This will be a bit long, and quite possible pointless. I was hoping to bring our community together as well as give FFG a little bit better understanding of who we are. While we are all unique individuals, I believe we all share one thing in common. We all had heightened expectations about something in this game. Before I dive too deep into that, and why it's important, I think we all need to understand what types of players make up the current L5R community. I'll keep it to three main groups, so if you don't fall into or very close to one of these categories, I apologize in advance. I am not attempting to exclude you.

1 - Former L5R CCG player: This person could have anywhere from a couple months to a couple decades of experience with the old CCG. They have developed friendships and clan loyalties that have become a part of their very character. There are players with clan mon tattoos or L5R avatars that they have been using for years on non L5R sites. They create L5R game mods and role play L5R. There is a wide range in the skill level of these players. Some were very successful in the old CCG and want to see if they can recapture their former glory in the new game. They may or may not have found success in other games outside of the old CCG, but, they are back to take their clan/faction to the top of the new game. Others were more casual. They didn't attend many, or any, of the big events for the old CCG. They are no less clan loyal than the players that were considered the best of their clan/faction and no less passionate about the game and IP. Maybe they played the RPG or had a copy of L5R themed Love Letter, or just played L5R with friends, so they could play it their own way. They love Rokugan and are glad to see it back and ready to get back into all things Rokugan.

At some point during the lifespan of the old CCG, every single one of these players was let down or disappointed in some way. It could have been a very small thing, or very big. It could have been with design not making their clan as competitive, or just various design mistakes. It could have been for a lack of a cohesive or plausible story at times. It could have been a bad interaction with an AEG employee. Or maybe it was just because the game ended and something that was a part of their life, for however long they had it, was gone.

2 - Player with previous LCG/FFG experience: This is someone that has played at least one of the following games: AGoT, LoTR, Star Wars LCG, Conquest, or Netrunner. These players are have a varying amount of experience and skill with these games and FFG in general. Some are national/regional/world champions (or just very good in general) in one or more of these games. Those players have a very deep understanding of how to spot the most important elements of a game, become proficient in managing them, and thus remain competitive in new LCG's quickly and consistently. Some were more casual and just liked the various IP's. Maybe they wanted to play as a Jedi, or Tryanid, or a Stark, etc. They notice the similarities between some of these games and the L5R LCG and they see the numbers of their regular group jumping ship to the next hot thing, so they don't want to be left out. They have their own bonds with other LCG players that they don't want to lose. They hope maybe FFG has worked out the kinks of the other LCG's and will be able to produce a card game that has more staying power so they can end the cycle of starting a new game and then moving to something new because the can't find enough people to play with.

Everyone one of these players was disappointed or let down in some way by FFG. Maybe the lore of the game didn't match the card mechanics. Maybe the more casual players that liked the IP felt like the competitive players took advantage of them and never truly embraced the spirit of the game. Maybe the competitive players tired of the lack of balance and lack of continued support for a game which caused them to start over with a new game every couple years. Whatever the reason, it was something they enjoyed and want to get that back. The reason why I don't lump these players in with those of the next category is that they have some experience with the LCG model and FFG in particular.

3 - Player that is new to LCGs/LCGs/CCGs: Here we have maybe our most diverse group of players. Some might not have any experience with any card games, or they could have been playing any number of non L5R CCG's. They could be the magic pro hopeful that realized that they just don't have the deep pockets to stay in the game. They could be that Pokémon player that got a little older and is looking for something a little more challenging Maybe they play a lot of board games with friends and wanted to see if there was a card game they might all enjoy. They could just be someone that likes all things Samurai and never heard of the old CCG, but, wants to give the LCG a try.

While this is the most divers group of players, I find it difficult to write much more about them. The expectations of this group are also the widest ranging. They are least likely to have high expectations going into L5R, but, most likely to be dissatisfied when they encounter something that doesn't meet their expectations. There are so many types and reasons for them to fall out of favor with whatever it was they were doing and move to L5R, it's impossible to write about them all.

While these are broad generalizations and anyone could have a distinctly unique motivation for playing L5R that I didn't get close to, I think this is a decent summary of what makes up our current player base for L5R. The point I'm coming to here is essentially a restatement of my opening. Every one of us, no matter which group we come from, had some sort of expectation when beginning this game. "Of course they did Ishi.....Everyone has expectations about everything, don't be such an idiot." I don't say it like it's some sort of amazing discovery I've made here. The difference with this current L5R group is that the expectations of 2/3 of the player groups likely had higher expectations than a typical new player. When MTG first came out the only other card games we had played until then were, Poker, Cribbage, Hearts, Spades, Crazy 8's, Uno.......etc. there were very few games that were anything like that. New games started popping up and they were all being compared to MTG, but, because it was still such a small subculture of card gamers at that time, people entering any new game had lowered expectations because nobody really knew what to expect. Everything was "like MAGIC", but, really not at all in some cases. Now here we are some 25 years later and the industry has changed in so many ways that we have developed a sense of entitlement when it comes to our games. We pay good money not to get some rehash of something that has already been done, so we expect a lot out of this game because it has a rich history that most other games did not start off with.

I go through all this to illustrate that although we are all playing for different reasons and at different levels of skill, we all have something in common: Expectations. Expectations that were derived from vastly different experiences.

Did you expect that Phoenix were going to be the top clan because you felt they got hosed in the old game and didn't get enough time at the top? Did you expect perfect balance amongst the clans because this is the 33692070th LCG FFG has done and by now they should be perfect at it? Did you think the card release would go smoothly because you believe the LCG model is better than the CCG model because? Did you think that L5R would perfectly capture the Samurai genre and blend an amazing fantasy world with one that was also historically/culturally accurate?

We are all here because we had hopes that there would be an improvement upon whatever we came from. We want better. We want more. But, I caution everyone to take a moment to consider if what they were/are truly expecting is to get 'it all.' Spoiler alert: It's not going to happen. If you set your expectations to high, you are doing yourself a disservice and ultimately making things worse for others when you inevitably gripe about your expectations not being met. That doesn't mean you are not entitled to your opinion or allowed to voice your expectations, complaints concerns, etc., but, please try to keep some perspective and understand that we are all here with expectations and not all of them will be met. As I've become older, but, not necessarily wiser, I have come to temper my expectations and so far I am rather pleased with what FFG has delivered to us in such a short amount of time since Gen Con. That doesn't mean I'm drinking my perpetually half-full glass of kool-aid with my rose tinted glasses. I've had my share of disappointments with the game too. Just try to remember that you are not the only one FFG is trying to appease with this game.

I've got a bit more on the player experience/skill aspect of our group too, but, I think I'm gonna take a pause here and let everyone blast me for all this pointless babbling I just put them through. Sorry, but, you were warned.

it's funny because, in the end you aren't talking about much, but it's quite wise anyway. I think the whole expectations vs what we get and how we may be disappointed tends to come from one of the most meaningful point you make. It's not a matter of player base or type, it's the sense of entitlement people have developped. In the end folks aren't disappointed because there are game elements they like less than others, but because their sense of entitlement prevent them to cope with minor disappointment, reinforced by a constant feed of narcissistic nagging and whining available on L5R related social media.

4 hours ago, Nitenman said:

it's funny because, in the end you aren't talking about much, but it's quite wise anyway. I think the whole expectations vs what we get and how we may be disappointed tends to come from one of the most meaningful point you make. It's not a matter of player base or type, it's the sense of entitlement people have developped. In the end folks aren't disappointed because there are game elements they like less than others, but because their sense of entitlement prevent them to cope with minor disappointment, reinforced by a constant feed of narcissistic nagging and whining available on L5R related social media.

Thanks?

There was part of me that wanted to point out the general sense of entitlement people seemed to have developed in this age of instant gratification but I think it's more than that. I know plenty of people that play this game that have high expectations for a wide variety of reasons and demand a lot from the game but I've never seen that same sense of entitlement extend beyond that game.

Almost any sort or complaint could be chalked up to "people today just have an inflated sense of entitlement" but that lets FFG off the hook. They need to understand that we have high expectations for this game for legitimate reasons. We want a lot because we want the game to be successful, not just because we feel we are entitled to it. We want open and frequent communication about the direct of the game so we can scream from the rooftops "TAKE MY MONEY." Not the other was around were we say "Ok now that you got my money, gimme gimme gimme."

Most of the criticism of the game I see is constructive even of the message is somewhat hard to find amongst all the "outrage."

This is as much of an attempt to put FFG on notice as it is to try and bring out community closer.

I agree with many of your points, Ishi Tonu, but I believe it has more to do with the LCG/CCG model than the L5R game itself. By design, it wants players to expect more - that’s what keeps us coming back. True for Magic. True for Doomtown. True for Lord of the Rings. Whatever. I’m not a devotee of every game, but I’ve played enough to recognize the compulsive nature of card games. While L5R has some unique aspects of clan loyalty and lore implications, it’s more or less the same ol jam of people wanting what they want when they want it. Then we have the vocal minority, like myself and yourself, who feel compelled to talk for others. Which is not a bad thing, but it can be deceiving. If I was to just frequent these forums, as my sole window into L5R, I might get discouraged quick (which is worth reflecting on, and I think this thread attempts exactly that). But if I just play with my friends and local community, for pleasure, it’s darn fun! I can run the same two decks against the same two friends, for weeks on end, and every game will be interesting and different.

So it does have to do with expectations, and the homogenization of the internet, and our collective passion which brings us here, but which still needs to be resilient. And patient. And forgiving.

While I think that the first post is reasonable, the rest of this thread somehow reminds me on the Rick and Morty post from Nir.

On 3/2/2018 at 7:58 AM, Ishi Tonu said:

I've got a bit more on the player experience/skill aspect of our group too, but, I think I'm gonna take a pause here and let everyone blast me for all this pointless babbling I just put them through. Sorry, but, you were warned.

Not gonna blast you, all will eventually serve the Dark Lord! Mwahahahaha...