Just throwing this out there. How soon until maul gets a once a turn restriction? I guessing right after worlds. Any other guesses.

Why?

Because on the ghost with ezra he works on both the during combat TLT and the end of combat TLT making the 4 damage that much more reliable.

It works on 4 dice primary and end of combat tlt also, So versus 1 agility ships, it makes it possible to hit with every shot.

Maul isn't really the problem. It's the whole combination of things (full dice mods, effective damage mitigation etc) but in particular the PS11 boost. Other Ghost builds without Maul are almost as good.

No Maul is a major problem. Without him you have a chance (Slim one) to avoid damage with him you have no chance to avoid damage, unless you have 3 agility and even then it's still doubtful.

Proposed Maul errata, to make it work the way God intended:

"During setup, your opponent may cut this card in half and/or throw it into a chasm. If he does, this card is considered out of play."

I get that they thought it would be restricted due to the stress thing, but how can the playtesters not have identified this issue when the card was being tested. The names of the play testers are listed on the packing and most of them are very high level players. I believe part of the problem is that when the play testers figure something out, they might not tell FFG and keep it a secret in their back pocket, so when released they can take advantage of it. This is happening way to often now.

7 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:

I get that they thought it would be restricted due to the stress thing, but how can the playtesters not have identified this issue when the card was being tested. The names of the play testers are listed on the packing and most of them are very high level players. I believe part of the problem is that when the play testers figure something out, they might not tell FFG and keep it a secret in their back pocket, so when released they can take advantage of it. This is happening way to often now.

And what about the Accuracy Corrector Kannan version, or the FCS Synced Turret variant that are also winning at high rates?

Just now, NervousSam said:

And what about the Accuracy Corrector Kannan version, or the FCS Synced Turret variant that are also winning at high rates?

True, with AC, but at least no sensor jammer and it's only 2 hits, Instead of great defense and hitting all the time with 3 or more hits. Plus I already posted another thread on how to fix the phantom end of turn shot.

I'll post it again.

2 possible options:

State that the end of turn shot only comes from the turret equipped from the phantom, so if you want 4 TLT shots, you must by 2 TLT one for ghost and one for phantom

or

End of turn shot from phantom must be at a different target then the ghost shot during this turn. (Divide damage and at end game makes you want to eject the phantom because with only one target, you cannot get your end of turn shot)

Maul is not the problem. He’s 3 points, receives a stress to reroll, and you have the cost of bringing Ezra into the list for Rebels. I’ve always hated playing against the Ghost, but the true evils of the list was Biggs, Lowhrick, and now PS11 Fenn that gives the Ghost a boost with perfect knowledge. There’s a reason why Kylo was PS6 in the Upsilon and there was a reason why the Upsilon costs so much.

in arc only restriction*


honestly though, I'd expect a TLT hit before a Maul hit

The problem isn’t Maul. It’s the end of combat turret shot. Fix is easy: end of round shot from turret equipped by Phantom.

Double TLT will cost 12 points, which is probably fair.

19 minutes ago, nexttwelveexits said:

Proposed Maul errata, to make it work the way God intended:

"During setup, your opponent may cut this card in half and/or throw it into a chasm. If he does, this card is considered out of play."

Just get rid of the bottom section where he removes stress after an attack. That MIGHT bring him down to being worth 3 pts. As is he is totally worth 5-6 pts.

Just now, BlodVargarna said:

The problem isn’t Maul. It’s the end of combat turret shot. Fix is easy: end of round shot from turret equipped by Phantom.

Double TLT will cost 12 points, which is probably fair.

They’d just bring Autoblaster on the Phantom and then there’s no bubble and list barely changes with only 2 extra points to fit.

1 minute ago, GrimmyV said:

Just get rid of the bottom section where he removes stress after an attack. That MIGHT bring him down to being worth 3 pts. As is he is totally worth 5-6 pts.

This would be thematically appropriate, as canonically Maul should not have any kind of bottom section.

Just now, Tbetts94 said:

They’d just bring Autoblaster on the Phantom and then there’s no bubble and list barely changes with only 2 extra points to fit.

So on the initial entry you could get lots of damage to the ghost and stay at range 3. I'd totally love to face that.

Of course Maul isn't THE problem. There is almost never a single point of failure in this game anymore, it's too big and too complex. But each component of the newest combo-wing needs to be looked at as well.

Changing Maul to "once per turn" does precisely nothing to him in most lists. It reins in the Ezra/Maul/Ghost combo a bit. It would be a good sensible change and, honestly, should have been the card text from the beginning.

Is it worth another errata to make another card function differently than how it is printed? That's a much more difficult question to agree on.

Just now, eagletsi111 said:

So on the initial entry you could get lots of damage to the ghost and stay at range 3. I'd totally love to face that.

Sensor Jammer, HSCP, Fenn, probably R3-A2 now to combat Expertise, and an evade from the Ghost you’ll get hardly any damage onto it. Get in close you get autoblasted and Ghost doesn’t necessarily need to boost anymore.

1 minute ago, Tbetts94 said:

Sensor Jammer, HSCP, Fenn, probably R3-A2 now to combat Expertise, and an evade from the Ghost you’ll get hardly any damage onto it. Get in close you get autoblasted and Ghost doesn’t necessarily need to boost anymore.

Even so all of that can be dealt with using range control and abilities. Fenn would have to push to be in range 3, and the ghost would have to fly differently. You can take advantage of those things, LRS and focus, with multiple ships, fenn can stop one, but not multiples, now at range thing in 1 turn you could have a 4 hull ship detroyed by the ghost with TLT. In this case you might get it destroyed by primary, but you would get an extra die for range. Range control is key to this game with the TLT 4 shot ghost and maul it really means nothing for low hull ships with 2 or less agility

20 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

The problem isn’t Maul. It’s the end of combat turret shot. Fix is easy: end of round shot from turret equipped by Phantom.

Double TLT will cost 12 points, which is probably fair.

That's not an easy or simple fix.

This allows players to equip one kind of turret on the shuttle, and another on the Ghost. Plug the donut hole with a Dorsal or Autoblaster? And the shuttle is more of a threat once deployed, too. The change (it isn't clearly a nerf or buff) may be better, may be worse, long run. However, it opens up a complicated set of new situations. Also, the Ghost performing an attack with the Phantom's turret is odd. Should it use the Ghost's upgrades or the Phantoms?

There would be better ways to fix it that can accomplish a similar result. Adding the text "double the cost of any turret equipped to this ship" on the Ghost title would be far superior, and actually have the intended gameplay effect that most folks suggesting this Phantom-turret change are suggesting, without the potential to open up new problems.

*edit* I think some other sort of adjustment to the title would be better, but I don't have a good suggestion in mind.

16 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

They’d just bring Autoblaster on the Phantom and then there’s no bubble and list barely changes with only 2 extra points to fit.

ah man, those were the days

AC autoblaster ghost//phantom waddling up to palp aces and game over

then people switched to scouts

Maul can only mod 2 of those 4 attacks, Ezra is the one modding all 4

Perform this attack twice cause attack effects to trigger after BOTH TLT shots (from 1 instance) connect, so if he stresses for a reroll on the first TLT he cant stress again to reroll again on the 2nd.

Maul is fine. Hes 3pts and most of the ludicrous combos with him he softcounters by default, so they arent as bad as they seem.

Make Maul Scum only... problem solved.

The combo of Fenn and Sensor Jammer with the addition of TLT x2 is the problem. The other Maul-less builds can do pretty well too, but aren’t as major of a problem (except in the mirror, which is fine) as they might not even use SJ either.

So maybe doing 4 TLT shots a round is the problem? That’s what most people would say I think, but really it’s Fenn with Hot Cop that’s the major problem. The Ghost typically crumbles after he’s gone (if you have enough ships left by then).

So either making TLT small ship only or putting some kind of restriction on Fenn would be the answer. Maybe only range 1-2? Maybe make it like 4-LOM and have them pick which specific token they can’t use?