be bought individually
5 hours ago, Jabby said:Ah. The thing is, im trying to keep with Sorastro when it comes to paint choices. But danm, i added up all the paints i need and its totalling £140! Is there a paint comparison chart that i can use to change citadel to vallejo/army painter?
Here is the holy grail of paint conversion (the dakkadakka chart is garbage, don't use it): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xl-x9eW3bLw5eqDeNUG2JUwn2EZwn34TDKfNIg5uul4/edit
Sorastro also made his own conversion chart: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/155aor-paMRpQwVMzxKlU37cp-_5sjvEPxl165qn7BTc/edit
13 hours ago, Jabby said:Im going to buy the shades set since I’ll probably use all of them, everything else will be bought individually
Note, that Army Painter has shades, too, and they are as good as the Citadel ones. And, just like the paints, they are better value.
Edited by UbulThe AP shades actually have a really good rep, I'd always go for them.
Seems theres a lot of negative thoughts on Citadel paints. Honestly I own a good selection of every brand. So I'm not against any, to be honest. I just wanted to point out some positives to Citadel paints.
Everything is obviously opinion based from painter to painter, but i absolutely prefer citadel shades, metallics, and technical paints. Especially their dry paints. The pots may be smaller, but the paint is thicker. So after a water thinning, your paint goes further. And having the flip top allows you to dip when you only need a tiny amount. Unlike others that force you to put drops on a pallette, often resulting in wasted paint. And sometimes theres just a color i love by citadel, or any company, so i buy it.
The only GW product I would consider worth the premium is nuln oil. For everything else I recommend either army painter or Vallejo. I actually prefer AP washes to GW washes even, except for the black. GW paints are more expensive and I don’t really like the bottles they come in. Inevitably they don’t close all the way and dry out, and it can be hard to accurately mix paints from them. Dropper bottles Ftw. I have some bottles of Vallejo game color from nearly 20years ago that are still perfectly fine.
That said, it really depends on the colors you want. The companies all offer slightly different ones these days, and it’s not uncommon for people to mix and match from different companies.
Vallejo FTW....except for nuln oil. I haven't seen anyone else with anything quite like nuln oil
GW paints have some negatives, mainly in price and pot design...but I will admit they have some great quality paints too.
@Jabby
what specifically do you plan to use them for? Both forces or just one side?
The "basic" GW paint set doesn't offer a SW: legion player a good bang for the buck...you would be better off getting a base primer (color depends on what you are painting) and \some of their "Base" paints in some good "military" colors (if doing rebels) and the basic Ceramite white and Eshin grey (for troopers)...Nuln oil is one of the best "Dark/black" washes out there and is worth owning too.
as stated throughout this thread there are many great paints out there for much less, but SOME GW paints (and washes) could have a place in your collection...depends on what in SW:L you are painting and what color scheme you want
Does anybody know how Nuln oil compares to P3 Armor wash? I had the armor wash recommend to me as a good all purpose ink wash but the more I watch the more I wish I had bought Nuln oil instead.
Is Nuln oil an ink? What makes it so great?
15 minutes ago, NukeMaster said:Does anybody know how Nuln oil compares to P3 Armor wash? I had the armor wash recommend to me as a good all purpose ink wash but the more I watch the more I wish I had bought Nuln oil instead.
P3 armor wash is designed to wash metal surfaces (like armor) and it dries with some shine. Nuln oil dries matte and dulls your metals. For non-metals, Nuln oil is definitely a better choice (or Army Painter darktone).
Edited by Ubul2 minutes ago, Ubul said:P3 armor wash is designed to wash metal surfaces (like armor) and it dries with a bit of shine. Nuln oil dries matte and dulls your metals.
So as long as I don't mind the shine I can use the armor wash in every instance people are using Nuln oil? I was hoping you would say that Nuln oil is so much better and easier to use.
17 hours ago, Big Easy said:You can get all the washes ("shades") in a kit for about $35 USD on Amazon. I've used nuln oil (the black wash) and it's amazing, many others that use other paint manufacturers still recommend GW washes, and getting the kit gives you all the lesser used ones that should last a very long time (you'll run out of nuln oil soon).
I have made my own nuln oil and agrax earthshade for terrain and it works decently in bulk, but there is no margin for error on the minis!
Isn’t a wash just acrylic paint + water?
7 minutes ago, NukeMaster said:So as long as I don't mind the shine I can use the armor wash in every instance people are using Nuln oil? I was hoping you would say that Nuln oil is so much better and easier to use.
Other than the shine, the difference is very small. Nuln oil has a little bit more brown in it (gives a warmer tone), and behaves a little bit better (meaning flows into the cracks better). But both are good washes and easy to use in my experience. Did you have issues with the armor wash?
1 hour ago, Ubul said:Other than the shine, the difference is very small. Nuln oil has a little bit more brown in it (gives a warmer tone), and behaves a little bit better (meaning flows into the cracks better). But both are good washes and easy to use in my experience. Did you have issues with the armor wash?
I haven't done a lot much painting. I bought the armor wash awhile ago because I was trying to mimic someone's marker and wash technique for Armada fighter squadrons. I thought it just made them look dingy.
When I decided to get into legion I started painting my Rebellion figures. Again trying to mimic someone's prime and wash technique. I'm really happy with my stormtroopers but when I try it on the star destroyers if I put enough on that all the crevices look good the rest looks dingy and I have places where it has pooled badly.
Ultimately I am trying to determine what problems are arising from lack of skill on my part and what is coming from using inferior products.
7 hours ago, Derrault said:Isn’t a wash just acrylic paint + water?
A wash is usually acrylic ink + surfactant + water as far as I know. I do make my own for terrain and it's close enough to the real stuff. But GW is pretty widely considered the best for washes, and at that price for that range of colors I consider it worth it to have that quality and consistency for minis.
Nuln oil and agrax earthshade are the only ones I consider essential though, and if trying to save money making your own should work okay.
7 hours ago, NukeMaster said:I haven't done a lot much painting. I bought the armor wash awhile ago because I was trying to mimic someone's marker and wash technique for Armada fighter squadrons. I thought it just made them look dingy.
When I decided to get into legion I started painting my Rebellion figures. Again trying to mimic someone's prime and wash technique. I'm really happy with my stormtroopers but when I try it on the star destroyers if I put enough on that all the crevices look good the rest looks dingy and I have places where it has pooled badly.
Ultimately I am trying to determine what problems are arising from lack of skill on my part and what is coming from using inferior products.
One really important point new or newer painters miss is to thin your washes (and paint) depending on what it is you’re trying to do. Water is OK, but ideally you want to use a medium. I use AP wash medium, but the GW Lahmian medium should work as well. It’s actually very rare that I apply a wash straight out of the bottle, the vast majority are mixed down to about 50/50 wash/medium. Some applications like nuln oil over a light color (like stormtroopers) or large areas (like a tank) where you either need it to be very subtle or not pool/stain on large surfaces I’ve gone as much as 20/80 wash/medium mixture.
To experiment take some cheap miniatures( like plastic army men), prime them a light color like zandri dust, a light gray, or similar and use the washes on them while experimenting with thinning them down.
an aside to all of these "I've never painted..." threads.
FIND A LOCAL GAME STORE.
we can type out the BEST advice and you can watch youtube videos but your LGS can do even better.
@Jabby
where are you located? We can probably point you to a LGS so you don't buy stuff from Amazon.
My citadel shade set just arrived today!
You don’t need nearly as many colors as the pro painters use. They use that number to save time and because they paint a very wide variety of subjects.
personally I love P3. It’s all liquid pigment so no matter how you thin it it’s still clean and never gritty.
The prices on GW are insane. Learning just a bit about real artists acrylics will save you so much money it’s crazy.
If you want a Matte glaze like nul oil mix an ink with Matte varnish or Matte medium (golden matte varnish).