47 minutes ago, DodgingArcs said:

I dont know how you fix the Ghost. This at least means you don’t get primaries. Allowing the Ghost to get the double shot end of turn was a terrible idea, but so was making Fenn about 5-6 points undercosted (+4pts for Pilot Skill, +1-2pts for anti action ability).

How about changing the Attack Shuttle title (which gives the corresponding Ghost its double-tap) to only work if the Ghost did not previously use a turret attack that turn? That way, the Ghost could still double-tap on a primary shot, but not laying down four TLT shots a turn.

The Ghost doesn't need fixing. It's a fantastic and flexible platform that is now unfortunately the centre of a shitstorm of knee jerking about a particular precise build that's not its fault.

The correct question is 'how do you fix Fenn Rau'?

8 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

The correct question is 'how do you fix Fenn Rau'?

Make him a Scum pilot.

2 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

The Ghost doesn't need fixing. It's a fantastic and flexible platform that is now unfortunately the centre of a shitstorm of knee jerking about a particular precise build that's not its fault.

The correct question is 'how do you fix Fenn Rau'?

I can't agree with this harder, though Fenn Rau is exactly the same he's a flexible platform, but i think he's under costed for what he can do.

If we could just give Fenn, Major Rhymers over costing. I would be happy.

28 minutes ago, the1hodgy said:

I can't agree with this harder, though Fenn Rau is exactly the same he's a flexible platform, but i think he's under costed for what he can do.

If we could just give Fenn, Major Rhymers over costing. I would be happy.

Waiting for Major Rhymer to make the hop on over to the TIE Aggressor...maybe then he’d be worth all those points.

31 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Waiting for Major Rhymer to make the hop on over to the TIE Aggressor...maybe then he’d be worth all those points.

I would take that; and/or Major Rhymer crew with same ability.

5 minutes ago, the1hodgy said:

I would take that; and/or Major Rhymer crew with same ability.

Range 1-2 autoblaster Lambas! Add technician for spice. Or gunner for spite.

7 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Range 1-2 autoblaster Lambas! Add technician for spice. Or gunner for spite.

Or stick him on a Decorator and get some sweet torps off.

3 minutes ago, the1hodgy said:

Or stick him on a Decorator and get some sweet torps off.

Frosting torpedoes away! Flower arrangement bombs ready!

On 3/2/2018 at 6:02 PM, Herowannabe said:

Miranda’s ability should read “When performing an attack with your primary weapon...”

The Phantom(1) title should read “... at the end of the Combat Phase, it [the Ghost] may perform an additional attack with a <Turret Weapon Upgrade> equipped to a docked ship.”

I think everyone in the community is pretty much agreed that these two changes would be appropriate and beneficial in bringing these two ships in line. At least, in all the threads I’ve read I’ve never seen anyone actively opposed to either of these two ideas.

So what do you say, FFG? Can we go ahead and make these changes official? Or at least start running them past playestesters so that maybe by the time 2019 comes around we can get an FAQ with these changes rolled out?

---

And to the community: am I wrong? Is there anyone who wouldn’t be on board with either of those errata? Genuinely curious.

EDIT: apparently there is a bit of (vehement) opposition to these proposed changes, more than I thought. Let’s keep discussing it, but please keep it civil. thanks.

While not terrible fixes, I think the ghost could almost end up being made into even worse lists if they could fire primary/tlt against you first, then follow up against tokenless ships with an ion cannon turret.

6 minutes ago, emperorscanaries said:

While not terrible fixes, I think the ghost could almost end up being made into even worse lists if they could fire primary/tlt against you first, then follow up against tokenless ships with an ion cannon turret.

That is....exceptionally mean. I love it. The more ions the better. ICT is too OP, nerf now please.

On 5.3.2018 at 11:18 AM, Stay On The Leader said:

The correct question is 'how do you fix Fenn Rau'?

probably we need more powercreep to fight the existing powercreep. Maybe ordonance .. a new torp.

PC-torp mkI: 3 Points 4 Attack

[Attack] Dont have any focus, TL, or evade Tokens. You can fire out of your Arc. Reroll all blanks and change all focus to crits. If you are stressed and/or collided with a ship or asteroid this round add 5 Attackdice.

I think this would fit perfectly in the general direction the game is heading...

...maybe it should also assign a condition......for funsies

I'm not opposed to changing things when they get out of hand, I was a big supporter of the Jumpmaster nerf, but I honestly don't think either are at the point where they really need a nerf.

The call to nerf the ghost is simply too early, people are just now working out how to take it down. I played in a regionals last week and there was only 1 Fenn/Ghost list, and almost everyone else in the top 16 had tech against that exact list (and it didn't win btw, Howard Aces won). I really don't think the Ghost needs to be nerfed at this time.

Miranda on the other hand has been at the top a while, but as in every game there is always going to be top tier ships that end up being better than others. Miranda is one (of a small number on the rebel roster), and it is down to her specific combo of her ability and TLT. The K-wing itself is not a strong ship, and taking away that combo will shelf Miranda along with the rest of the K-wing pilots. I will never want that for any ship, and frankly we have enough of that scenario in XWM already.

I'm not opposed to tweaking TLT though, and I honestly think that is much better method of reigning in both of these ships, should FFG decide to. Whether it be changing its range band, or the out of arc defensive bonus against turrets that many have suggested (my personal top pick), this would affect both ships top tier builds without hurting the ships directly. I think if any change were to be made, this is where it should be done.

Those are some of the better proposed changes that I've seen come out of these forums in awhile. Whether or not they are needed is a bit of a tougher question. I'm really leaning towards 2.0 at this point. My competitive game experience is near 0 these days...having to make the game fun for myself rather than play a fun game out of the box is harder and harder.

Also, if they had to use the Phantom turret and took Autoblaster... The range 1 bubble no longer exists, and at only 2 points.

Maybe this fix is a bad idea.

The constant complaining on these forums is tiring. All month it’s been whining about nerfing something here and there. The ghost doesn’t need adjustment at all. Coordinate might need a small errata to make it smoother. A simple fix could be that it doesn’t work on upgraded actions, only things printed on the ship itself.

17 minutes ago, carthwolf said:

The constant complaining on these forums is tiring. All month it’s been whining about nerfing something here and there. The ghost doesn’t need adjustment at all. Coordinate might need a small errata to make it smoother. A simple fix could be that it doesn’t work on upgraded actions, only things printed on the ship itself.

Eh, that wouldn’t help with the usual problem with EU as it adds the boost action to the action bar.

8 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Eh, that wouldn’t help with the usual problem with EU as it adds the boost action to the action bar.

I know that it adds it, but it’s not printed. The key term being printed. It would shut down vectored thruster coordinates as well as engine upgrade. If they wanted to boost though they could still run Pusj the limit and push off the coordinate to then boost.

5 minutes ago, carthwolf said:

I know that it adds it, but it’s not printed. The key term being printed. It would shut down vectored thruster coordinates as well as engine upgrade. If they wanted to boost though they could still run Pusj the limit and push off the coordinate to then boost.

Is there a precedence for this kind of restriction?

1 hour ago, SabineKey said:

Is there a precedence for this kind of restriction?

You could look at advanced slam. They change it from free action to action bar. They seem to be find with subtle changes and imo it would be the easiest possible errata that doesn’t effect actual card printings.

I believe making it not work on specific upgrades is more difficult for a new player to grasp rather than a ships printed action bar.

6 minutes ago, carthwolf said:

You could look at advanced slam. They change it from free action to action bar. They seem to be find with subtle changes and imo it would be the easiest possible errata that doesn’t effect actual card printings.

I believe making it not work on specific upgrades is more difficult for a new player to grasp rather than a ships printed action bar.

Yeah but engine upgrade and primed thrusters both add those actions to your action bar... I see what you're saying but the way you're saying it wouldn't actually prevent boosting / BR as per the written rules.

The advanced slam change works because bombs don't add a "drop bomb" action to your bar.

45 minutes ago, carthwolf said:

You could look at advanced slam. They change it from free action to action bar. They seem to be find with subtle changes and imo it would be the easiest possible errata that doesn’t effect actual card printings.

I believe making it not work on specific upgrades is more difficult for a new player to grasp rather than a ships printed action bar.

Like @HammerGibbens pointed out, the Advanced Slam change doesn't actually mean what's printed on your bar, but what should be on your bar. And by the wording of EU and VT is that the action bar should now make the boost or barrel roll action.

It's because of distinctions like that that make me skeptical of a fix like this. Mods like the two mentioned above as well as Shield Upgrade and Hull Upgrade act as if they are physical altering the pilot card. So stating that something can only use what's physically printed on the cards seems rather contradictory.

On 3/8/2018 at 8:44 PM, SabineKey said:

Is there a precedence for this kind of restriction?

Final salvo being printed primary weapon values of the ships, so punishing one don’t count for your jumps

16 minutes ago, DeathstarII said:

Final salvo being printed primary weapon values of the ships, so punishing one don’t count for your jumps

Okay, that's a step in the right direction.

On 3/3/2018 at 2:16 AM, Zura said:

Then they should have nerfed miranda instead of adv slam.

Or (even better) nerf SLAM itself. It was too strong an action. (Maybe still is.) But FFG rarely fixes the actual problem when they can nibble around the edges ... of the cake on another table.