41 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Except it basically came across as wanting stats is wrong. Or very judgemental. Which I found kind of rude. Instead of asking questions about the purpose.

And instead of saying, "hey guys, this is my reason why I'm interested in what potential stats for these might be," you got equally snippy and judgmental.

Gee i got snippy when you guys gave me an attitude for asking thoughts on stats for a canon creature. Cant imagine why that happened. I dont think one should have to get your approval to ask about stats for a creature. I would think one could get them without having to pull teeth. I thought this was the yes and system. Not the no and i am g onna ridicule you for asking.

I feel they need to ret-con other creatures to this naming convention.

Womprats = Tat Rats

Kaadu = Naboo Ducks

Tauntaun = Hoth Horse

3 hours ago, Archlyte said:

I feel they need to ret-con other creatures to this naming convention.

Womprats = Tat Rats

Kaadu = Naboo Ducks

Tauntaun = Hoth Horse

Acklay = Felucian Hellcrab

4 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Gee i got snippy when you guys gave me an attitude for asking thoughts on stats for a canon creature. Cant imagine why that happened. I dont think one should have to get your approval to ask about stats for a creature. I would think one could get them without having to pull teeth. I thought this was the yes and system. Not the no and i am g onna ridicule you for asking.

The canon creature is a plot device. How are we to stat plot devices? The non-canon version is non-canon, so it doesn’t exist. How are we to stat something that doesn’t exist? I mean, I suggested Corellian Bloodhound stats for a non-Force version but Dewback stats might be just as good. If you ask for thoughts on stats, these are perfectly valid thoughts: can’t stat plot devices, and for something that doesn’t exist you can make up what you want.

On 3/6/2018 at 11:47 AM, Nytwyng said:

In last night’s finale, we saw

a pair of Loth-wolves running alongside Sabine’s speeder bike during the post-RotJ time jump. Whether they’re the Force-manifested type or “regular” ones back in existence is uncertain.

You know, I am pretty certain that there were never any regular Loth-Wolves and they were always in tune with the Force on Lothal. It would explain their extinction, that really they were just preserving their own lives by hiding away from the Empire. People just took them as extinct because the wolves were fairly self-sufficient and had no reason to leave their hiding places. It's hard to say if they are just the Force given form, because they seem to be made up of solid matter, they have weight, they can carry things and interact normally with the world but recent developments with Force Ghosts might actually give more cause for them to just be the Force made manifest.

Regarding giving them stats, I wouldn't give them anything less than Nemesis stats (decent wound/strain, decent soak, some ranks in adversary, a Force Rating and some powers that are mainly used narratively or should the need arise), considering how well they did in combat against big bads and such. I'd also not define their hyperspace ways and just say they can do the thing whenever the need arises for them to do the thing.

I would also make them more of a story thing, where they wouldn't really appear to the players unless there was a reason for them to do so. In the case of the Rebels show, they were aiding the Rebels in the mission to stop the Empire and drive them off of Lothal. I'd probably also not allow them to leave the planet if I was making them a manifestation of the Force on Lothal, as they are tied to the planet itself. If they were just Force Sensitive wolves, then yeah I'd let them roam the galaxy.

1 hour ago, GroggyGolem said:

You know, I am pretty certain that there were never any regular Loth-Wolves and they were always in tune with the Force on Lothal. It would explain their extinction, that really they were just preserving their own lives by hiding away from the Empire. People just took them as extinct because the wolves were fairly self-sufficient and had no reason to leave their hiding places. It's hard to say if they are just the Force given form, because they seem to be made up of solid matter, they have weight, they can carry things and interact normally with the world but recent developments with Force Ghosts might actually give more cause for them to just be the Force made manifest.

Regarding giving them stats, I wouldn't give them anything less than Nemesis stats (decent wound/strain, decent soak, some ranks in adversary, a Force Rating and some powers that are mainly used narratively or should the need arise), considering how well they did in combat against big bads and such. I'd also not define their hyperspace ways and just say they can do the thing whenever the need arises for them to do the thing.

I would also make them more of a story thing, where they wouldn't really appear to the players unless there was a reason for them to do so. In the case of the Rebels show, they were aiding the Rebels in the mission to stop the Empire and drive them off of Lothal. I'd probably also not allow them to leave the planet if I was making them a manifestation of the Force on Lothal, as they are tied to the planet itself. If they were just Force Sensitive wolves, then yeah I'd let them roam the galaxy.

Thank you for being the first to actually post something useful in this thread.

People act like them being force sensitive makes them just a plot device. Meanwhile we have vornskyr stats and force sensitive acklay stats. So i dont really see the need to treat Loth wolves any different.

I am thinking sil 2.

Brawn 3. Agility 2. Int 1 will 2 presense 1

33 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

People act like them being force sensitive makes them just a plot device.

No, literally being an extension of the Force makes them a plot device. They are the same thing as a voice in Luke’s head telling him to use the Force, or a dead Jedi master manifesting to give advice.

They do whatever the Force requires of them, and are thus able to do whatever is required. They’ll be as Brawny or as Cunning as they need to be, or have a Force Power that lets them do what’s needed (or rather, the Force will work through them as needed), or are as Perceptive or Vigilant as is necessary. They don’t fail, because if they weren’t right for the task the Force wouldn’t manifest them in the first place and do something else instead. You don’t need stats for something that doesn’t fail. All you need is to determine whether them showing up and doing something fits the plot. Since they’re a plot device.

”Just saying they can do the thing whenever the need arises for them to do the thing” is just another way of saying they don’t need stats and they (get to) do things because of plot needs.

1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

Thank you for being the first to actually post something useful in this thread.

People act like them being force sensitive makes them just a plot device. Meanwhile we have vornskyr stats and force sensitive acklay stats. So i dont really see the need to treat Loth wolves any different.

I am thinking sil 2.

Brawn 3. Agility 2. Int 1 will 2 presense 1

I'd probs give them either a higher brawn or agility. Also you missed the Cunning stat. I would definitely increase their willpower as that directly affects how hard it is for someone to try and handle them with the survival skill or pull off Force powers against them. Silhouette and the rest seems legit.

Wounds I'd put at maybe like 15 and maybe a few points less of strain, natural soak of like 6. If you want to keep them mystical when they go over wound threshold they don't die, they just hyperspace teleport away to where ever they go to rest up or some such. If you want them less mystical, they die when they go over wound threshold like other living things.

They can obviously understand galactic basic, maybe other languages too since they are in tune with the Force. They pack a mean bite and can run enemies down as well.

8 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

No, literally being an extension of the Force makes them a plot device. They are the same thing as a voice in Luke’s head telling him to use the Force, or a dead Jedi master manifesting to give advice.

They do whatever the Force requires of them, and are thus able to do whatever is required. They’ll be as Brawny or as Cunning as they need to be, or have a Force Power that lets them do what’s needed (or rather, the Force will work through them as needed), or are as Perceptive or Vigilant as is necessary. They don’t fail, because if they weren’t right for the task the Force wouldn’t manifest them in the first place and do something else instead. You don’t need stats for something that doesn’t fail. All you need is to determine whether them showing up and doing something fits the plot. Since they’re a plot device.

”Just saying they can do the thing whenever the need arises for them to do the thing” is just another way of saying they don’t need stats and they (get to) do things because of plot needs.

Right. What i saw on the show didnt say plot device. What i saw was a creature with so.e connection to the force. They physically interacted with several things like a creature. The Jedi temple was a plit device more than they were.

8 hours ago, GroggyGolem said:

I'd probs give them either a higher brawn or agility. Also you missed the Cunning stat. I would definitely increase their willpower as that directly affects how hard it is for someone to try and handle them with the survival skill or pull off Force powers against them. Silhouette and the rest seems legit.

Wounds I'd put at maybe like 15 and maybe a few points less of strain, natural soak of like 6. If you want to keep them mystical when they go over wound threshold they don't die, they just hyperspace teleport away to where ever they go to rest up or some such. If you want them less mystical, they die when they go over wound threshold like other living things.

They can obviously understand galactic basic, maybe other languages too since they are in tune with the Force. They pack a mean bite and can run enemies down as well.

You think a 2 cunning? I am thinking a 5 soak for having 2 from fur and 3 from the brawn.

16 hours ago, GroggyGolem said:

In the case of the Rebels show, they were aiding the Rebels in the mission to stop the Empire and drive them off of Lothal.

I interpreted it more that the Rebels were aiding the Loth Wolves in their mission to liberate Lothal.

Looking at the last three episodes, I think discussions of plot device or no have become moot. They interacted with Stormtroopers, were still around after Ezra was gone, etc.

For stats, I'm thinking Brawn 4, Agility 3, Intellect 1, Cunning 3, Willpower 3, Presence 2

Soak 6, W Threshold 20, M/R Defense 1/1

Brawl 2, Cool 3, Stealth 3, Survival 2

Silhouette 2, Adversary 1, Bite (Damage 6; Critical 3; may spend 2 Advantage to grab opponent, who must succeed on an opposed Athletics check to escape)

There would also be a Nemesis version, the white wolf, that would have force abilities, be able to teleport, etc.

Probably add the Terrify ability. Everyone who saw them was rolling fear checks.

I like those stats for a Rival Loth-wolf. I can't think of a solid Force power to add to a Nemesis level.

3 hours ago, JRRP said:

They interacted with Stormtroopers

Well, Yoda could bop Luke on the head with his Force Ghost cane and Obi-Wan sat on a log, so manifestations of the Force do have some form of substance to them. I'm not saying one way or the other with the wolves though, I reserve my own opinions.

26 minutes ago, rogue_09 said:

Probably add the Terrify ability. Everyone who saw them was rolling fear checks.

I like those stats for a Rival Loth-wolf. I can't think of a solid Force power to add to a Nemesis level.

For force powers, I can see them having Sense, the combat side if not the more sensory side. Seek may fit, and for pack leaders Battle Meditation. Wolves are pack animals and coordinate in a fight/hunt, so a more intelligent wolf with access to the force may come upon this power naturally.

4 hours ago, GroggyGolem said:

Well, Yoda could bop Luke on the head with his Force Ghost cane and Obi-Wan sat on a log, so manifestations of the Force do have some form of substance to them. I'm not saying one way or the other with the wolves though, I reserve my own opinions.

Well they seem to play a pretty major roll so a gm may find stats useful. Pretty much everything in the game can be considered a plot device so i kind of find that to be a cop out.

If Vader and the rest of Rebels can get stats, why not a force puppy?

2 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Well they seem to play a pretty major roll so a gm may find stats useful. Pretty much everything in the game can be considered a plot device so i kind of find that to be a cop out.

Again it's really up to the GM's if they bring the wolves into the game, how they would do it, why they would do it and what level of significance they would have in their respective games. What my own opinions might be would differ from another's so I'm not really speaking about how I would use them, just giving suggestions for the OP, which is why this topic was created in the first place.

1 hour ago, GroggyGolem said:

Again it's really up to the GM's if they bring the wolves into the game, how they would do it, why they would do it and what level of significance they would have in their respective games. What my own opinions might be would differ from another's so I'm not really speaking about how I would use them, just giving suggestions for the OP, which is why this topic was created in the first place.

Wow. You do know i am the OP right? Cause it is rather condescending to tell me why i did the original post. Because i did the Original Post and what i was looking for was how peoplle would stat up loth wolves. I wasnt asking how you would use them.

9 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Wow. You do know i am the OP right? Cause it is rather condescending to tell me why i did the original post. Because i did the Original Post and what i was looking for was how peoplle would stat up loth wolves. I wasnt asking how you would use them.

My bad, I didn't pay attention to WHO made the post, just what the post was about. I agree with your thoughts on plot devices and needing stats. If it were the case that stats were never needed for plot devices then stuff like the way the Force can be used shouldn't have defined rules because it's a plot device, probably the biggest one used in Star Wars.

50 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

My bad, I didn't pay attention to WHO made the post, just what the post was about. I agree with your thoughts on plot devices and needing stats. If it were the case that stats were never needed for plot devices then stuff like the way the Force can be used shouldn't have defined rules because it's a plot device, probably the biggest one used in Star Wars.

There’s a difference between statting how a PC can use the Force and statting the Force itself. I’m not seeing anyone ask for stats for Force Ghost Obi-Wan (fortunately).

12 minutes ago, nameless ronin said:

There’s a difference between statting how a PC can use the Force and statting the Force itself. I’m not seeing anyone ask for stats for Force Ghost Obi-Wan (fortunately).

Just for funzies, he would have all of the dice and all of the knowledge but he would be cryptic and lie when it suited him, only giving out the information he thinks the PC's need. He'd also say he can't interfere when he clearly could, seeing as how Yoda can call down lightning from the sky as a Force Ghost.

11 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

There’s a difference between statting how a PC can use the Force and statting the Force itself. I’m not seeing anyone ask for stats for Force Ghost Obi-Wan (fortunately).

Sure. But you are assuming Loth wolves are the force itself. Based on nothing in the show to indicate such. Ezra said he thought they were extinct. That does not mean they were. Just like we though the celacanth was extinct for millions of years. Then we found one alive. Not to mention Zeb thought the Lasat were extinct. But no they werent either.

1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

Sure. But you are assuming Loth wolves are the force itself. Based on nothing in the show to indicate such. Ezra said he thought they were extinct. That does not mean they were. Just like we though the celacanth was extinct for millions of years. Then we found one alive. Not to mention Zeb thought the Lasat were extinct. But no they werent either.

Based on what Filoni said. But I’m sure we’re never going to agree on this.