Since two dice attack ships have so much trouble in the meta these days I thinking about what could fix them. Could we do something that was the opposite of Lightweight Frame?

Rapid Fire Blasters
Modification
You may equip this card only if your primary attack value is 2 or lower.
When attacking, during the compare dice results step, if there are more green dice than red dice roll an additional red die.
1pt?

How does that sound? I might pay for this on a Tie over crack shot.

I find it interesting. I would price it at 2pts for best balance IMO.

Sort of an inverted LWF, huh?

Seems interesting, for sure. Also pretty balanced, because since it's rolled in the compare results step, you don't get any chance to modify it.

Eh, iffy.

LWF has an inherit problem (except with the Punisher and soon Reaper) where it trades any benefit you got from obstruction/R3 for basically getting it at all ranges (Strikers with LWF have no real need to be obstructed or R3, it almost never yields a 4th die). This isnt terribly noticable though since secondary weapons at R3 still generate the LWF die, basically giving you R3 benefits back.

"Light Weight Blasters" would be super noticable that the R1 doughnut is now actually bad for you. Unless its a Protectorate (especially Fenn) or a ship with SD/Cloak/burns an evade token, you wont ever get a 4th red die out of it. Most 2die ships are either just blockers or theyre using ordnance anyway so this would be kinda counterproductive on say a Tie Fighter, who's almost always R1 so he can block. Any ship with this becomes a R2 preferred ship, and i cant think of any 2die non-ordnance users that would like that idea.

At 1pt, you arent really losing anything other than a mod slot to take it. I imagine it would win a few games but majority of the time i suspect it would be moot.

Also the timing would be weird. That timing window disallows any modifications on either side since its after both players would mod the dice.

edit: Plus the majority of problem ships are going to flatout ignore this effect since they have crap agility anyway and are just fat. Wookieship for example would have to be obstructed or R3 to give you that third die AND have Reinforce on him, any other scenario he still kills your offense with reinforce.

I've been ready for this to be added to the game for a while now.

10 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

edit: Plus the majority of problem ships are going to flatout ignore this effect since they have crap agility anyway and are just fat. Wookieship for example would have to be obstructed or R3 to give you that third die AND have Reinforce on him, any other scenario he still kills your offense with reinforce.

This is the real problem. 1 and 2 green dice with weird mods and auto mitigation (timewalk, reinforce, jammer) are more of a problem than green dice themselves and this mod doesn't fix that in most situations.

MajorJuggler has proposed some sort of title where a 2-dice attack ship can roll extra attack dice if it has a buddy nearby but then can do a maximum of 1 damage. It's difficult to word that in an unambiguous way that fits on a single card.

Actually, the biggest problem I see with this is that, like 90% of "fix" cards, it fills a mod slot. So it precludes the use of so many other essential cards. Perhaps it might be better to make it a title that's just not ship restricted (also, that way ARCs and TIE/SF's can't cheat it to get four dice).

Maybe make something like this?

17 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Eh, iffy.

LWF has an inherit problem (except with the Punisher and soon Reaper) where it trades any benefit you got from obstruction/R3 for basically getting it at all ranges (Strikers with LWF have no real need to be obstructed or R3, it almost never yields a 4th die). This isnt terribly noticable though since secondary weapons at R3 still generate the LWF die, basically giving you R3 benefits back.

"Light Weight Blasters" would be super noticable that the R1 doughnut is now actually bad for you. Unless its a Protectorate (especially Fenn) or a ship with SD/Cloak/burns an evade token, you wont ever get a 4th red die out of it. Most 2die ships are either just blockers or theyre using ordnance anyway so this would be kinda counterproductive on say a Tie Fighter, who's almost always R1 so he can block. Any ship with this becomes a R2 preferred ship, and i cant think of any 2die non-ordnance users that would like that idea.

At 1pt, you arent really losing anything other than a mod slot to take it. I imagine it would win a few games but majority of the time i suspect it would be moot.

Also the timing would be weird. That timing window disallows any modifications on either side since its after both players would mod the dice.

edit: Plus the majority of problem ships are going to flatout ignore this effect since they have crap agility anyway and are just fat. Wookieship for example would have to be obstructed or R3 to give you that third die AND have Reinforce on him, any other scenario he still kills your offense with reinforce.

My thought was that it would buff swarms of two dice ships a bit, since at range 1 they have a decent chance to hit anyway. 2 dice ships only need a buff at ranges 2-3.
Also two dice ships (like a Tie) don't usually have more than one action and may want to save it for defense, so lack of modifications because of the timing window isn't a huge issue as I see it.

1 minute ago, Kieransi said:

Actually, the biggest problem I see with this is that, like 90% of "fix" cards, it fills a mod slot. So it precludes the use of so many other essential cards. Perhaps it might be better to make it a title that's just not ship restricted (also, that way ARCs and TIE/SF's can't cheat it to get four dice).

Maybe make something like this?

Title would be fine with me. I was thinking having it as a mod keeps it beneficial for only generics, but I guess the only aces that I would be excluding would be Tycho and Jake on A-Wings lol.

I think its too expensive at 2 points. 1 point seems to be the sweet spot for anything like this.

I would happily add a diet Punishing One upgrade to a JM5K. I suspect the community would not enjoy it. Probably best to restrict it to in arc only.

1 hour ago, AngryAlbatross said:

Since two dice attack ships have so much trouble in the meta these days I thinking about what could fix them. Could we do something that was the opposite of Lightweight Frame?

Rapid Fire Blasters
Modification
You may equip this card only if your primary attack value is 2 or lower.
When attacking, during the compare dice results step, if there are more green dice than red dice roll an additional red die.
1pt?

How does that sound? I might pay for this on a Tie over crack shot.

Broken with triple Jumpmasters

27 minutes ago, Sekac said:

I would happily add a diet Punishing One upgrade to a JM5K. I suspect the community would not enjoy it. Probably best to restrict it to in arc only.

Yup fine with small ship only or in arc only

1 hour ago, gamblertuba said:

It's difficult to word that in an unambiguous way that fits on a single card.

Like that's stopped FFG before. . .

59 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Actually, the biggest problem I see with this is that, like 90% of "fix" cards, it fills a mod slot. So it precludes the use of so many other essential cards. Perhaps it might be better to make it a title that's just not ship restricted (also, that way ARCs and TIE/SF's can't cheat it to get four dice).

Maybe make something like this?

Well, I think that an opportunity cost should be present. Otherwise, we are just making 2 die attack ships "invalid" from a design standpoint. Personally I would prefer that the card features some sort of positioning requirement (out of arc, R1 of a friendly) that indicates that this ship got a "better shot" rather than just MOOOOOOR FIWAPOWUR!!!

1 hour ago, gamblertuba said:

MajorJuggler has proposed some sort of title where a 2-dice attack ship can roll extra attack dice if it has a buddy nearby but then can do a maximum of 1 damage. It's difficult to word that in an unambiguous way that fits on a single card.

Like "Optimized Prototype"? I mean, seriously, that fixes the 2-dice attack pretty well. Shame it's unique.

i'd have to agree i'd rather give the 2die ships something along the lines of "Nice shot" than "MORE DAKKA!"

Some ships (jm5k?) jump exponentially with an extra die for attacks in terms of lethality.

Something along the lines of Outmaneuver may be a good choice. Rather than a flat -1 agi, restrict it to 2die primary ships performing primary weapon attacks for 2pts and give it perma-crack. That way, long as the 2die ship is outflying the other ship and staying out of arc it can more reliably push 1 damage through, but the damage cap isnt raised at all by adding dice. This way it becomes more of a mindset of "do i want a heavy hit" or "do i want hits that are difficult to avoid but dont hit that hard"

I dunno, maybe the whole 2die problem needs to be tackled on a per ship basis. A blanket "fix" could spawn some big issues (the beforementioned jm5k example)

35 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, I think that an opportunity cost should be present. Otherwise, we are just making 2 die attack ships "invalid" from a design standpoint. Personally I would prefer that the card features some sort of positioning requirement (out of arc, R1 of a friendly) that indicates that this ship got a "better shot" rather than just MOOOOOOR FIWAPOWUR!!!

Luckily, it costs squadpoints and prevents another title, so it isn't necessarily just flat out "better" for everything. But I agree. I was just trying to take the idea from this thread and make it a little more concise and manageable.

My personal favorite way to do this would be:

Synchronized Flight Patterns

Title

When you would perform an attack, you may instead receive a weapons disabled token to assign the Supporting Fire condition card to a friendly ship at Range 1. You may not equip this card if your primary attack value is higher than 2.

Supporting Fire:

When attacking inside your arc, if you would roll two or fewer dice, if the defender is inside the arc and at Range 1-3 of at least two friendly ships with Synchronized Flight Patterns, you may remove this condition to roll two additional dice. At the end of the combat phase, you must remove this condition.

It's the least wordy way I can think of to basically say that two TIE fighters combine their attacks into a single four-dice attack. Seems fair that you'll be taking four four-dice attacks if you joust an 8-TIE swarm without killing anything.

9 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Luckily, it costs squadpoints and prevents another title, so it isn't necessarily just flat out "better" for everything. But I agree. I was just trying to take the idea from this thread and make it a little more concise and manageable.

My personal favorite way to do this would be:

Synchronized Flight Patterns

Title

When you would perform an attack, you may instead receive a weapons disabled token to assign the Supporting Fire condition card to a friendly ship at Range 1. You may not equip this card if your primary attack value is higher than 2.

Supporting Fire:

When attacking inside your arc, if you would roll two or fewer dice, if the defender is inside the arc and at Range 1-3 of at least two friendly ships with Synchronized Flight Patterns, you may remove this condition to roll two additional dice. At the end of the combat phase, you must remove this condition.

It's the least wordy way I can think of to basically say that two TIE fighters combine their attacks into a single four-dice attack. Seems fair that you'll be taking four four-dice attacks if you joust an 8-TIE swarm without killing anything.

Actually, this really sounds like a good way to do it. Whether FFG gets on board or not, I'd like several copies printed out for my casual games.

19 minutes ago, Woobyluv said:

Actually, this really sounds like a good way to do it. Whether FFG gets on board or not, I'd like several copies printed out for my casual games.

I think just being in arc isn't enough, in a hard joust a single tie could do this and three or more ties could be benefiting from it.

What about this.

Mod/Title (whatever)

Pinning Fire

Assign a 'Pinned' token to a ship you could attack instead of performing an attack this round.

Pinned (Two ideas feedback is useful)

When defending an attacker can spend a pinned token to cancel an evade dice after the defender modifies dice.

Or

When defending roll one fewer evade die per Pinned token, then discard the tokens.

Thoughts?

4 minutes ago, Scum4Life said:

I think just being in arc isn't enough, in a hard joust a single tie could do this and three or more ties could be benefiting from it.

I'm not sure I understand this - one ship gives up its attack to assign one condition to one other ship. Then that ship spends the condition when attacking. I'm not seeing how several members of a large swarm could benefit any more than just a few ships would.

As for Pinned Fire, I like that idea too. Maybe reword it a little to make it simpler, but it seems cool. Note that your second option is basically the same exact thing as a Tractor Beam.

4 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

I'm not sure I understand this - one ship gives up its attack to assign one condition to one other ship. Then that ship spends the condition when attacking. I'm not seeing how several members of a large swarm could benefit any more than just a few ships would.

As for Pinned Fire, I like that idea too. Maybe reword it a little to make it simpler, but it seems cool. Note that your second option is basically the same exact thing as a Tractor Beam.

You are right, I misread that the condition was spent. Which makes it more reasonable, but I think it is still too strong, perhaps you could only assign the supporting fire to a ship with synchronised flight patterns.

Range one limit is also a good power check to be fair, but adding two dice is alot.

And my two ideas are like temporary crackshot and temporary tractor minus the move.

What if the title read after attacking a target if you dealt no damage assign a pinned token. Where pinned = roll one fewer defense dice then discard the token. Not hugely powerful but also not forgoing the attack or having range limits.

I would rather see something along the lines of a bullseye firing arc for A-wings.

Or maybe something along the lines of,

“ Modification

When attacking, cancel two [hit] results to cause the defender to suffer one damage.

You may only equip this upgrade if your primary weapon value is 2 or lower. You may equip an additional Modification Upgrade.

1(or 2) point(s) ”

You still have to roll decently, and modifying dice still helps. Additionally it would work with secondary weapons, because I want Snap Shot A-wings to be a thing.

While I appreciate the game has had its fair share of offensive power creep of late, I'm not really sure boosting the firepower of an entire class of baseline firepower even more helps us solve the issue...

I dislike just adding a die. I do like adding a die but restricting things to one damage. Oh, here's a wording for a dual card:

"When attacking with your primary weapon against a target in your firing arc, you may add an attack die and flip this card."

"When attacking with a primary weapon, if your attack hits, cancel ALL dice results and deal 1 damage to an attacker. Whether or not your attack hits, flip this card."

//

I'll take that a step further. So I've got this thing rolling around in my head.

It's part of a larger thought experiment to create a ship which would take an Astromech or Salvaged Astromech, but also have Segnor's Loops or Tallon Rolls which are of the right speed for either R2 Astromech or Unhinged Astromech to turn them Green. Mostly, it's a project in seeing if I could design a ship which would seem balanced with green S-Loops or T-Rolls. As such, it's probably a 2-attack dice ship. Maybe even a 1-die ship. However, my latest thought gives it a free cannon.

Let's call it a Hapan Heavy Laser . Range 1-3, 4 dice. [appropriate restrictions] Dual Card. Attack: Attack 1 ship. If this attack hits, cancel ALL dice results and deal 1 critical damage to the defender. Then flip this card. (reverse) After performing an attack with a weapon other than Hapan Heavy Laser, or declining an opportunity to attack in the combat phase, flip this card.

So in my mind, this perhaps is a Hapan Miy'til fighter, like Isolder's Storm. Now, it wasn't stipulated as such for the fighters, but old lore said that Hapan ships had Turbolasers which were rather slow to recharge. That'd be an interesting mechanic for a ship. Arc Caster almost does it, but something less niche in it's design would be fun. Having a main armament which is every-other-turn combined with a ship which is really good at sticking on a target every turn is interesting to me. Having Green S-Loops and at least the Boost action would make it really easy for a ship to get shots every turn. But what if you don't really gain much of a benefit from having shots every turn, since your weapons are trash for half of them?

That's interesting to me. I think it'd be a nifty little pest, with a low-ish overall damage output, but on a ship which is always active and doing things.

I think a thematic fix is to make them cheaper. Like for example 5 points off a tie fighter makes a swarm possible in a cheap way. They wouldn't be crazy powerful if costed right.

Like a faction card. Tie squadron. up to 5 tie/ln ships can be purchasesd at a discount of 5 points per ship. Non unique pilots only. Not a mod slot.

You would open up more thematic lists with an ace or two with a swarm to support. Just an idea.