I'm coming around to the idea of PS capping at 9. It would certainly help the likes of Fang Fenn Rau, Whisper, and others get a better standing in the meta. Now there are definitely drawbacks to this and I'm not convinced the change would make the game objectively better, just different. Subjectively, I think I might like it more, but can't fully say without actually experience.

57 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Uh, I disagree that bid wars are "even less fun" ....especially when you describe the "costs" of VI to your squad building being points and opportunity, so?....I don't track with your analysis of whet would transpire despite the fact I follow your line of thinking. Interesting....

PS wars cost more than bidding wars. What are you talking about?

53 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

Bid Wars might be less fun, but you don’t have to compete in them.

Not less than you have to compete in PS wars. The only benefit are simultaneous shots for native PS9. Everyone else has the same problem.

Bid War > PS War. Period.

Having 20-30 top PS aces viable instead of 4-5 is much better for the game. Plus it gives an inadvertent buff to generics in that they gain strength over heavily bidded ace lists- their natural predator.

But a cap at 9 brings so much more diverse 'Ace' pilots into the game, not just the usual Vader, QD, Nym, Fenn, Poe. IMO any version of this game where you can fly more diversity of 'big name' aces, the better.

Agree with everything. Love the idea of a PS cap, it would bring so many more pilots out of the shadows. Might have to get used to calling it an EPT slot instead of a VI slot though. I would give anything to have PS not be such a huge freaking deal. I've got so many other pilots I want to try.

14 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

Bid War > PS War. Period.

Having 20-30 top PS aces viable instead of 4-5 is much better for the game. Plus it gives an inadvertent buff to generics in that they gain strength over heavily bidded ace lists- their natural predator.

But a cap at 9 brings so much more diverse 'Ace' pilots into the game, not just the usual Vader, QD, Nym, Fenn, Poe. IMO any version of this game where you can fly more diversity of 'big name' aces, the better.

There are 12 ships at PS9, 27 at PS8, and 39 at PS7. That includes many TIE fighters, /fo, Punisher, Bomber, B-Wing, and so on. How many do you honestly expect to be played? Is the PS all that keeps these 25 ships you mention away? If yes then you should soon see them coming back because the PS wars are cooling off. Spoiler: they won't!

All but the 12 ships at PS9 have to give up their EPT slot to be suddenly so viable as you predict it. Plus they have to take a large enough bid. While the PS9 ships have their EPT slot freed up. I'd love me some Intensity or Juke Vader, or IntensityPoe, or ExpertiseDengar, or PTL Kylo, or PTL Soontir. Freeing their EPT slot makes them better compared to the PS7 and PS8 ships, not worse.

And then there's the bid. Currently a highPS list has a bid between 1 and 3 points. Removing VI gives me a 4pt bid, some will even have 5pt bids. With free EPT slots! Do you realize how good ASTS on Quickdraw is? Or Trickshot? I'll gladly take the extra die.

Really want to resolve the problem(?), eliminate both VI and adaptability and learn to use swarm tactics and Decoy. Play with the pilot levels they were designed to have and keep the inherent advantages those give the pilot.

I would cap VI to pilots PS 6 and lower, then create a new, more expensive EPT that could boost PS7-9 by 1. It would allow for a mini-PS race at the top, and let the lower aces join in more.

I would get rid of PS and you can assign a dial and activate your ships in any order you want, and after they're all activated you can shoot in any order you want. Once you've done this with each ship, you can start assigning dials again.

You don't take turns doing this, it's done in real time.

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

There are 12 ships at PS9, 27 at PS8, and 39 at PS7. That includes many TIE fighters, /fo, Punisher, Bomber, B-Wing, and so on. How many do you honestly expect to be played? Is the PS all that keeps these 25 ships you mention away? If yes then you should soon see them coming back because the PS wars are cooling off. Spoiler: they won't!

All but the 12 ships at PS9 have to give up their EPT slot to be suddenly so viable as you predict it. Plus they have to take a large enough bid. While the PS9 ships have their EPT slot freed up. I'd love me some Intensity or Juke Vader, or IntensityPoe, or ExpertiseDengar, or PTL Kylo, or PTL Soontir. Freeing their EPT slot makes them better compared to the PS7 and PS8 ships, not worse.

And then there's the bid. Currently a highPS list has a bid between 1 and 3 points. Removing VI gives me a 4pt bid, some will even have 5pt bids. With free EPT slots! Do you realize how good ASTS on Quickdraw is? Or Trickshot? I'll gladly take the extra die.

I think this is an important thing to consider. While I have stated that I'm interested in the PS capping at 9, what Dragoon has laid out is the likely cost. It'll help some pilots out (Fenn Rau and Whisper spring to mind), but it's not necessarily as meta opening as you might think. Then you have the good point of this now means PS 11 builds with a bid can safely just drop their EPT for more of a bid.

To reiterate, I am interested in the change (I like flying PTL Fenn Rau), but it is not a simple case of "change this and everything is better". I think it will simply change the situation rather than improve it.

38 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Errata adaptability and VI to capping at 9 and add a new EPT (costs two points) that boosts ps by 3 that is also capped at ps 9. Now all pilots at ps 6-9 can be aces. So much untapped ace potential, while native ps 9 ships can excel with proper epts, most named pilots can be aces.

Surely this is a good thing, yes it means bidding is a thing but we will also get more simultaneous fire so ships don't get ps killed as easily also good.

4 minutes ago, HammerGibbens said:

I would get rid of PS and you can assign a dial and activate your ships in any order you want, and after they're all activated you can shoot in any order you want. Once you've done this with each ship, you can start assigning dials again.

You don't take turns doing this, it's done in real time.

That seems like a recipe for stalemates. I want to wait to move my Ace until my opponent has moved all his so I can react, but so does my opponent, so we sit in a bit of a deadlock.

This also invalidates a large number of generics. If there is no PS difference between a Rookiee Pilot and a Red Squadron Pilot, then the Red Squadron pilot is just more expensive for no value. Heck, even Unique pilot prices become suspect if all you are paying for is a pilot ability.

How about all pilot skills get changed to 1? Flip a coin at the start of the match, and you get to move/shoot first. Or alternating initiative.

Just now, SabineKey said:

To reiterate, I am interested in the change (I like flying PTL Fenn Rau), but it is not a simple case of "change this and everything is better". I think it will simply change the situation rather than improve it.

And for the record: I'd love to fly Jake again, or to take an actual EPT on Vader instead of VI, or fly IntensityPoe. I would personally probably prefer to have a PS9 cap because I love flying slippery aces and hate the need for high PS.

But crying for a PS cap is about as clever as the cries for viable bombs and ordnance were - suddenly no one has ever done so and everyone hates it...

I for one am looking forward to* my Krennic - Vader - Soontir list with a PS9 hard cap. Or even better, Whisper with 5HP and about a 10pt bid just to make sure. Or an Ahsoka Tano that simply can't be hit by anything if I decide so.

*that's sarcasm.

5 minutes ago, HammerGibbens said:

I would get rid of PS and you can assign a dial and activate your ships in any order you want, and after they're all activated you can shoot in any order you want. Once you've done this with each ship, you can start assigning dials again.

You don't take turns doing this, it's done in real time.

Who assigns first, can you shoot before your opponent has finished activating all their ships, if so that stupid, if not why would anyone move first? To avoid bumping? Who shoots first, why? In any order, why can't I shoot you before you shoot me, is it now whoever rolls and assigns first gets to shoot first. If so it's just a *********** of rushed movement to shoot, if not why would I not wait for them to move first so I can move knowing their final positions for that round.

I could see something like assign and move in any order, after each ship is moved take a numbered token starting with 1, 2, 3 etc. Then in the shooting phase players take turns activating a ship they control, in ascending order of the tokens gained durometer the moment phase.

Now we have a reason to move first, First to move a ship, is first to shoot with ship, note not necessarily the same ship either. So you could have some rush in and have no shots and keep others back have them move reactively to the ships your open has then moved. It could work but still could result in the players waiting for the other to move so they get final movement. Perhaps there is no token gained for final move, note that ship could still shoot but one of your ships would not be able to shoot. Tbh, that's probably too punishing. Perhaps something like last player to move a ship gets a jam or stress token on one of their ships.

4 hours ago, Jedu said:

The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that it would be very healthy for the game as a whole.

And the more I think about it, the more I'm sure it would not.

2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

And for the record: I'd love to fly Jake again, or to take an actual EPT on Vader instead of VI, or fly IntensityPoe. I would personally probably prefer to have a PS9 cap because I love flying slippery aces and hate the need for high PS.

But crying for a PS cap is about as clever as the cries for viable bombs and ordnance were - suddenly no one has ever done so and everyone hates it...

I for one am looking forward to* my Krennic - Vader - Soontir list with a PS9 hard cap. Or even better, Whisper with 5HP and about a 10pt bid just to make sure. Or an Ahsoka Tano that simply can't be hit by anything if I decide so.

*that's sarcasm.

Ah, Jake. Your PTL/VI shannagans will live forever in my heart.

But yeah. Like many situations, there are a lot of pieces at play that need to be considered when a change is suggested. Everything has a cost, so finding out as much of the cost as you can and if you can live with it is vital.

A PS cap solves nothing! The present Fenn+Ghost build can be replaced with Asoka Thano, her pilot ability lets her spend a focus to perform s range-1-coordinate at the start of the combat phase..

2 minutes ago, Embir82 said:

And the more I think about it, the more I'm sure it would not.

Reasons please, what's the big problem here.

If your worried there is no opportunity cost for ps9 pilots then how about no upgrade could increase ps above 10. And add in some new epts that increase ps by 3 and 4 respectively. Call them intensive flight training and advanced flight training. Cost 3 and four points respectively.

Now ps 9 pilots still need to give up their EPT to guarantee top ps, and pilots of skill 6/7/8 can also compete in the ps 10 arena. Expansion usable pilots without potentially overpowering ps pilots. This is my favourite fix for the ps race.

Once again, Restricted List.

5 minutes ago, RedHotDice said:

A PS cap solves nothing! The present Fenn+Ghost build can be replaced with Asoka Thano, her pilot ability lets her spend a focus to perform s range-1-coordinate at the start of the combat phase..

And honestly, there really isn't that big a reason to change anyway. I think the most common Fenn+Ghost build currently has a three point bit. Rebel Rau drops VI to be at max PS and now has a 4 point bit.

I agree that 9 should be the cap and that 10 should be the upgradable cap, (ie. Vader would be 9 but Mauler Mithel could only be 8[but really who puts VI on him]) this would allow aces to become "Aces" again meaning that you would need to field 9s or Roark to guarantee PS. this would solve the problem of over-high PS and would allow Intensity and LW vaders to be more of a thing

2 hours ago, Henshini said:

Agree with everything. Love the idea of a PS cap, it would bring so many more pilots out of the shadows. Might have to get used to calling it an EPT slot instead of a VI slot though. I would give anything to have PS not be such a huge freaking deal. I've got so many other pilots I want to try.

You wouldn't. It would be a meta of PS 9 Whisper, arc dodging Dengar, Han Solo or PS 9 Dash. Make no mistake, it would not bring some forgotten aces out of the shadows. Also I don't see anything wrong with PS wars. Last I heard SOS in Poland won list with ships of PS 9,8 and 4.

I guess it's just my meta then. Last tourney of 12 players only 3 ships had PS lower than 10.

Soontir Fel + 65 pt bid?

14 minutes ago, Embir82 said:

You wouldn't. It would be a meta of PS 9 Whisper, arc dodging Dengar, Han Solo or PS 9 Dash. Make no mistake, it would not bring some forgotten aces out of the shadows. Also I don't see anything wrong with PS wars. Last I heard SOS in Poland won list with ships of PS 9,8 and 4.

... Except that aggressive bids means that lists geared for efficiency gain more and more favorability as the top PS lists bid lower and lower. There's a natural balance that 1-2 points invested in boosting PS doesn't carry.