Tie/Ds havs the ability to melt away sometimes. But there is away to build a tanky tie/D. What do you think about this build:

Vessery, debris gambit, tie/D, traktor beam (after liking), mk II or stealth.

Try to stay in the asteroid field and play defensivly. I Think It can be harder than tie X7. But of course It Will lack a bit in action economy but I think it will make it up by the increase in survivability.

It might work? But combining the predictability of the Defender Dial with needing to hug rocks is going to make avoiding him quite easy.

I see what you mean! You have to spread your asteroids strategically;) I think It would be possible to get at least 1 evade almost everywhere on the table.

A Tanky Tie Defender would be:

Ryad, Lone wolf, /X7, Shield Upgrade and Otimized Prototype through Krennic on another ship.

Yes that is a tanky build, but it dosn't have any cannons. But Will Sheild upgrade work with director krannic?Is not the maximum Sheild value 3? I am not certain that Ryad build Is much tankier than a tie/D build with debris gambit, and you also get the cannon.

37 minutes ago, Hybrishybris said:

Yes that is a tanky build, but it dosn't have any cannons. But Will Sheild upgrade work with director krannic?Is not the maximum Sheild value 3? I am not certain that Ryad build Is much tankier than a tie/D build with debris gambit, and you also get the cannon.

Correct. Besides which, I'd probably go for the cheaper stealth device on a lone wolf /x7.

Debris Gambit is good, but because it needs an action it's only really useful on Vessery (who can get 'free' target locks to make up for the focus he's not getting). You'll need a target lock buddy or two, of course.

I'm not sure if I'd go for hull/shield or stealth - 3 evade dice with (probably) an evade is nice but not quite enough to reliably dodge fire, which means the extra hit point is probably better.

Yes, x/7 is my choice to. But I would like to get a tie/D to work. The problem with vessery is the Hugh cost and which wing mates he Should have. This list is somthing I have thought about:

Vess, debris gambit, tie/D, tractor, mk II.

Ryad, push, x/7, mk II

Sabacc, VI, title, LwF or Omega ace, swarm leader, advanced optics.

Can be fun to fly but I do not know how viable It would be.

I'm unsure if it'll really accomplish the goal. If you can reliably get 2 Evade tokens, and you face at least two incoming attacks, then things are great. You've got two tokens for defense, which can go a long way. However, a Focus spent on Defense is probably about as good as a single Evade on 3 green dice, statistically speaking. Evade is, I think, a little better, but it's close, and Vessery is enough of a mid-PS ship that he can often know whether he can safely spend his Focus when attacking. So the 2 points spent on Debris Gambit do provide a benefit, but I don't think it's a huge one.

On the other hand, Debris Gambit is stronger against Hotshot Copilot, since they can't strip your defensive token(s) with a weak attack from someone like Fenn Rau. Likewise, there's not much else you could spend points on for defense. Hull or Shield upgrade is nice, but that's the only other real option for a TIE/D. I've also had a few "I just need to roll paint" attacks where I've blanked out, and an Evade would have been amazing...

2 hours ago, Hybrishybris said:

Yes, x/7 is my choice to. But I would like to get a tie/D to work. The problem with vessery is the Hugh cost and which wing mates he Should have. This list is somthing I have thought about:

Vess, debris gambit, tie/D, tractor, mk II.

Ryad, push, x/7, mk II

Sabacc, VI, title, LwF or Omega ace, swarm leader, advanced optics.

Can be fun to fly but I do not know how viable It would be.

First thing I'd do is ditch VI from Pure Sabacc. You're investing a lot of points into Colonel Vessery with his Tractor Beam cannon. If that's the case, I want him attacking first, to reduce the target's agility. There's some merit to having a high PS Pure Sabacc so that he's less likely to have taken damage, but on the other hand, if Sabacc is the first target, Vessery is protected to start, and TIE/D can pour in the damage. However, taking something like Crack Shot (which is great because Pure Sabacc might only get a single 4-dice attack) is the same points, and also allows Vess to attack first.

Omega Ace would suffer from a similar problem: attacking before Vessery undercuts the potential of landing a 4-crit attack on a ship with reduced agility.

The list seems reasonable, like most sanely-built double-defender + 3rd lists, and should do decently if well flown, but I can't really say that it strikes me as being significantly better than other lists within the basic archetype.

That all sounds negative. I can't say it's really worse, either, than any similar list and Defenders are probably my favorite game-piece right now. I really love the TIE/D style and the damage it can do. I think the list would be fun to fly.

Funny enough, one good way to protect a TIE/D is with expertise. It means you always have your focus token for defense. In Vessery's case, since he doesn't need to take TL as an action (because he gets it from wingmates), and his offense is always fully modded. But that there is the real problem: with fully modded attacks all day long, Vessery is a huge threat. That means despite the focus token, your opponent will try to kill him ASAP, regardless of how 'tanky' you try to make him (he's still going to be public enemy #1).

So really, the best way to 'protect' a TIE/D is by lowering its 'threat level'. There are three ways you can go about it. The first would be to not take Vessery. His 'reputation' proceeds him, and so most opponents when they see him want to burn him down fast.

Alternatively, you can take really high firepower ships alongside with Vessery, so that no matter what your opponent chooses, you're other ships are still hitting hard.

The third thing to think about is ion cannon. Ions actually protect your TIE/D's because when an enemy is ionized, you can guarantee the safety of your ships by staying out of its arc (unless its a big base ship----but if it IS a big base ship, you can often ionize onto a rock or even threaten to walk it off the board, but you need two ion cannons to do so).

Example List 1 (no Vessery):

Rexler Brath w/ predator, TIE/D, ion cannon, TIE mk 2 = 44

Quickdraw w/ score to settle, title, FCS & LWF = 33

Countdown w/ AA & LWF = 22

99

Example List 2 (high threats)

Vessery w/ expertise, TIE/D tractor beam, TIE mk 2 = 41

2 Rho pilots w/ crack shot, XG-1, 'mangler', linked & LRS = 29 x 2

99

Example List 3 (double ions):

Rhymer w/ snap shot, TIE shuttle, operations specialist, tactician & TIE mk 2 = 34

2 delta pilots w/ TIE/D & ion cannons = 33 x 2

100

Of course, there's other ways you could go about utilizing these ideas, but hopefully these give you a better idea of how to effectively 'protect' your TIE/D's...

No, I do not think you are negative. I can agree with every comment. But I do think Vessery Will survive longer than you might suspect as long as you stay away from stress. The list can definetly be optimized but I do think vessery tie/D might be a option instead of the x/7 build.

Good point blade_mercurial. I like your lists and I understand the logics behind them. I can agree that the diffrence between focus and evade is marginal. Although I think first debris cambit will make vessery survive the first encounter a bit better. Expertis Will definetly gives tie/D more offence and of Course some more defence.

I think I Will have to try a build with debris gambit and some good ships besides him. Hoppfully he can take the beating better than the usual tie/D builds so the other ships gets a couple of turns extra to do their thing.

I have been using Tie/Ds a lot recently and keep thinking about this same problem, they die too quick! I like the idea of using the rage EPT for the double modded shots and the focus for defence. May not be able to use it every turn if you are against a stress giving list but it sure packs a punch. There is a ton of green on Ryad with the mk2 engine and combined with inspiring recruit on a shuttle, could work. As @blade_mercurial says too, they are both equally threatening so there wont be an obvious target priority

Colonel Vessery — TIE Defender 35
Expertise 4
Ion Cannon 3
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II 1
TIE/D 0
Ship Total: 43

Countess Ryad — TIE Defender 34
Rage 1
Ion Cannon 3
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II 1
TIE/D 0
Ship Total: 39

Scimitar Squadron Pilot — TIE Bomber 16
Inspiring Recruit 1
Intelligence Agent 1
TIE Shuttle 0
Ship Total: 18

Expertise and killing your opponent first is the only way I've found to keep TIE/Ds alive. It's hit or miss, but seems to be relatively effective.

I have similar experience and advice as blade_mercurial -- taking TIE/D Ion Vessery to Regionals and in other games, the rest of your list needs to either be a large enough threat to make picking Vessery a problem, or it needs to burn their list down faster than Vessery dies. Because he will.

Here's a thought:

"Quickdraw" (29)
A Score to Settle (0)
Fire-Control System (2)
Pattern Analyzer (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)

Colonel Vessery (35)
Expertise (4)
Tractor Beam (1)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/D (0)

"Pure Sabacc" (22)
Trick Shot (0)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Adaptive Ailerons (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

No Ion, but simultaneous fire with Sabacc and Tractor lowering green dice can be nasty.

Vessery is still going to be targeted, but once they've worked through a 6 HP Defender with Focus on defense, they'll still have to deal with Sabacc throwing 4 dice and QD, which is always a threat.

Your biggest challenge with TIE/D lists is always going to be dice variance. The games can be very, very swingy.

Yeah, you are probably right! It is hit hard or die!

I have to hope that the tie reaper gets coordinate action. Because I would love to get a tie/D with focus and sometimes 2 evade. You can do It with the upsilon and coordinate but it is to many points so It hard to get a decent third ship. I am still dreaming:)

Thanks for all your input! And you are all probably right that expertise is the better card.

11 hours ago, bydand said:

I have similar experience and advice as blade_mercurial -- taking TIE/D Ion Vessery to Regionals and in other games, the rest of your list needs to either be a large enough threat to make picking Vessery a problem, or it needs to burn their list down faster than Vessery dies. Because he will.

Here's a thought:

"Quickdraw" (29)
A Score to Settle (0)
Fire-Control System (2)
Pattern Analyzer (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)

Colonel Vessery (35)
Expertise (4)
Tractor Beam (1)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/D (0)

"Pure Sabacc" (22)
Trick Shot (0)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Adaptive Ailerons (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

No Ion, but simultaneous fire with Sabacc and Tractor lowering green dice can be nasty.

Vessery is still going to be targeted, but once they've worked through a 6 HP Defender with Focus on defense, they'll still have to deal with Sabacc throwing 4 dice and QD, which is always a threat.

Your biggest challenge with TIE/D lists is always going to be dice variance. The games can be very, very swingy.

This is a great list, saw quite a lot of it last year and I’ve picked it up for this season.

One possible change - drop the LWF on Sabacc to upgrade tractor beam to Ion. I prefer tractor when all my ships can use it.