26 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

I see the problem. I mistakenly referred to this system as "half list" when it's really "partial list". I called it correctly in the first paragraphs, and you'll notice in my examples there are scores of 37 and 44, etc. My bad. I'll edit the first post to be less confusing.

So, just so everyone's clear, I'm proposing scoring points for all damage dealt , not "half the list or nothing". So for my typos causing confusion.

Not quite clear on the system, then-- several of them look like half-points for half damage on the list ("Partial points on this list requires 12 damage anywhere," for example) with some additional wonky points for shields down.

On 2/28/2018 at 2:54 PM, PhantomFO said:

But it also disproportionately hurts fragile aces even more than they currently are. Soontir Fel might only take a single critical damage all game, but drew a Direct Hit? That's instantly giving up 17-18 points. You're just going to push things further into the realm of the high-HP fortresses than they already are.

To be fair Soontir isn't exactly making the meta.

For me I would prefer Half Hull instead of Half Hitpoints because shield regeneration is a thing (Which hey the Imperials could use some because only a few ships get regen).

Some might say regen needs to and they are usually the same people that say turrets and out of arc attacks need to go but for me I think it fits in with the theme. Plus if half hull was the point scale and there is few things that can regen hull points, you won't be able to shield token out of half points.

5 hours ago, ObiWonka said:

So, just so everyone's clear, I'm proposing scoring points for all damage dealt

Problem is, X-wing is a game about space dogfight . It means the purpose of the game is destroying ships, not making a contest of how many points of shields grazed.

Half points may be a necessary evil to avoid points fortressing, but I think the game must remain about making your opponent's ships go "boom!".

9 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

Problem is, X-wing is a game about space dogfight . It means the purpose of the game is destroying ships, not making a contest of how many points of shields grazed.

Half points may be a necessary evil to avoid points fortressing, but I think the game must remain about making your opponent's ships go "boom!".

The current TC open uses ‚points destroyed‘ as measure to rank (after games won), which is pretty cool and helps to prioritize „making your opponent‘s ships go boom“

12 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

The current TC open uses ‚points destroyed‘ as measure to rank (after games won), which is pretty cool and helps to prioritize „making your opponent‘s ships go boom“

Seems good to me !

On 2/28/2018 at 2:35 PM, RampancyTW said:

To be honest, the more I think about this, the more I don't like it. It really, really punishes generic lists, which can often expect to lose a ship before it fires and are most reliant on intentional blocks and the like to keep wounded ships alive. It places such a huge value on damage mitigation and/or not taking shots-- something many ships simply can't pull off. PS wars would skyrocket, since having a ship survive with 1hp has practically no benefit to you anymore if a couple damage on one of your other ships pushes you to the half-points threshold.

The more I think about it...

The recent stupidly high number of upgrade cards on stupidly large/medium ships with turrets/extra-arcs, the best dials in the game, repositioning options, upwards of 3+ dice modifiers per turn, 2 ship, point fortressing, no-large-ship-counters-in-14-waves-at-all, incredibly high PS plus free EPT slots, lack of adequate playtesting for the stupidest most extreme ideas like PS11 Coordinate Rebel and scum BS really punishes everything else in the game.

=D

Long live kir kanos.

5 hours ago, Giledhil said:

Problem is, X-wing is a game about space dogfight . It means the purpose of the game is destroying ships, not making a contest of how many points of shields grazed.

Which is why any scoring system sucks, because tournaments have time limits, meaning ships have to get home in time for dinner instead of finishing each other off.

Mine is an attempt to make it suck less, because every damage you do counts .

10 hours ago, RampancyTW said:

Not quite clear on the system, then-- several of them look like half-points for half damage on the list ("Partial points on this list requires 12 damage anywhere," for example) with some additional wonky points for shields down.

Every damage counts. In one set of examples, I was using half the list's total health vs. half damage to each ship to show that it's similar in those cases. The other, "shields down", was shorthand for "4 damage to Miranda, 3 damage to Low, 3 damage to Jess"; in other words it would barely score you anything using a half points per ship method (only 14 for Jess), while if you took my method and took that damage (10) as a portion of the list's total health (24) you'd score 10/24*100 = 42 points. With my idea, it doesn't matter where the 10 damage goes, though. Again, "shields down" was just shorthand. If you did 6 damage to Miranda and 4 to Low and 0 to Jess, you'd score the same.

22 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

Every damage counts. In one set of examples, I was using half the list's total health vs. half damage to each ship to show that it's similar in those cases. The other, "shields down", was shorthand for "4 damage to Miranda, 3 damage to Low, 3 damage to Jess"; in other words it would barely score you anything using a half points per ship method (only 14 for Jess), while if you took my method and took that damage (10) as a portion of the list's total health (24) you'd score 10/24*100 = 42 points. With my idea, it doesn't matter where the 10 damage goes, though. Again, "shields down" was just shorthand. If you did 6 damage to Miranda and 4 to Low and 0 to Jess, you'd score the same.

Gotcha.

I'm not sure this will have the effect you want it to-- low-PS, high-hp filler becomes a huge point liability. An Upsilon's 12 hit points, for example, means that killing a naked Upsilon flown alongside two Interceptors yields 66 points. Some harsh restrictions list-building limitations would come into play.

On the flip side, though, having a high-PS filler ship lowers the points gained for each damage done to the aces its escorting. One damage to Soontir is 6 points instead of 12. There's definitely a trade-off, but I think it's worth it to make sure the work your squad is putting in is actually reflected in your score. And as I mentioned in the OP, calculating damage this way for each ship is obviously more accurate, but the whole-list method trades a little accuracy for simplicity, just one calculation to keep the games and tournaments moving.

It doesn't need to be more complicated than half-points for all. The benefit (granularity) is not worth the cost (complexity). Half-points can be easily calculated on the fly, which makes it easier for players to evaluate their position in an ongoing game.

Damage against the list's total health isn't complicated and is just as easy, if not easier, to calculate than half-points for each ship, and avoids the situation I described where you get nothing from damage 9-15 on a Ghost.

well, no pun intended, but this method suggest is wonky as ****.

4 hours ago, DicesonFire said:

well, no pun intended, but this method suggest is wonky as ****.

It's actually a very simple system. Total damage done divided by total list health times total list points equals MoV. What's wonky about it? If you can tell me what's confusing you, perhaps I can explain it better.

I still say half points should be for half hull (rounded down for small ships, rounded up for large ships). But yeah it seems like the Kill Cycle for the Meta is over and it is moving closer to Tank Cycle meta.