Lets spectulate the new strongholds for the clan packs:

Crab: Bow, during a conflict ready a participating bushi.

Crane: Bow, If you have less than 20 honor in your honor pool, bow a friendly courtier, gain 1 honor.

Dragon: Bow, after the conflict phase begins name a element, after you claim a ring that matches that element gain 2 honor.

Lion: After you win a MIL conflict draw a card, limit 2 per round. (heard something about gain 3 honor after break a province too)

Scorpion: Bow, during a conflict send home a dishonored character.

Unicorn: Bow, reduce the cost of the next non-unicorn card you play this phase by 1.

Obviously, the new strongholds are gonna be very tied to the theme of each clan pack, and I think those packs will be designed to open new play styles for each faction, maybe oriented to the more traditional style of each clan. As the Phoenix, who has always been very Shugenja/spell oriented, but the core SH didn’t play with that, so the new SH cover that play style, which is also supported by the new clan pack

So, for Crab, a Berseker clan pack, and SH with something like: Bow, put into play a Berseker from discard into a conflict. At the end of the conflict, remove that card from play.

For Crane, the theme will be dueling (obviously), and the stronghold has to be something to help winning with duels, but not entirely useless outside of a duel. Maybe a reaction that buffs a duelist when a skill count initiates. That way can be used during resolution of duels and conflicts.

For Dragon, more monks, to try to drift the play style away from the actual voltrons (monk rush?). Of course, some kihos and tattoos. For SH: Bow, move one attached tatto from one monk you control to another monk you control.

Lion: Sorry, I can’t think of anything.

Scorpion: Shinobis and poisons. SH: Bow, sacrifice a Shinobi you control, choose an enemy character with no fate on it with cost equal to the shinobi you sacrificed - Discard that character.

Unicorn, I really hope for Utaku Battle Maidens. SH: either “During a conflict, bow, choose a Battle Maiden you control - ready her and move her to the conflict” (could be too powerful) or “after winning a conflict, bow - honor battle maiden you control”

I expect we'll see the development of secondary themes. As such we should consider what those themes are.

Crab: Their primary theme is defense which the stronghold reflects. Secondary themes include sacrifice or Berserkers. I expect we'll see Berserkers. I could see something to make a Berserker tireless (i.e. Berserkers add Mil skill even when bowed) or that lets them destroy opposing characters when they win a conflict.

Crane: Their primary theme is Honoring but their current Stronghold doesn't really reflect that. I expect Dueling to be a secondary theme, maybe even something like the old Gardens of the Kenshinzen. Bow stronghold to have your Duelist challenge an opposing Character to a duel; bow/kill the loser or penalty if challenge not accepted. Alternatively something that gives a +1/+1 to your duelists while engaged in a duel.

Dragon: Their primary theme is attachments which, as many have said, doesn't really feel very Dragon-ish. Fate manipulation (not Monks) are the secondary theme and I'd like to see more with this. Something like "Interrupt: when your opponent declares an attack and chooses a Ring, choose one of your Characters and give them +X/X where X = the amount of Fate on the Ring for the duration of the Conflict."

Lion: Their primary theme is military swarm and their current stronghold benefits this very well. Their secondary theme is ancestral (lower-case) reverence, such as with the Kitsu Spiritcaller and Ancestral Guidance. I expect we'll see more like this. Maybe the ability to give your attachments the Ancestral keyword or the ability to play some events from the discard pile (kind of the like the Phoenix are getting with spells). Alternatively, I'd like to see a bigger Honor-running theme and could see that as well, i.e. Reaction: when an Honored Character you control leaves play gain 1 Honor.

Phoenix: This one's already been announced but it's still a good exercise to through. Their primary theme was Glory and their secondary theme was spells (which many feel should have been their primary theme). We see this very clearly in the original and new stronghold. We've seen some development of Scholars as a secondary theme and I'm curious how the Phoenix pack develops this.

Scorpion: Their primary theme is dirty tricks and their stronghold is immensely effective at this by reducing the cost to get and play those tricks. Their secondary theme hasn't really been developed but I'd suspect will be Shinobi. Possibilities would include something that gives Shinobi the Covert keyword or that allows Shinobi to assign after the defender assigns.

Unicorn: Movement is clearly the primary theme and outsiders is the secondary theme. I could see an ability to buy non-Unicorn cards cheaper or even a deck construction modification, allowing one to include cheap characters from the splash clan in the Dynasty deck.

2 hours ago, Tabris2k said:

Obviously, the new strongholds are gonna be very tied to the theme of each clan pack, and I think those packs will be designed to open new play styles for each faction, maybe oriented to the more traditional style of each clan. As the Phoenix, who has always been very Shugenja/spell oriented, but the core SH didn’t play with that, so the new SH cover that play style, which is also supported by the new clan pack

So, for Crab, a Berseker clan pack, and SH with something like: Bow, put into play a Berseker from discard into a conflict. At the end of the conflict, remove that card from play.

For Crane, the theme will be dueling (obviously), and the stronghold has to be something to help winning with duels, but not entirely useless outside of a duel. Maybe a reaction that buffs a duelist when a skill count initiates. That way can be used during resolution of duels and conflicts.

For Dragon, more monks, to try to drift the play style away from the actual voltrons (monk rush?). Of course, some kihos and tattoos. For SH: Bow, move one attached tatto from one monk you control to another monk you control.

Lion: Sorry, I can’t think of anything.

Scorpion: Shinobis and poisons. SH: Bow, sacrifice a Shinobi you control, choose an enemy character with no fate on it with cost equal to the shinobi you sacrificed - Discard that character.

Unicorn, I really hope for Utaku Battle Maidens. SH: either “During a conflict, bow, choose a Battle Maiden you control - ready her and move her to the conflict” (could be too powerful) or “after winning a conflict, bow - honor battle maiden you control”

But tabris2k the Phoenix stronghold is not tied to the Scholar (wich is the phoenix keyword), but with spells that in the new game are not even tied to shugenjas (most of it at least), and so the Dynasty deckbuilding can be more mixed.

I'll be a little disappointed if they tie the actions on the new strongholds with specific keywords like commanders, shinobis, etc..

At least with unicorn this is not going well, the cavalry requirement on SH ability makes it really bad. If they choose to do that we have to hope several keyword characters in the packs.

Crab: Action: Bow this Stronghold and sacrifice a Crab character you control - discard a character in play.

Crane: Action: During a conflict, bow this stronghold and target your participating character - that character challenges an opposing character to a Political duel. Discard the loser.

Dragon: Action: During a conflict, bow this stronghold and target your participating character and a non-claimed Ring - your character gains +x/+x where X is the amount of Fate on the Ring,

Lion: Action: During a conflict, bow this stronghold and target your Honored Lion character - Give him +X Mil where X is equal to his Glory

Scorpion: Action: If you are less honorable than your opponent, bow this stronghold and bow your target Courtier - your opponent discards a card.

Unicorn: Action: During a conflict, bow this stronghold and target a Cavalry character you control - Honor it.

3 hours ago, BayushiFugu said:

Crab: Action: Bow this Stronghold and sacrifice a Crab character you control - discard a character in play.

?

I don't think they are gong to do anything too bonkers.

The new Phoenix stronghold is strong but not so much so that it's an immediate jump to the new stronghold.

If it's going to be themed:

Crab berserkers

Lion Commanders

Crane Duelists

Dragon Monks

Scorpion Shinobi

Unicorn Scouts.....or likely some other way to use Cavalry

Crab Stronghold:

Action: If you have fewer cards in hand than an opponent, bow this stronghold – Discard 1 card at random for that opponent’s hand and draw a card.

Crane Stronghold:

Action: If you have fewer honored characters or more dishonored characters than an opponent, bow this stronghold – Honor or Dishonor target character.

Dragon Stronghold:

Action: If you have fewer ready characters than an opponent, bow this stronghold – bow target character.

Lion Stronghold:

Action: If you are more honorable than an opponent, bow this stronghold – gain 2 honor.

Unicorn Stronghold:

Action: If you have fewer ready characters than an opponent, bow this stronghold – Ready target character.

Scorpion Stronghold:

I don't think it matters because their current one is so above curve that it'd be pretty hard to give them something better to play, but hmm...

Action: During a conflict, bow this stronghold – each attacking character you control gets +1 political until the end of the conflict.

Gives every other clan their "Scorpion Tier" stronghold and gives Scorpion their "Core Set Tier" stronghold :).

45 minutes ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

Crab Stronghold:

Action: If you have fewer cards in hand than an opponent, bow this stronghold – Discard 1 card at random for that opponent’s hand and draw a card.

Crane Stronghold:

Action: If you have fewer honored characters or more dishonored characters than an opponent, bow this stronghold – Honor or Dishonor target character.

Dragon Stronghold:

Action: If you have fewer ready characters than an opponent, bow this stronghold – bow target character.

Lion Stronghold:

Action: If you are more honorable than an opponent, bow this stronghold – gain 2 honor.

Unicorn Stronghold:

Action: If you have fewer ready characters than an opponent, bow this stronghold – Ready target character.

Scorpion Stronghold:

I don't think it matters because their current one is so above curve that it'd be pretty hard to give them something better to play, but hmm...

Action: During a conflict, bow this stronghold – each attacking character you control gets +1 political until the end of the conflict.

Gives every other clan their "Scorpion Tier" stronghold and gives Scorpion their "Core Set Tier" stronghold :).

The Crab one is completely broken. I have no idea about the Crane SH. The Dragon and Unicorn SH only reinforce a hardcontrol meta, which I don't think should be a design goal. The Dragon one could be too strong against midrange decks. The Lion SH can easily lead to snowball situations, but is currently alright. The Scoprion SH will never see play.

2 hours ago, Ignithas said:

The Crab one is completely broken.

5 hours ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

Crab Stronghold:

Action: If you have fewer cards in hand than an opponent, bow this stronghold – Discard 1 card at random for that opponent’s hand and draw a card.

That will reeeeally step up the crab dishonor game... and it’s not something they’re bad at it right now. A bit OP.

5 hours ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

Crane Stronghold:

Action: If you have fewer honored characters or more dishonored characters than an opponent, bow this stronghold – Honor or Dishonor target character.

Limit it to “Honor target character you control” and it’s still good. If you want to play with Honored, how about doing it about moving an Honored status token from one character to another?

5 hours ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

Dragon Stronghold:

Action: If you have fewer ready characters than an opponent, bow this stronghold – bow target character.

This one I like it as it is, although it plays to the actual voltron playstyle of the Dragon. I’d like the new strongholds (with their clan pack) to open up new playstyles.

5 hours ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

Lion Stronghold:

Action: If you are more honorable than an opponent, bow this stronghold – gain 2 honor.

The only clan that I’ve treathen an Honor victory consistently is Lion. With this SH, I’d say that will become the new objective for Lion, without having to change their actual deck too much. Also, this SH would love Toshiro to farm Air rings.

5 hours ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

Unicorn Stronghold:

Action: If you have fewer ready characters than an opponent, bow this stronghold – Ready target character.

I’d say to make it “Ready target cavalry character”, but I got the feeling pony players will be pissed at me for just suggesting it.

1 hour ago, Tabris2k said:

The only clan that I’ve treathen an Honor victory consistently is Lion. With this SH, I’d say that will become the new objective for Lion, without having to change their actual deck too much. Also, this SH would love Toshiro to farm Air rings.

I would be SOOOOO happy with this stronghold. I am doing reasonably well with my Lion Honour at the moment (probably trending around 40% wins? Which I feel is decent given Honour is not exactly reliable...) With this stronghold I think I would be blitzing my way through.

8 hours ago, Ignithas said:

The Crab one is completely broken. I have no idea about the Crane SH. The Dragon and Unicorn SH only reinforce a hardcontrol meta, which I don't think should be a design goal. The Dragon one could be too strong against midrange decks. The Lion SH can easily lead to snowball situations, but is currently alright. The Scoprion SH will never see play.

Well yea.

I mean we're trying to print strongholds that are as good as Scorpion's right? I think these are all perfectly in line :). Free ring under certain conditions relative to the ring. #balancethemeta.

8 hours ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

Well yea.

I mean we're trying to print strongholds that are as good as Scorpion's right? I think these are all perfectly in line :). Free ring under certain conditions relative to the ring. #balancethemeta.

The problem is that not all ring effects are created equally. While the Scorpion SH is one of the best (maybe the best) stronghold in the game, the Air ring is one of the rings with the least ímpact in the game (value often rises in the lategame) and the Scorpion SH shuts off if you go too hard for the dishonor victory. The earth ring on the other hand has a big impact throughout the game, especially in a clan that can threaten honor.

On 27/02/2018 at 10:21 AM, Joe From Cincinnati said:

Crab Stronghold:

Action: If you have fewer cards in hand than an opponent, bow this stronghold – Discard 1 card at random for that opponent’s hand and draw a card.

Crane Stronghold:

Action: If you have fewer honored characters or more dishonored characters than an opponent, bow this stronghold – Honor or Dishonor target character.

Dragon Stronghold:

Action: If you have fewer ready characters than an opponent, bow this stronghold – bow target character.

Lion Stronghold:

Action: If you are more honorable than an opponent, bow this stronghold – gain 2 honor.

Unicorn Stronghold:

Action: If you have fewer ready characters than an opponent, bow this stronghold – Ready target character.

Scorpion Stronghold:

I don't think it matters because their current one is so above curve that it'd be pretty hard to give them something better to play, but hmm...

Action: During a conflict, bow this stronghold – each attacking character you control gets +1 political until the end of the conflict.

Gives every other clan their "Scorpion Tier" stronghold and gives Scorpion their "Core Set Tier" stronghold :).

I see what you've done here..

Seems the game will gain a lot of power hehehhe =)

Funny is scorpion seems the only that you really thinked a balanced one, could be released, maybe the lion too, ok.

Bow or ready a character without target restrictions would be too strong, and honor/dishonor too, unless you restric to honor/dishonor chars without fate, but still cards that maintain characters on table would be a problem.

But if the other clans will receive "free" rings I would like the earth for mine too.

As written? The Dragon stronghold would be pretty bonkers to. Bow anything during any phase ........ummmmm yes please.

Another one for the Phoenix:

Reaction : After you win a conflict, choose any other ring in the unclaimed or claimed ring pools, bow this stronghold - change the disputed ring for the chosen ring.

If we got specific strongholds:

Crab: During a conflict, sacrifice a berserker character, target another character you control, give him +3M until the end of the conflict.

Crane: After you win a duel, bow, gain 1 honor, or 2 if is a duelist.

Dragon : After you win a conflict, bow a participating monk you control, resolve the ring effects.

Lion: Bow, during a MIL conflict target a commander you control and an opponent's character, move the character to the conflict.

Unicorn: Bow, choose a restriction on a card you control, ignore it.

Scorpion: Bow, give each shinobi character you control +1/+1 until the conflict ends.

48 minutes ago, L5RBr said:

If we got specific strongholds:

Crab: During a conflict, sacrifice a berserker character, target another character you control, give him +3M until the end of the conflict.

Interesting idea, but unless you have a berserker that is < 3M, why would you sac him? - maybe a stronghold that allows the berserker to do something to himself perhaps? - eg) Akodo Toshiro ( While this character is attacking – it gets +5M until the end of the conflict. Provinces cannot be broken during this conflict. At the end of the conflict, if you do not control a Commander character, discard this character.) - of course you can always tune the numbers and the other parameters.

48 minutes ago, L5RBr said:

Crane: After you win a duel, bow, gain 1 honor, or 2 if is a duelist.

Dragon : After you win a conflict, bow a participating monk you control, resolve the ring effects.

It's got some potential, but that's way powerful, it's only on a couple of champion level characters for a reason. - Maybe "After you win a conflict as an attacker: Bow a monk - you may resolve any ring effect (instead of the ring that was declared)." - that way you can for example, get a double ring effect if you can win both, get fate off one ring, but take the effects on another ring that didn't have the fate, or you can still resolve a ring that your opponent takes away.

48 minutes ago, L5RBr said:

Lion: Bow, during a MIL conflict target a commander you control and an opponent's character, move the character to the conflict.

Unicorn: Bow, choose a restriction on a card you control, ignore it.

Would need a lot of clarification - for example - I can't play a card because I don't have enough fate is that a restriction? does this alter the deckbuilding rules?

48 minutes ago, L5RBr said:

Scorpion: Bow, give each shinobi character you control +1/+1 until the conflict ends.

4 hours ago, L5RBr said:

Unicorn: Bow, choose a restriction on a card you control, ignore it.

I still think this would be underpowered for the current Unicorn character pool.

Honestly, I think Unicorn could very well be one of the last strongholds to get an update, along with Scorpion, if FFG is doing it based on which stronghold they feel needs updating the most.

They are easily the two best strongholds in the game. Unicorn needs better characters, not a new stronghold. Of course there will be plenty that disagree with this and I can see the point that if the stronghold was better the current crop of Unicorn characters would be fine.............but ask yourself, is that where you want the bar set for Unicorn characters?

Phoenix Core Stronghold always seems a little out of place for the clan. Glory was kind of their thing, but, it didn't feel Phoenix-y to me. Others that are more loyal probably have a better grasp on it, but, I never could buy into the Glory matters theme for them. This is one of the reasons why they were the last clan I got around to playing and still play the least. All the others, even the Unicorn, feel more thematically accurate to me. I really like the new Phoenix stronghold that is coming though and that really makes me want to play them more. So I guess that would be a success for FFG since even though I'm not a dedicated Phoenix player, they got me seriously considering dropping some coin on the Phoenix Clan pack. I just wish they would clarify if these Clan packs are evergreen or not.

1 hour ago, Ishi Tonu said:

I still think this would be underpowered for the current Unicorn character pool.

Honestly, I think Unicorn could very well be one of the last strongholds to get an update, along with Scorpion, if FFG is doing it based on which stronghold they feel needs updating the most.

They are easily the two best strongholds in the game. Unicorn needs better characters, not a new stronghold. Of course there will be plenty that disagree with this and I can see the point that if the stronghold was better the current crop of Unicorn characters would be fine.............but ask yourself, is that where you want the bar set for Unicorn characters?

Phoenix Core Stronghold always seems a little out of place for the clan. Glory was kind of their thing, but, it didn't feel Phoenix-y to me. Others that are more loyal probably have a better grasp on it, but, I never could buy into the Glory matters theme for them. This is one of the reasons why they were the last clan I got around to playing and still play the least. All the others, even the Unicorn, feel more thematically accurate to me. I really like the new Phoenix stronghold that is coming though and that really makes me want to play them more. So I guess that would be a success for FFG since even though I'm not a dedicated Phoenix player, they got me seriously considering dropping some coin on the Phoenix Clan pack. I just wish they would clarify if these Clan packs are evergreen or not.

Agreed, the Unicorn problem should have been caught during the beta - but the product is now out, so what do you do?

15 Stronghold cards is not going to fix anything - They need a complete rework - You can't redo the core set now.

From the designer interview - My guess is given the other costs, they will leave Unicorn cards to be unplayable and accept the loss of the Unicorn player base rather than rework Unicorn.

What designer interview gives you the impression design is going to abandon anything at this point in the game?

All Unicorn needs is a couple characters with decent printed abilities and they are right back in the mix......and then a couple conflict cards that can impact a conflict in a meaningful way without requiring a bunch of hoops to jump through......and......

But seriously where did the designers say they quit on my little pONIs

44 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

But seriously where did the designers say they quit on my little pONIs

Yeah, you can't quit something you never had in the first place.

8 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

I still think this would be underpowered for the current Unicorn character pool.

Honestly, I think Unicorn could very well be one of the last strongholds to get an update, along with Scorpion, if FFG is doing it based on which stronghold they feel needs updating the most.

They are easily the two best strongholds in the game. Unicorn needs better characters, not a new stronghold. Of course there will be plenty that disagree with this and I can see the point that if the stronghold was better the current crop of Unicorn characters would be fine.............but ask yourself, is that where you want the bar set for Unicorn characters?

Phoenix Core Stronghold always seems a little out of place for the clan. Glory was kind of their thing, but, it didn't feel Phoenix-y to me. Others that are more loyal probably have a better grasp on it, but, I never could buy into the Glory matters theme for them. This is one of the reasons why they were the last clan I got around to playing and still play the least. All the others, even the Unicorn, feel more thematically accurate to me. I really like the new Phoenix stronghold that is coming though and that really makes me want to play them more. So I guess that would be a success for FFG since even though I'm not a dedicated Phoenix player, they got me seriously considering dropping some coin on the Phoenix Clan pack. I just wish they would clarify if these Clan packs are evergreen or not.

I don't see how very limited and telegraphed movement is better than giving characters +2/+2 or +2 glory. One of the weaknesses of Unicorn is that they need to expand too many ressources to win conflicts/break provinces and movement does nothing to change that. Giving free combat buffs is simply better.

I personally think that the glory theme makes sense for Phoenix. They can bend the elements to their will, speak with Kami, have huge librarys and host events where they display their powers. It is logical that they are very renowned throughout Rokugan.

7 hours ago, K.Rc. said:

Agreed, the Unicorn problem should have been caught during the beta - but the product is now out, so what do you do?

15 Stronghold cards is not going to fix anything - They need a complete rework - You can't redo the core set now.

From the designer interview - My guess is given the other costs, they will leave Unicorn cards to be unplayable and accept the loss of the Unicorn player base rather than rework Unicorn.

I honestly think that you misinterpreted the designer interview. When the sentence "If you only knew" was said, I got the feeling that we will see pretty unfair Unicorn cards.

30 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

What designer interview gives you the impression design is going to abandon anything at this point in the game?

All Unicorn needs is a couple characters with decent printed abilities and they are right back in the mix......and then a couple conflict cards that can impact a conflict in a meaningful way without requiring a bunch of hoops to jump through......and......

But seriously where did the designers say they quit on my little pONIs

I don't think that couple characters with decent printed abilities and impactful conflict cards will do the trick. Unicorn is at that point too far behind. They probably need powerhouses like Niten Master that can generate a lot of value and ways to protect their cards against hardcontrol decks. Otherwise they will get bullied by either midrange or control decks.

17 hours ago, K.Rc. said:

Interesting idea, but unless you have a berserker that is < 3M, why would you sac him? - maybe a stronghold that allows the berserker to do something to himself perhaps? - eg) Akodo Toshiro ( While this character is attacking – it gets +5M until the end of the conflict. Provinces cannot be broken during this conflict. At the end of the conflict, if you do not control a Commander character, discard this character.) - of course you can always tune the numbers and the other parameters.

the idea is you could sacrifice the berserker bowed, after he has participated in a conflict.

About the Uni I was only joking due they have too many restrictions on cards they cards to work right now.

6 hours ago, Ignithas said:

I don't think that couple characters with decent printed abilities and impactful conflict cards will do the trick. Unicorn is at that point too far behind. They probably need powerhouses like Niten Master that can generate a lot of value and ways to protect their cards against hardcontrol decks. Otherwise they will get bullied by either midrange or control decks.

I think it can bring uni to tier one if they are really good cards, other clans concentrate they forces in few central characters and a couple of good conflict cards, and maybe 50% or more of all decks look the same right now with the limited card pool we have.

Some couple of cards that could help uni a lot:

1 - Some cards related to honor cause they have a good number of 2+ glory chars. Right now it is more a weakness then a strenght, but if we got some honoring techs this could be a big modifier, with I am ready, Giver of gifts, satoshi + gaijin, and a crab splash for reprieve maybe we have a interesting deck, even more if uni receives their "2 conflicts a turn" char like dragon and phoenix.

2 - Cards that synergizes with the stronghold, like a 1 cost event that gives +3M to up to 2 characters that have moved into a conflict that turn. A card like this would work with a lot of unicorn cards: tatsuo, outrider, border rider, favored mount, moto juro, captive audience, I am ready, and even favorable ground).

3 - A really good 3 cost, 4 cost and 5 cost character. Without conditions, just some good abilities or skills.