Miranda’s ability should read “When performing an attack with your primary weapon...”

The Phantom(1) title should read “... at the end of the Combat Phase, it [the Ghost] may perform an additional attack with a <Turret Weapon Upgrade> equipped to a docked ship.”

I think everyone in the community is pretty much agreed that these two changes would be appropriate and beneficial in bringing these two ships in line. At least, in all the threads I’ve read I’ve never seen anyone actively opposed to either of these two ideas.

So what do you say, FFG? Can we go ahead and make these changes official? Or at least start running them past playestesters so that maybe by the time 2019 comes around we can get an FAQ with these changes rolled out?

And to the community: am I wrong? Is there anyone who wouldn’t be on board with either of those errata? Genuinely curious.

EDIT: apparently there is a bit of (vehement) opposition to these proposed changes, more than I thought. Let’s keep discussing it, but please keep it civil. thanks.

I don't have much experience with the Ghost. Tell me, what difference would be made by changing who had the turret equipped if it could only be used when the shuttle is docked?

2 minutes ago, GreenLantern1138 said:

I don't have much experience with the Ghost. Tell me, what difference would be made by changing who had the turret equipped if it could only be used when the shuttle is docked?

It makes you spend the extra 6 points to have the TLT on the docked ship in addition to the Ghost, instead of just the Ghost taking the TLT.

4 minutes ago, HammerGibbens said:

It makes you spend the extra 6 points to have the TLT on the docked ship in addition to the Ghost, instead of just the Ghost taking the TLT.

Ok. Still spending the same amount of points.

3 minutes ago, GreenLantern1138 said:

I don't have much experience with the Ghost. Tell me, what difference would be made by changing who had the turret equipped if it could only be used when the shuttle is docked?

Just now, HammerGibbens said:

It makes you spend the extra 6 points to have the TLT on the docked ship in addition to the Ghost, instead of just the Ghost taking the TLT.

Which, considering that 6 points is no chicken feed for a Ghost/Fenn list, means you are sacrificing some other needed upgrades for the duel TLT shots. If you want to keep your sweet upgrades and bid, that means you will have to get people in arc with the Ghost if you want to double tap.

@Herowannabe, I personally support the two changes in question.

Just now, Ccwebb said:

Ok. Still spending the same amount of points.

You beat me to it. I still don't understand how that's a nerf. You move the points around but the same number is spent.

That wouldn't change much for the Ghost/Fenn combo. At best, you force Fenn to drop the HotShot Copilot. Maybe also switch the Sensor Jammer for Reinforced Deflectors.

Just now, Ccwebb said:

Ok. Still spending the same amount of points.

Presumably, you're also taking TLT on the Ghost.

god, I'm looking forward to dropping TLT Zeb in a tight game and just winning.

Are people saying that OP's suggestion is that the Ghost and Phantom must both have the TLT for the title to work? Because I didn't see that in the original post.

Just now, GreenLantern1138 said:

Are people saying that OP's suggestion is that the Ghost and Phantom must both have the TLT for the title to work? Because I didn't see that in the original post.

"with a <Turret Weapon Upgrade> equipped to a docked ship.”

Yeah, that's what OP is saying. As it is now, the docked shuttle doesn't have to spend the points for TLT and the Ghost can still do a TLT double tap.

If it wants to shoot 4 times, yes. It has to use its own TLT during normal combat, then the Shuttle's TLT at the end of combat.

2 minutes ago, GreenLantern1138 said:

Are people saying that OP's suggestion is that the Ghost and Phantom must both have the TLT for the title to work? Because I didn't see that in the original post.

Yes, currently the Ghost can attack twice with its equipped TLT (once in combat, once at the end of the round). The proposed nerf would force the shuttle to also take TLT to accomplish this.

Just now, HammerGibbens said:

"with a <Turret Weapon Upgrade> equipped to a docked ship.”

Yeah, that's what OP is saying. As it is now, the docked shuttle doesn't have to spend the points for TLT and the Ghost can still do a TLT double tap.

The way the post is written, all you'd have to do is put the TLT on the shuttle instead of the Ghost, and that's still only 6 points.

1 minute ago, GreenLantern1138 said:

The way the post is written, all you'd have to do is put the TLT on the shuttle instead of the Ghost, and that's still only 6 points.

But now the Ghost can't fire the TLT as its normal attack, if you are putting it on the shuttle instead.

2 minutes ago, GreenLantern1138 said:

The way the post is written, all you'd have to do is put the TLT on the shuttle instead of the Ghost, and that's still only 6 points.

Incorrect. Again, the title only allows it to shoot with the Shuttle's TLT at the end of combat. If the Ghost wants to shoot TLT during its normal combat, it has to have its own equipped (or else only make primary weapon attacks).

I mean, it makes sense to me and always bugged me. The Ghost primary is the front arc; the shuttle primary is the back arc. The ghost has a turret and the shuttle has a turret. I feel like each ship should shoot one of its own weapons each turn. Main phase: front arc or ghost turret. End phase: rear arc or shuttle turret. Makes fluff and game-balance sense to me.

I'm okay with the shuttle shooting 4 dice while docked. It's tapping into the Ghost's power plant.

1 minute ago, skotothalamos said:

I mean, it makes sense to me and always bugged me. The Ghost primary is the front arc; the shuttle primary is the back arc. The ghost has a turret and the shuttle has a turret. I feel like each ship should shoot one of its own weapons each turn. Main phase: front arc or ghost turret. End phase: rear arc or shuttle turret. Makes fluff and game-balance sense to me.

I'm okay with the shuttle shooting 4 dice while docked. It's tapping into the Ghost's power plant.

That would be a neat thematic change.

Wait...say you had a Synched Turret on the Phantom. Could you use the Ghost's target lock for the double tap?

Edit: NOPE, I‘m simply wrong because I can‘t read

I have to be that guy again I guess...

Why do you want to buff the Ghost?

No objections to the Miranda change. But TLT on the docked ship has 4 negative consequences:

1. Is it still the Ghost that performs the attack? If yes then that‘s an entirely new mechanic

2. Currently you get 27 halfpoints out of a 73 point fortress. Your change reduces it to 24 points. Not cool, not helpful.

3. Picture this scenario: your ship with costs between 19 and 23 points (including 38-46pt large ships on half points!) manages to finish off the Ghost with its last shot. Previously that meant you were ahead. Now that means you are still losing. Not cool. Not helpful.

4. One statisfying counter is to Boba off the TLT (or title). Your change saves the TLT from that. Also from that old damage deck crit. Not cool. Not helpful.

8 minutes ago, D34d guru said:

Nothing interesting in this tread

...move along ppl...

the game is great as it is, just some players suck donkey ballz

k

8 minutes ago, GreenLantern1138 said:

You beat me to it. I still don't understand how that's a nerf. You move the points around but the same number is spent.

Currently you equip a turret to the Ghost, field a docked phantom and are able to shoot the same turret two times, leading to four TLT attacks.

The proposed change that I am so in favour of, I actually misunderstood the original ghost/phantom titles to be the way so many propose. The proposed change is that the second turret attack granted by a docked phantom has to be equipped to the phantom. So to have a second TLT turret attack at the end if combat would cost and additional six points. Now it would also be kitting out the attack shuttle with nice turret and that incentives playing pilots who can use the turrets and would make new (hopefully more fun to play against and with) lists emerge in the meta.

The alternative is to move the turret to the phantom and try to keep ships in the primary or auxiliary rear arcs and shoot them with the 4/5 dice attack first, followed up by the e pageboys TLT. But now we have a bit more arc dodging and less TLT nigh undodgabke madness.

However ps 11 coordinate fenn let's the Ghost boost to keep you in arc and out of range one but it's much harder now, nerfing the list in either plastic eor points.

I am very much in favour of the proposed Errata.

No, I'm not on board with any of these changes. I don't think the meta has fully settled yet, and I'd hope that people start working around what they have in an attempt to counter the meta rather than demand whack a mole nerfs every couple of months. And I mean what I preach, I took my own Imperial list to the Seattle regional and ended up 1st in Swiss, beating both the things you are calling for nerfs on.

If anything needs a look at it's probably the PS11 boost from Fenn, and that only because of how low PS the Ghost is in general. If you want that make them take Ahsoka.

4 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I have to be that guy again I guess...

Why do you want to buff the Ghost?

No objections to the Miranda change. But TLT on the docked ship has 4 negative consequences:

1. Is it still the Ghost that performs the attack? If yes then that‘s an entirely new mechanic

2. Currently you get 27 halfpoints out of a 73 point fortress. Your change reduces it to 24 points. Not cool, not helpful.

3. Picture this scenario: your ship with costs between 19 and 23 points (including 38-46pt large ships on half points!) manages to finish off the Ghost with its last shot. Previously that meant you were ahead. Now that means you are still losing. Not cool. Not helpful.

4. One statisfying counter is to Boba off the TLT (or title). Your change saves the TLT from that. Also from that old damage deck crit. Not cool. Not helpful.

If by that guy you mean someone who doesn't understand the change, then you're not alone in this thread.

1) Kind of, I guess. It's just referencing the Shuttle's equipped turret instead of its own for the end-of-combat attack.

2) Incorrect. You still have to put a TLT on the Ghost if you want it to shoot a TLT during its normal combat attack. So your Ghost costs the same, but your Shuttle costs 6 points more. Or you can leave the TLT off the Ghost, and yes make half points 24, but then it can only make primary weapon attacks during normal combat.

3) See point 2.

4) You could still take the title off the Ghost, cutting off its access to the Shuttle's TLT.

6 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

If by that guy you mean someone who doesn't understand the change, then you're not alone in this thread.

Thanks, drunk me deserved that

I understand now. Thanks to everyone who explained. I'm in favour of both the changes proposed by OP.