I would just say that the top X amount of pilots for each faction from meta wing are not allowed. Maybe top X upgrades as well.

That should get rid of most of the more "OP" stuff to keep it more casual.

Depending on how large of a collection you want to cater to, I would do one or more of the following:

1) Do a random point limit. We used to play 2 rounds every Friday rolling a D20 and a D10 to determine each round what the point limit would be. Minimum of 35 pts. It's quite funny what some of the lists you come up with are when you're given 76 points or 163 or some weird number. We would set the round timer based on number of points. 30min under 51 points, 45min 51-74, 60min 75-100, 75min 101-150, 90min 151-200. And we would also play it by ear - if we got to the 90min timer and only one table was done, we'd add another 15minutes onto the game. After all, we're all here to have fun.

2) Draw ships/pilots from a hat to determine *what* ships/pilots are eligible to list build around. And by that I mean perhaps you draw 5 ships for each faction, or 20 pilots or whatever the number is. You can stack the deck if you want - removing the K wing, Defender, and Scurrg if you wanted - no one needs to know what didn't get drawn :).

3) And I can't stress this enough - do some point limit that's not 100, even if it's just increasing it to 110 or decreasing to 95. It'll force people to come up with their own lists and try things they wouldn't normally think of. If you keep it at 100, too many people know what the "best lists" are and will try to exploit it (even if you have restrictions such as #2).

Here's a format I came up with a while back:

"I build you pick"

Every player brings two lists to the event.

Before each match, players flip a coin. Both lists brought by the winner of the coin toss will be flown (one by each player)

After the coin toss, the player who did not bring the lists that are going to be played chooses which list they want to fly.

After that point, play proceeds as normal.

Quick example:

Player 1 brings an A-wing list and a B-wing list

Player 2 brings a TIE swarm and 4 X-wings

When they are paired together, Player 1 and 2 flip a coin. Player 1 wins the coin toss, so the A-wing list and the B-wing list are the two lists that will be played during the match.

After the coin toss, Player 2, (who did not build the lists) chooses which list (A-wings or B-wings) that they want to fly.

There's a bunch of advantages to this format-

It lets people build completely non-meta lists. Every point on the power curve is available for play.

It promotes balanced play (in terms of listbuilding). If one person brings two lists that are not evenly matched, they will probably end up being stuck with the bad list. For example if a player brings a TIE swarm vs 6 HWK-290s with no turrets, their opponent is going to pick the TIE swarm every time and they'll be in for trouble.

It's relatively simple. People would need to know the format ahead of time, but there are no rules or anything to learn.

Disadvantages:

People need to be aware of the format ahead of time

People will be playing with other people's stuff

It doesn't have a cool name at the moment

1 hour ago, jonnyd said:

Randomize whether players fly their list or their opponents lists each round of a tournament

Wow that sounds super fun. The vets would have to build something they can beat with what their newbie opponent 'might' be bringing. I really like this idea. Random list swap.

Another option would be to partially preset squads.

have 2 or 3 options In Each faction, each option contains 2 generic pilots with preset upgrades. Players can add 1 different ship of choice to that. You can set the point value of the match to something that fits nicely with the points already spent on the required ships.

You can easily make the lists all fairly balanced but different in this, players still get some choice, which squad and the 3rd ship.

17 minutes ago, Babaganoosh said:

Here's a format I came up with a while back:

"I build you pick"

.......

Disadvantages:

People need to be aware of the format ahead of time

People will be playing with other people's stuff

It doesn't have a cool name at the moment

Child's Play? or Sibling Rivalry?

Based, as you say, on the concept where; If you have two children and one brownie, you let one kid cut the brownie and the other one gets to choose first. You know that the kid cutting the brownie is going to cut it as evenly as humanly possible.

I participated in a draft tournament. You brought 60 points of ships (no bigs). Then after every round you drafted from a list of ships, mixed faction allowed, no duplicates (ie: you have Vader, can’t draft Vader)

After 3 rounds, it was mini-epic matches. I think the final squads were around 130-50 points. A lot of fun.

Some of the best events I've attended were themed ones, for the 40th anniversary.

Every ship and pilot had to be on screen during Episode IV. And TLT was unique. That was it. Generic pilots were fine, it was assumed that eg Academy pilots and Black Squadron were represented amongst the random Tie Fighters seen.

Another event had ships seen in any of the original trilogy (original versions so no Outrider), allowing a wider choice. A 3rd one allowed Rogue One too, but the Ghost rather spoilt that day, whereas allowing Strikers and U-Wings was fine. No scum faction at all, and pilots seen without their ships didn't count.

22 minutes ago, Gilarius said:

Some of the best events I've attended were themed ones, for the 40th anniversary.

Every ship and pilot had to be on screen during Episode IV. And TLT was unique. That was it. Generic pilots were fine, it was assumed that eg Academy pilots and Black Squadron were represented amongst the random Tie Fighters seen.

Another event had ships seen in any of the original trilogy (original versions so no Outrider), allowing a wider choice. A 3rd one allowed Rogue One too, but the Ghost rather spoilt that day, whereas allowing Strikers and U-Wings was fine. No scum faction at all, and pilots seen without their ships didn't count.

That sounds like a cool idea and the rules are fairly simple. Its good to not have too many rules. I can see the ghost spoiling the day lol

My FLGS ran events called ‘Rookie Wing’, in an effort to give new players a taste of comepetative play, and we regulars something different.

80 points, small ship only, single upgrade per ship. ‘‘Twas glorious. I ran three Red Squad X-Wings with torps.

2 hours ago, Babaganoosh said:

"I build you pick"

This is kind of like "Cut the Cake" which we played Heroscape with. Each player brings two lists. d20 roll-off determines which player will choose which two (of the four) lists will be flown. Whoever did not choose the lists, chooses who gets which list.

I bring lists A and B, you bring C and D.
I win the d20 roll and decide to have you choose the two lists.
You choose lists B and C.
I choose to fly list B and give you list C.

You can't have a format the last people won't try to break, willingly or not. I even tried a "run fab's generator twice with your whole collection and pick one of those 6 lists" and more than one list did not look random at all, but rather well optimized to look random. I greatly enjoyed being forced to fly jank and would have gone with a single run, but I would have gotten complaints about that format as too restrictive.

I've been running a player survey locally to figure out what people expect out of x-wing days, among the finding, there's a strong wish for more casual format. Event days don't fully beat that out.

@Kaptin Krunch I'm curious about your piece and would like to read it (and probably comment too).

This is like a beautiful microcosm of why the "nerf everything until nothing is good anymore" mentality doesn't actually create a healthy metagame.

If a game allows for assymmetrical setup (different lists), and offers prizes for winning, then there is going to be somebody more clever than you, the designer/developer, who is going to come up with something abusive that you didn't think about and use that to beat everybody else that has been hamstrung by your complex web of nerfs/bans.

I don't think tournaments are a good setting for trying to dictate to players whether or not they are playing the game correctly according to subjective notions of what is right and wrong in a spaceship game. Gamers will game, and any type of formal system you try to create to define the boundaries of what you find acceptable, a gamer is going to find and exploit the weaknesses and loopholes in that system, and you're only recourse will be to change the rules mid-tournament to react, which is unacceptable in a tournament.

Maybe instead you could just have structured free play, where players are all expected to arrive at a certain time, but can leave whenever they like and are rewarded for the number of games they play rather than for their W/L record. That system seemed to work really well for the Pokemon card game being played by small children, so I bet it would work well for this too.

I also love trying to do fun, casual tournaments, and I will say this. If you keep mixing things up, there will, in one night, rarely develop an oppresive list. It takes the pros weeks of seeing regional results and playing themselves until the perfect, toxic drink is mixed. Look at the ghost-fenn problem. It took almost two months before the perfect set of upgrades was finally put together. So you throw out a weird rules twist a week or two beforehand. Will someone figure out a better list than someone else? Yes, some players are more experienced, but will they create an NPE? I doubt it. It takes a month or two for NPEs to truly develop.

Is crafting the new verb craze these days? I can't tell if minecraft inspired or or was inspired by it...

Changing the point limit is the first step towards a fresh, casual tournament. It doesn't have to be much 110, 125 and 150 points are all great levels. 75 is pretty good too, but feels restrictive in list building.

The second step is having secondary objectives in the game; a death match only goes so far. Good ideas include armada-esque objective system, where you bring 2-3 of a set of objectives, and the player with initiative choose from their opponent's selection. The Objective pack on these forums is brilliant - and last Saturday I participated in an objective tournament that in my top 3 ever.

The third step is to have one of the following:
1. No prizes at all, or a generic participation prize for everyone.
2. Random prizes in addition to the participation prize. Nothing too big, just $10 store credit or a gimmicky star-wars themed product.
3. Prizes based exclusively on (unrevealed to the players) awesome moments/achieving objectives in the game. For instance, a player who flies 1 or more TIE punishers receives a potato, or perhaps a lemon. This is the ultimate way to encourage a casual atmosphere. aybe include a participation prize too, depending on the tournament budget.

These three things combined destroy the meta, shake up the 100/6 format and break each player's perception of a hyper-competitive, intensely focused tournament scene.

1 hour ago, Astech said:

3. Prizes based exclusively on (unrevealed to the players) awesome moments/achieving objectives in the game. For instance, a player who flies 1 or more TIE punishers receives a potato, or perhaps a lemon. This is the ultimate way to encourage a casual atmosphere. aybe include a participation prize too, depending on the tournament budget.

+1 to this! Most of my tournaments also have some sort of casual achievement that anyone could accomplish. Like "most shots dodged this round, keep a tally!". As a TO I particularly like the secret achievement of "whomever brings me their completed tournament results first gets something nifty". I've also done: Most overkill on a ship (take a pic), Great shot kid! (one shot any ship), "I can't dooo eeet capn!" (large ship at 1 hull remaining), First player to lose (Arvel award), you can come up with literally anything. I usually wrote them down in envelopes and revealed them when one happened. Make sure and stop the tournament to announce the prize for all to hear!

13 hours ago, Kijaucey said:

Hey guys, looking for some input. I have been running events at my local store for a little while now and Im having a little trouble making a strictly casual event the competitive players wont abuse and try to get all cut throaty with the casual players or those that are using the event as an opportunity to playtest.

We had a specifically designed beginner 50pt furball and someone brought a beefed up Dengar, one of the best known furball options, against newbies.

This last one is a league with a lot of newer players so Im bringing B Wings and stuff to playtest like the new bullseye arc and a light Vader with accuracy corrector and we have some bringing ghost/fenn and x7 defenders.

Everyone gets a prize in this event from a draft pool based on their placement but there is a small trophy for first. I think I will eliminate this.

We even had a ban list implemented for one tourney but of course some lists thrive once tlt, harpoons, etc. are banned so that also did not work well.

The next league or tournament I am thinking about taking the top two worst ranked ships from meta wing for each faction and requiring at least 1 of them used per list. That way competitive aspects of lists can still be tested but the chances of people getting tabled by something brutal are less.

Any other ideas?

Well, there is this common misconception that flying casual means taking the most useless, off-meta list you can possibly imagined; some people clearly forgot that you can take this list and still be complete D*I*C*K at the table.

Casual gaming is not about flying bad lists, it is about friendly attitutude and being decent human being at the table.
If you want people who just started playing have an equal chance, just allow playing without cards, using only lists printed out from squadron builders. Job done.

I am sure that others have already hit some of these points. Please forgive a few repeats.

1. No prizes based on winning. Give stuff out for participating, or for doing silly/fun/thematic things (think achievements from video games).

2. Use different points values than 100. If tournament players aren't embracing the idea of playing a casual event as a non-tournament event, make it impossible to fly a tournament list.

3. Multiplayer/team events are your friend. Team events are rarely super competitive. You can still play to win, but by the nature of being a big game with a lot of heads, no one player gets to 'beat' another. If you need to make sure that people really can't be hyper competitive, disallow forming teams before the event - have everyone prepare a list of a certain size, then form teams up at the event (this doubles as a great way to get to know new people better). Team Epic, for example, is a blast and doesn't take a ton of extra effort to set up (bonus: folks who have epic ships, who are willing to share, can bring them down so new players who don't have them can play with the big crazy ships!)

4. Themed events. Pick a film, a specific battle, or make your own little story and whip up an event based on that. Note: be wary of adding a lot of extra rules.

5. Avoid banning stuff. The temptation to say "X is not fun" is strong, but a casual-inclined player may love X, and making a list of stuff they can't use can be very discouraging (where a tournament-focused player will simply see a restriction and still just build a murder machine with the new constraints). I happen to love the Ghost because I love Star Wars Rebels. Not getting to play with my favorite ship in an event because it happens to be tearing up the tournament scene is a major feel-bad.

6. Be explicit in the focus/tone of the event. You know your FLGS and you know your players. If you have a few folks who insist on making everything into a competitive event, talk to them directly and tell them that's not what the event is about, and that if they plan to treat it like one, they should probably not play in the event. If there's enough people who want to play a more competitive event that they can make a small tournament happen, invite them to do that instead of playing in the main event (space permitting, obviously).

Hunger games format is great for messing around casual.

Or... have each player bring 6 obstacles. So 12 on a mat at once and they can go as close as range one of a board edge...and do double damage. (2 rolls for overlapping).

Keep it simple. No Unique Pilots or Upgrades.

If you have to have a lengthy ban list of specific cards, you aren't really being casual anymore, as you're making the player do homework first.

14 hours ago, Kijaucey said:

Hey guys, looking for some input. I have been running events at my local store for a little while now and Im having a little trouble making a strictly casual event the competitive players wont abuse and try to get all cut throaty with the casual players or those that are using the event as an opportunity to playtest.

We had a specifically designed beginner 50pt furball and someone brought a beefed up Dengar, one of the best known furball options, against newbies.

This last one is a league with a lot of newer players so Im bringing B Wings and stuff to playtest like the new bullseye arc and a light Vader with accuracy corrector and we have some bringing ghost/fenn and x7 defenders.

Everyone gets a prize in this event from a draft pool based on their placement but there is a small trophy for first. I think I will eliminate this.

We even had a ban list implemented for one tourney but of course some lists thrive once tlt, harpoons, etc. are banned so that also did not work well.

The next league or tournament I am thinking about taking the top two worst ranked ships from meta wing for each faction and requiring at least 1 of them used per list. That way competitive aspects of lists can still be tested but the chances of people getting tabled by something brutal are less.

Any other ideas?

Do a Bingo side event with prizes. One of them must be (fly my ship off the edge before time is called) to encourage people to splash a small based ship that is useless.

Shift scoring away from the in game list performance. Give out points for thematic/interesting lists, for sportsmanship. (Based on player voting or feedback), and weighted so that a good score in those categories can offset a few lackluster scenario result scores.

Plus use scenarios with less emphasis on straight combat, where meeting a certain objective (like escorting a shuttle, rescuing the pilot, etc, to use some standard scenarios) is more important than kill counts, and final standing is based on points accumulated from the list building, sportsmanship, and completed objectives. So that even if someone shows up with a less than optimized list, if their list is interesting or thematic, they are a good sportsman, and they focus on the scenario objectives, they might still place highly in the standings. Assuming you even do standings, and don't just have the players vote to assign rewards (can't nominate yourself.)

Basically, as long as you leave the environment in a highly competitive mode (straight combat and win/loss determines all standings) people are gonna minmax the **** out of their lists to try and create unbeatable combat monster lists.

only storm squadron allowed

random lists from fab's squadron builder

9 hours ago, Astech said:

Is crafting the new verb craze these days? I can't tell if minecraft inspired or or was inspired by it...

Changing the point limit is the first step towards a fresh, casual tournament. It doesn't have to be much 110, 125 and 150 points are all great levels. 75 is pretty good too, but feels restrictive in list building.

The second step is having secondary objectives in the game; a death match only goes so far. Good ideas include armada-esque objective system, where you bring 2-3 of a set of objectives, and the player with initiative choose from their opponent's selection. The Objective pack on these forums is brilliant - and last Saturday I participated in an objective tournament that in my top 3 ever.

The third step is to have one of the following:
1. No prizes at all, or a generic participation prize for everyone.
2. Random prizes in addition to the participation prize. Nothing too big, just $10 store credit or a gimmicky star-wars themed product.
3. Prizes based exclusively on (unrevealed to the players) awesome moments/achieving objectives in the game. For instance, a player who flies 1 or more TIE punishers receives a potato, or perhaps a lemon. This is the ultimate way to encourage a casual atmosphere. aybe include a participation prize too, depending on the tournament budget.

These three things combined destroy the meta, shake up the 100/6 format and break each player's perception of a hyper-competitive, intensely focused tournament scene.

Alliteration with casual

I like the point switch up ideas and the objective based ones a lot, especially the good sportsman vote someone else mentioned. Sometimes I can be a pretty sore loser and that would help me reprogram myself in a way.

6 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

Keep it simple. No Unique Pilots or Upgrades.

...can we call this format "Let The Wookiees Win"?