This is one of those “probably won’t happen but might” cases.

I have Thweek in my squad and want to Mimick Zeb’s pilot ability. However, it seems that the ship is docked before the “Place Forces” step. Does that mean I am not able to use the Mimicked condition on Zeb because he’s technically not in play?

Truth is, I’d take Fenn’s PS almost every time. But against Kanan/Loh, Zeb’s ability isn’t that terrible on a 1 shield, 3-agility, Autothrusters ship. It could be tempting.

You answered your own question. Docked shuttle is not in play, therefore it cannot be mimicked.

5 minutes ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

You answered your own question. Docked shuttle is not in play, therefore it cannot be mimicked.

I was looking for confirmation. It’s what makes sense. However I’ve seen other threads that were inconclusive. Didn’t know if it’s been cleared up yet.

I have to disagree with the good Doctor. Thweek triggers during setup before ship placement. The shuttle wouldn't be "docked" yet.

1 hour ago, Stoneface said:

I have to disagree with the good Doctor. Thweek triggers during setup before ship placement. The shuttle wouldn't be "docked" yet.

Now that’s an interesting point. You’ve got me doubting myself. **** your hide sir!

2 hours ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

Now that’s an interesting point. You’ve got me doubting myself. **** your hide sir!

My sincerest apologies good sir. Never doubt yourself, just reread the card.

Yup. Nothing is in play when Thweek chooses his target.

BUT.

The shuttle IS out of play when he copies its ability.

Obvious RAI is that he can do it anyway though.

Technically it should work. The condition also state you keep the value for destroyed ship. Are out of play ship the same thing as destroyed ? Hard to say...

2 minutes ago, muribundi said:

Technically it should work. The condition also state you keep the value for destroyed ship. Are out of play ship the same thing as destroyed ? Hard to say...

The condition card covers that side of it. That's a non-issue. The issue is the timing of the shuttle being docked and applying the Mimicked condition. Technically the shuttle is docked during squad building. The condition is applied prior to the Place Forces Step.

I would argue in a tournament setting that destroyed and out of play are totally different. Your opponent gets points for destroying ships. But you don't get points for out of play ships.

9 minutes ago, jwilliamson12 said:

Technically the shuttle is docked during squad building. The condition is applied prior to the Place Forces Step.

I don't think this is correct. Since Thweek triggers before the Place Forces step, the shuttle is sort of like Schroedinger' s cat; neither docked or undocked. There's nothing in the rules that forces you to dock the shuttle if the titles are applied to both ships. Granted, it doesn't make much sense to have the titles if you're not going to dock the shuttle but it's not really docked until the units are placed on the board. That's when it becomes officially docked. Or undocked as the case may be.

47 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

I don't think this is correct. Since Thweek triggers before the Place Forces step, the shuttle is sort of like Schroedinger' s cat; neither docked or undocked. There's nothing in the rules that forces you to dock the shuttle if the titles are applied to both ships. Granted, it doesn't make much sense to have the titles if you're not going to dock the shuttle but it's not really docked until the units are placed on the board. That's when it becomes officially docked. Or undocked as the case may be.

Well, the Ghost title does force the shuttle to begin docked. However, I'd still agree with the broader point that Thweek could copy the ability of a docked shuttle. I mean, everything is out-of-play prior to deployment.

44 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

I don't think this is correct. Since Thweek triggers before the Place Forces step, the shuttle is sort of like Schroedinger' s cat; neither docked or undocked. There's nothing in the rules that forces you to dock the shuttle if the titles are applied to both ships. Granted, it doesn't make much sense to have the titles if you're not going to dock the shuttle but it's not really docked until the units are placed on the board. That's when it becomes officially docked. Or undocked as the case may be.

In general, ships are to be docked pregame, during squad building per the docked ship instructions. As for the Ghost/Shuttle, The Ghost title says "Equip the Phantom title card to a friendly Attack Shuttle and dock it to this ship." It's not a may or may not dock it. The Ghost title says you have to dock the Attack Shuttle after applying the Phantom title to it.

7 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Well, the Ghost title does force the shuttle to begin docked. However, I'd still agree with the broader point that Thweek could copy the ability of a docked shuttle. I mean, everything is out-of-play prior to deployment.

Sniped! lol. But I'm with you. I can't see anyone saying I can't take a PS/ability of a docked ship. If it happens with any frequency, they need to FAQ it just for clarification.

*technically* you could dock Fenn Rau with VI on a Ghost. I haven't seen anyone dock the Phantom II yet, but if they do, it's pretty clear that a Thweek player would want to take his PS most likely.

Or if it's a Lothal Rebel + Zeb and a field of generics (Wookies, X-wings, what have you), and there's nothing else worth Thweeking.

Just now, jwilliamson12 said:

Sniped! lol. But I'm with you. I can't see anyone saying I can't take a PS/ability of a docked ship. If it happens with any frequency, they need to FAQ it just for clarification.

*technically* you could dock Fenn Rau with VI on a Ghost. I haven't seen anyone dock the Phantom II yet, but if they do, it's pretty clear that a Thweek player would want to take his PS most likely.

Phantom II would be OPOP if the Ghost could equip Push the Limit. Have a buddy close, Coordinate them at the start of the Combat phase. Then the Ghost could PtL off the free coordinate action they performed and boost or such. But the Ghost thankfully cannot equip an Elite upgrade. OPOP is probably an exaggeration, but it'd still be pretty cool. You can kinda use the trick with Experimental Interface, and it'd work best with Jyn Erso on a Kanan, for a big stack of tokens. It probably would be OK when combined with a Lowhhrick, but almost surely not as good as Phantom I builds.

2 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Phantom II would be OPOP if the Ghost could equip Push the Limit. Have a buddy close, Coordinate them at the start of the Combat phase. Then the Ghost could PtL off the free coordinate action they performed and boost or such. But the Ghost thankfully cannot equip an Elite upgrade. OPOP is probably an exaggeration, but it'd still be pretty cool. You can kinda use the trick with Experimental Interface, and it'd work best with Jyn Erso on a Kanan, for a big stack of tokens. It probably would be OK when combined with a Lowhhrick, but almost surely not as good as Phantom I builds.

Well we see how crazy the Ghost is with two actions/turn. OPOP on a three-action-per-round Ghost is probably not an exaggeration.

Quote

During setup, before the "Place Forces" step, you may choose 1 enemy ship and assign the "Shadowed" or "Mimicked" Condition card to it.

The text on Thweek says only "enemy ship" and does not add any other restriction, such as that ship has to be in play. Enemy ships are all ships controlled by your opponent (even if they are docked).

Edit: Unless the definition of "docked" says something else about it; I don't have the Ghost rule booklet.

1 hour ago, Ubul said:

The text on Thweek says only "enemy ship" and does not add any other restriction, such as that ship has to be in play. Enemy ships are all ships controlled by your opponent (even if they are docked).

Edit: Unless the definition of "docked" says something else about it; I don't have the Ghost rule booklet.

That's a fair point. It's still an enemy ship regardless of being docked or undocked. I think I can buy into this logic

18 hours ago, jwilliamson12 said:

This is one of those “probably won’t happen but might” cases.

I have Thweek in my squad and want to Mimick Zeb’s pilot ability. However, it seems that the ship is docked before the “Place Forces” step. Does that mean I am not able to use the Mimicked condition on Zeb because he’s technically not in play?

Truth is, I’d take Fenn’s PS almost every time. But against Kanan/Loh, Zeb’s ability isn’t that terrible on a 1 shield, 3-agility, Autothrusters ship. It could be tempting.

You cant. The phantom is "docked" during squad building because both titles require you to dock the ship to the ghost in order to even equip the title. This actually came up the other night at our local store.

5 minutes ago, shaunmerritt said:

You cant. The phantom is "docked" during squad building because both titles require you to dock the ship to the ghost in order to even equip the title. This actually came up the other night at our local store.

There's been enough evidence laid out with in this discussion to lead me to believe you can.

Especially Ubul's last point. The ship is still part of the squad. Thweek's ability doesn't specify a ship being in play or not in play.

Potentially notable (as far as a RAI situation goes)... Thweek's ability doesn't stop working if the Shadowed/Mimicked ship leaves play. To that end, does he care if the ship *starts* the game in play? Again, this solves nothing as far as a RAW interpretation... but perhaps it leans towards an intended use?

4 hours ago, jwilliamson12 said:

In general, ships are to be docked pregame, during squad building per the docked ship instructions. As for the Ghost/Shuttle, The Ghost title says "Equip the Phantom title card to a friendly Attack Shuttle and dock it to this ship." It's not a may or may not dock it. The Ghost title says you have to dock the Attack Shuttle after applying the Phantom title to it.

You're right! I should've taken my own advice and read the card!

In a complete set up... per the "Learn to Play" rule book... it goes

Gather Forces

Determine Initiative

Establish Play Area

Place Obstacles

Place Forces

Activate Shields

Prepare Other Components

Squad building is in the "Gather Forces" step which is step 1. So the ship is docked by step 2. "Place Forces" is step 5 so when Thweek gets to chose right before then, the phantom has already been docked so it cannot chose a docked ship, because docked ships cannot be assigned tokens.. ergo you cannot give it the mimicked/shadowed token.

5 minutes ago, shaunmerritt said:

In a complete set up... per the "Learn to Play" rule book... it goes

Gather Forces

Determine Initiative

Establish Play Area

Place Obstacles

Place Forces

Activate Shields

Prepare Other Components

Squad building is in the "Gather Forces" step which is step 1. So the ship is docked by step 2. "Place Forces" is step 5 so when Thweek gets to chose right before then, the phantom has already been docked so it cannot chose a docked ship, because docked ships cannot be assigned tokens.. ergo you cannot give it the mimicked/shadowed token.

FFG needs to address this. The game is getting so convoluted that even the devs can't keep it straight.

4 hours ago, jwilliamson12 said:

Well we see how crazy the Ghost is with two actions/turn. OPOP on a three-action-per-round Ghost is probably not an exaggeration.

Two actions on a two-attack Ghost. Three actions on a one-attack Ghost is probably not *worse*.

31 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Two actions on a two-attack Ghost. Three actions on a one-attack Ghost is probably not *worse*.

I guess that would be the trade-off.