Hi, I wanted to throw around some thoughts without derailing the other thread. Thanks to Lady Absol and others, we've had quite a bit of debate about the new Universal specs, because I don't allow spending XP on non-class specs. Therefore a few characters who are waiting for their books or have already bought the stuff they want have unspent XP which they were hoping to put towards some of the new ones.

Now, I imagine it's a Disney thing (that they really want FFG to push their new canon stuff) but the design process behind the new book seems very different from what's come before. A deluge of 'canon' stats when previously they've been very coy about these? Really specific spec restrictions where previously they've been vague and open to everybody? I dunno; it just feels odd to me. Whether it's a Darth Mickey-induced one-off phenomenon or a new design focus before we all get officially folded into 'Genysis', I have no idea.

But I've been speaking to players (from my sickbed!) and generally thrashing out how we want to treat these. And wondered if other people intended to restrict these new specs as per the book or just let anyone who wants them take them as was the case in the past.

I actually think that D&D3-style 'Prestige Classes' can benefit any game if done properly. Having in-universe specs tied to races, or organisations, can actually give the whole game some flavour. In our games, the Jedi are feared for a reason.

But I'm already very restrictive on the whole non-career spec thing, so given that it likely behoves me to be as open as possible with the Universal specs, if only so PCs have something to spend XP on

What follows is a Marcyverse take on things, but I'd be interested in what other people were doing if you care to comment.

With Phee's generous summation of the specs on the other thread, and general player moaning while I'm drugged up to the eyeballs with antibiotics, I've pretty much decided that anything goes , providing there's a reasonable in-game explanation. So let's take them one by one.

Force Adherent : This is obviously based on Chirrut in Rogue One, but our campaign has lots of Traditions and pretty much all of them would have people like this. I think it's a take on a monk-like character, one who follows a spiritual tradition, as opposed to the Bounty Hunter's MMA fighter spec. For a Sensitive, it allows a Shaolin style character, possibly someone like Rey in the new movies. For a non-Sensitive, it represents the followers and elite support staff that any Tradition will have. It models a Bruce Lee type, or Tony Jaa's character from 'Ong Bak', someone to whom a spiritual element is as important as kicking somebody in the face. I actually like the concept that muggles can use the Force in subtle ways; it's supposed to touch everyone, right, not just people who can throw lightning or spaceships around? In short, I think pretty much any PC wouldn't find it too hard to pick this one up from any Tradition, of which there are many. We'll keep the title because it's vague and cool: Force Adherent: 'You mix martial and spiritual traditions, which you learned studying a Force Tradition, whether you are Sensitive or not'.

Imperial Army Cadet : This one feels oddly restrictive. Even in the game, wouldn't the Republic have had elite colleges and piloting schools? Anyway, the concept of an elite anything involved with the Imperium is an oxymoron for our campaign. The Empire's entire shtick is that they get all their stuff from IKEA - it might look shiny but it will fall to pieces under any pressure. They have loads of cheap ships, endless amounts of cannon-fodder, and they will throw all that at you in numberless waves until someone wins. The TIE perfectly exemplifies their military doctrine - it's a flying coffin and you're not intended to survive; as long as you do some damage, you did your job.

Anyway, in-game, after twenty years of fighting the Galactic Civil War, I'd assume most factions have some kind of elite pilot schools. The Jedi have plenty of non-Sensitive support and the Systems Alliance have people like Wedge or Poe Dameron plus all the elite pilots from species like Duros, Mon Cal and Sullustans. Further, guys like Han Solo were supposedly Republican Cadets at some point. It seems very fitting that an Independent PC could learn this stuff from someone like that - Han's already a retired den-father to some of the PCs and I can see him saying: 'All right, you're ready for me to teach you some of the tricks I learned at the Academy when I was young - which was before any of you were born' . So, let's simplify this one: Cadet: You attended an elite piloting school or learned from someone who did'.

Padawan Survivor : Well, this one seems very Jedi-specific, all those 'secrets' skills don't really apply to one of the smaller Traditions. Now, we have a full Jedi faction, so there's no need for them to be 'survivors' - Jedi training isn't gentle, but they're not trying to kill their initiates, either. Being a Jedi or Sith comes with baggage, in-game - but there are plenty of important people who are ex-Jedi (Ben, Yoda) or who were trained by one (Lars). One of the PCs is an ex-Jedi teacher, and a few PCs are still on more or less good terms with the Order; any of these would know this stuff and could teach it. Further, sometimes Jedi or Sith go rogue and train their own students far from the Order, and providing they don't actively oppose the Jedi, most of them get left to their own devices. There's actually enough NPCs of note that finding a trainer isn't actually that difficult. PCs who were Jedi or taught by Ben would already qualify. While the Lightsaber stuff is good, a glowstick is as dangerous a weapon to carry in the MarcyVerse as it is in canon - in Jedi territory, it's the mark of an apostate (unless you actually ARE a Jedi or Sith, and that comes with baggage), and everywhere else it's the mark of an enemy. So let's call it thusly: Padawan Initiate: You were brought up as a Jedi or Sith, or you learned about the Force from someone who was. The Jedi clearly don't like people learning their secrets, so that's something the character will have to face in the game.

Pirate : Looking at this one, I'm tempted to have it as a general scum-and-villainy spec. There are loads of people who would have these skills, some PCs are already a lot like this (Kandy and Reya). Almost any Edge character will have some dealings with the Shadow Collective in all its various guises - even for an Independent, it's the price of doing business. Some PCs are already connected to Black Sun or KanjiKlub. Not all the Talents will suit everyone (not every person who smuggles contraband knows about boarding and piracy) but I wouldn't have a problem with any Edge character picking this one up to round out their skillset. So - Pirate: You're a tough, wily veteran of the Fringe, whether you're a part of a space-going criminal organisation or just familiar with them.

Retired Clone Trooper : This, I think, will be one some people will want to respec. Honestly, restricting PCs by gender and species seems outside the spirit of the game to me. Also, 'Retired Clone Troopers' aren't a MarcyVerse thing. Even if the Jedi don't actively abuse their troops, they're still disposable assets; there's no retirement plan, you just get patched up and sent back out to fight. When you get old and slow, you'll just get killed in battle eventually, which is something they all aspire to do, as the ultimate expression of their service. And the Imperium does cynically abuse their own clones, to the point they push production beyond safe limits and don't understand the stolen Kaminoan technology (our Jedi clones look like blandly-handsome Aryan Ubermensch , while Stormtroopers are mutated and misshapen with too many fingers and melted features - they look horrible underneath the armour, which exists as much so their commanders don't have to look at them as for intimidating their foes).

The only 'retired clones' that exist, then, occurred when some Jedi absconded with their favourite troops, possibly reversing the clone's lobotomies in the process. Some do live quiet lives on the fringe with their companions, but they obviously tend to keep their heads down and aren't a likely source for a PC trainer.

So, this one kind of needs a total respec for us. The Galactic Civil War has raged inconclusively for over twenty years now, so there must be significant numbers of veteran badasses, whether still in active service or burned-out and propping up a bar somewhere. This one sits properly as the big brother to 'Recruit' then - if 'Recruit' is 'you survived boot camp where they taught you to kill stormtroopers with a spork' , then this spec is 'survived three tours of duty and then went back for more (and you've killed more stormtroopers with sporks than most people have had hot dinners)'. This spec then suits PCs who have long service records (Karae), are in-universe badasses (Jaleela) or are otherwise experienced vets who have distinguished themselves in military conflict. I think its' even possible to learn this one from some former badass in a bar; there must be mercs who were former vets willing to pass on their tricks for beer money. So, we then have: Veteran: You are an experienced combatant with a long and distinguished career in the Galactic Civil War, or you learned how to fight from someone who was.

Ship Captain: Honestly, this is what I hoped the Universals would look like. It's specific but it's vague and not restricted by height, hair colour or sexual preference. It's basically 'Commodore' for people who aren't Commanders, or adds new stuff for those who are. A lot of people, PCs and otherwise, command a vessel of some sort or are used to leading crew. From smugglers, career pilots to lone bounty-killers, I honestly can't see any reason why someone who wanted this one couldn't pick it up easily.

Anyway, that's my thoughts, long and rambling, as the warm brandy and Doxycycline cocktail kicks in! Your thoughts and suggestions are invited. If your new Snow Wookiee PC wants to start as a Retired Clone Trooper, are you gonna let him?

Marcy

Well, I'm sure you already knew I'd say this, but I agree 100% with how you tweaked these specs, both from a MarcyVerse-specific lore perspective, and from a general FFG Star Wars games in the future perspective.

I will be using these tweaks in all of my games going forward! Yay! It's too bad none of these really fit Kemna (Force Adherent is the closest, but it's still fairly 'meh' for her), but she's already got her plate full with three specs, at least two more in the future, and a host of Force powers and a smattering of skills she needs to buy. She probably doesn't need any more specs at the moment .*

EDIT: Also, feel better-er soon! We all need our wonderful Marcy back!

* Although... if she does eventually meet Yoda, the Padawan Initiate is not horrible... another Nobody's Fool, more Smooth Talker, and that extra rank of Uncanny Reactions is sweet! Combine all that with Constant Vigilance? We'd just need to be able to skip the lightsaber talents (and the Sleight of Mind, she's never taking a rank in that talent)... hmm! It's doable. Not necessarily a goal , but a possibility .

Yeah, I mostly agree. It's best in my opinion to stick with the community wisdom that spec names are suggestions rather than rules. The Retired Clone Trooper is an odd duck in that it's restricted to human males, and I am certainly going to ignore that point in my own games. I mean, this spec could just as easily describe a decommissioned CIS battle droid, so why the weird limitations? No thanks, FFG. No thanks.

For me as a player, half the fun of character creation is figuring out how to create fun characters through compelling cross-specializations. I'm sure you have reasons for forbidding out-of-career specs at your table, Marcy, but I'd never dream of such a thing. I feel the same way about these new universal specs. Bring on the Gigoran Retired Clone Troopers, I say!

So I apparently have missed something. Source?

To get into your question, I have one of my own. How would you handle someone who wanted to do Kyle Katarn? Someone who obviously starts in a non-jedi spec and wants to end up a jedi. Or starts out a scoundrel and wants to end up an admiral?

32 minutes ago, korjik said:

To get into your question, I have one of my own. How would you handle someone who wanted to do Kyle Katarn? Someone who obviously starts in a non-jedi spec and wants to end up a jedi. Or starts out a scoundrel and wants to end up an admiral?

Scoundrel = Admiral, that's just in-game language. Someone wanting a Han Solo type would start as a Smuggler, with Scoundrel and Pilot. Later take Cadet and Ship Captain, get promoted to 'Admiral' by one of the various factions. Han didn't really strike me as having leadership type talents - he's just a smuggler who got promoted to General because he was sleeping with the boss

Kyle Katarn doesn't translate too well to the MarcyVerse - not all concepts do, nor are they intended to. I guess he'd be a Bounty Hunter who'd take Padawan Initiative, maybe sign up with the AIS and take Emergent. That gives him decent Force powers and fighting skills. We have a Bounty Hunter turned Force adept in our game, and she's a colossal badass, both in-game and in-universe.

We intended to have a clear demarcation that Force classes are the way to go if you want Force powers. But we have a whole bunch of PCs with Exile or Emergent who are nonetheless potent characters.

Also, in-universe, the Jedi rarely take members later in life. Most Force powers manifest in puberty and most Jedi are born into it. A young Adept picked up early as an apostate would probably get trained, but Kyle's already a guy in his thirties with a reputation. The Jedi simply don't take on people like that. The AIS do take on people like that as Emergents, but then you're dead by forty, burned out by all that power coursing through your body without the proper training of a Force career.

Me, I'd keep Kyle Katarn as a straight bounty hunter. He was already badass. Like Leia, they only made him a 'Jedi' because they were pushing him hard at the time and 'Jedi' is shorthand for 'important person'. His character concept worked fine in Dark Forces without having to give him space magic.

2 hours ago, Absol197 said:

I will be using these tweaks in all of my games going forward! Yay! It's too bad none of these really fit Kemna (Force Adherent is the closest, but it's still fairly 'meh' for her), but she's already got her plate full with three specs, at least two more in the future, and a host of Force powers and a smattering of skills she needs to buy. She probably doesn't need any more specs at the moment .

Oh yes, Force careers already have a ton of stuff to buy anyway, between specs, Force powers and Signature abilities.

The characters who mostly benefit from the Universals are the mundanes or Force Adept types who've already maxed out most of what they want. Also, some players would sell their vital organs to get that third Force Dice

I'm happy with our restrictions, but a bunch of Universals really should breathe some new life into old characters, some of whom have been playing since EoE was released. It will be fun for Cynn to take Cadet or Ship's Captain, or for Jo to start taking her powers seriously for a change! Initiate and Adherent don't add much to a Force career really (they already have loads of goodies), but an Exile really does gain an extra dimension from these new specs.

1 hour ago, Maelora said:

Oh yes, Force careers already have a ton of stuff to buy anyway, between specs, Force powers and Signature abilities.

The characters who mostly benefit from the Universals are the mundanes or Force Adept types who've already maxed out most of what they want. Also, some players would sell their vital organs to get that third Force Dice

I'm happy with our restrictions, but a bunch of Universals really should breathe some new life into old characters, some of whom have been playing since EoE was released. It will be fun for Cynn to take Cadet or Ship's Captain, or for Jo to start taking her powers seriously for a change! Initiate and Adherent don't add much to a Force career really (they already have loads of goodies), but an Exile really does gain an extra dimension from these new specs.

I definitely agree . And breathing some new life into old characters is always a good thing; I can't wait to read how these options change the path that people like Jo and Cynn (and possibly Racine and others!) take. The MarcyVerse stories have always been great, and now we can look forward to something new and different and just as awesome!

Maybe we can breathe some life into new characters sometime soon, too?

1 minute ago, Absol197 said:

Maybe we can breathe some life into new characters sometime soon, too?

The chemicals are working and the weekend actually promises to be good!

5 minutes ago, Maelora said:

The chemicals are working and the weekend actually promises to be good!

Yay! (Hugs Marcy)

I do want you feeling better, so that's most important, but I just also don't want to be forgotten . If her journey never starts, she can never get to the end of it...

EDIT: (Sorry, off-topic tangent, I'll stop now.)

I'm on board 100% that this book feels largely against the earlier spirit of the game. I also plan to open up the specs to anyone within reason:

Force Adherent: Same. Open to anyone who is interested in creating a monk-like or religious character, force-sensitive or not.

Academy Pilot: I'd allow this for anyone who had any formal flight-school training. I used to play a character who attended the Baobab Merchant Marine Academy (Droids cartoon throwback) and this would have been perfect for him. The Grand Army of the Republic, Rebel Alliance, and even local navies must have some sort of flight schools.

Padawan Survivor: I'd basically let anyone who had training from a Jedi survivor take this, not just the survivors themselves. A lot of the talents are a little too specific to be useful to non-Jedi force users, though.

Pirate: Same - generic galactic underworld/outlaw spec (This is almost a better smuggler/scoundrel speck than anything in that career). Really only 1-2 talents seem to be directly linked to piracy.

Retired Clone Trooper: Same. Any veteran could take this (I have a PC now who probably will end up loving this). I could see this being cool in the Sequel Era as well for Galactic Civil War vets.

Ships Captain: This is already pretty general (and seems like a Kirk-spec, to me). I could see any career buying into this if they ended up in a command role.

2 hours ago, Maelora said:

Scoundrel = Admiral, that's just in-game language. Someone wanting a Han Solo type would start as a Smuggler, with Scoundrel and Pilot. Later take Cadet and Ship Captain, get promoted to 'Admiral' by one of the various factions. Han didn't really strike me as having leadership type talents - he's just a smuggler who got promoted to General because he was sleeping with the boss

Kyle Katarn doesn't translate too well to the MarcyVerse - not all concepts do, nor are they intended to. I guess he'd be a Bounty Hunter who'd take Padawan Initiative, maybe sign up with the AIS and take Emergent. That gives him decent Force powers and fighting skills. We have a Bounty Hunter turned Force adept in our game, and she's a colossal badass, both in-game and in-universe.

We intended to have a clear demarcation that Force classes are the way to go if you want Force powers. But we have a whole bunch of PCs with Exile or Emergent who are nonetheless potent characters.

Also, in-universe, the Jedi rarely take members later in life. Most Force powers manifest in puberty and most Jedi are born into it. A young Adept picked up early as an apostate would probably get trained, but Kyle's already a guy in his thirties with a reputation. The Jedi simply don't take on people like that. The AIS do take on people like that as Emergents, but then you're dead by forty, burned out by all that power coursing through your body without the proper training of a Force career.

Me, I'd keep Kyle Katarn as a straight bounty hunter. He was already badass. Like Leia, they only made him a 'Jedi' because they were pushing him hard at the time and 'Jedi' is shorthand for 'important person'. His character concept worked fine in Dark Forces without having to give him space magic.

I do more mean the mechanical side of things than the in-game titling. Someone who wants to start with one career and wants to end up in another. Say starting as a soldier and then becoming a scholar. Does he miss out of the talents of the scholar just because he started out as a soldier?

It does sound to me that you could use quite a few universal trees to take that sort of thing into account. Like you mentioned, trees for organizations and factions to take into account their skill/talent sets. My personal view is that classes should be just removed from the game entirely, they dont do anything but restrict anyway. Having trees granted thru play would be a better way to do it than trees just because I have XP.

23 minutes ago, korjik said:

It does sound to me that you could use quite a few universal trees to take that sort of thing into account. Like you mentioned, trees for organizations and factions to take into account their skill/talent sets. My personal view is that classes should be just removed from the game entirely, they dont do anything but restrict anyway. Having trees granted thru play would be a better way to do it than trees just because I have XP.

Yep, that's why six Universals are a huge deal for us. And yeah, Genysis does away with the entire class and career system.

But I've never allowed multi-classing in any game I've run, and my players are used to it now. It actually makes them try classes they wouldn't have if they could just pick the best of everything. And they start out with quite a bit of XP - the MarcyVerse PCs are meant to be the big dayum heroes of the setting, your Aragorns or Skywalkers.

When I started running this game, I pretty quickly decoupled the name of a specialization from what it provides in terms of talents and skills. I tend not to restrict what trees are available to my players at all as long as they can articulate why they believe it fits their character.

I'd never limit the new Clone Trooper tree to human males. Any military sort could potentially benefit from it.

So, since we're mostly of a mind that we are going to remove the human male restriction from the Retired Clone Trooper Veteran, what is people's opinions on the career skills it offers?

Now, even if we were sticking to the restriction as is, cementing the character's species, sex, and background, just using canon there's a lot of creative space still left to make interesting characters: did you participate in Order 66, or did you not? If you did, how do you feel about that? What did you do after the war? Did you even work under a Jedi, or were you with a Republic Commander? What was the fate of your squad?

Plenty of room for a character to stretch out and explore interesting stories. But being a clone does come with it some implied restrictions, most importantly that you probably aren't a Force user. And even with all that creative space, the Star Wars galaxy is so vast that that space gets dwarfed by all of the non-clone possibilities.

So the question: is the removal of the restriction enough to cut down the number of bonus career skills? If so, which ones would you get rid of?

Personally, I think the answer is no. Most people who are taking the spec are going to have a fair number of those skills already, and career skills are something that are only tangentially beneficial in the immediate sense. Sure, over the course of the game two extra career skills could save you 50 xp, but when you could probably find another specialization you want for 30-40 xp that gives you those skills, possibly one or two more, and access to an entire other tree of goodies...it's not quite as potent.

If I had to shave two skills off, I'd probably pick...hmm, the two Ranged skills. The spec is more about the art of war, rather than fighting. And the combat skills are the most likely to be picked up by the character's career specializations.

What do y'all think?

EDIT: Hey! On a random tangent, while typing this post I figured out how to prevent the forum software from adding extra space between paragraphs here (such as if, say, you're trying to show a list), at least if you're on a keyboard. Shift+Enter gets you a single-spaced return. Happy posting !

I definitely agree, if a player can justify a spec through a cool explanation or reskin then I say go for it.

With the rename of RCT to Veteran I would probably allow a player to choose 4 of the six skills as career skills to represent their specialist training or the focus of the particular organisation they come from.

10 hours ago, Maelora said:

I'd be interested in what other people were doing if you care to comment.

Personally I see nothing wrong with the retired clone veteran restriction from a thematic approach. It's supposed to be for players that want to play a Jango Fett clone and as the canon has no actual clones besides the Jango Fett clones AFAIK, then the restriction makes sense.

From a gameplay standpoint, the general consensus even from the developers is "do what works best for your table". So houserule away, it's no big deal.

In the past I have mostly ignored the concepts behind the universal specs and suggested them to players. The original 3 universal specs are supposed to be thematically appropriate for the character, as evidenced by the descriptions of them in their respective Core Rulebooks. However, I generally handled it like this:

If you're going to become Force Sensitive later in the game, I strongly suggest Exile over Emergent, regardless of the fact that the theme of Emergent fits better. This is because I view Emergent as a mechanically worse spec and everyone that wants to get Force Sensitivity later on tends to be the xp-junkies that crave it like death sticks. Exile gets them to do what they like faster, which is become a Jedi-wannabe. Emergent is structured in a mechanically inferior way for what they want. To this day I've never had a player pick Emergent because they agreed that they wanted to do flips and kill stuff with laser swords quicker than what Emergent gets them.

I suggest Recruit almost never but I had one player that took it. The player was a beast of a character even without it and that just enhanced their murderizing ways.

All said, I'd probably do the same as I have in the past and disregard the suggestive flavor text and/or restrictions and just encourage specs based on how useful they are for that character or how well they pair with the character's current setup. I do like the idea of players starting the game out with a free universal spec for extra flavor, that seems fun.

While the specs themselves feel to have been written with this specific era in mind (and I'd wager that's less due to Disney influence* and more an editorial direction on FFG's part given this an era-specific sourcebook), I'd say that apart from the Retired Clone Trooper (which was written to be fairly specific) there's nothing stopping you from using these in other eras with minimal changes to the background fluff. And if we get future era-specific sourcebooks (TFA era is probably a safe bet once Episode 9 comes out), I suspect any universal specs introduced there will also be written with that specific era in mind.

Now, for the six new universal specs in question...

Force Adherent, while as you say is based heavily upon Chirrit of Rogue One fame also works as a general purpose warrior monk, one that came to whatever religious order they're affiliated with from most any walk of life without necessarily having been devoted to close-quarters martial combat to the extent that Martial Artist or Marauder were.

Imperial Academy Cadet is again an easy re-fluff, just swapping out Imperial for Republic to fit the era or setting that you're playing in. At least in the early days of the EU/Legends, before the prequels were a thing, the Imperial Academy had itself existed long before the Empire as a higher institution of learning during the days of the Republic, so for campaigns set during the Clone Wars or KOTOR or even TFA eras, you can swap Republic in for Imperial and call it a day.

Padawan Survivor gets a bit trickier, but not that much. If you're character was somebody that during their formative years (childhood to early teens) that had been training in the Force as part the Jedi Order, but had to leave for some reason, such as the Order being wiped out (which seems to be a recurring thing in Star Wars), such as what happened prior to the events of KOTOR2 as well as with Luke's training temple in the TFA era or even the Ossus massacre in the Legacy Era comics, then I'd say this spec is very much applicable. But, it could also apply to characters who for other reasons left the Jedi Order during those formative years and decided to put their Force training on the back burner to go on and become something else (i.e. took a starting career and specialization that's not from Force and Destiny). I could very much see a Kanan-type PC being built for a campaign that takes place during the Clone Wars or TFA era or KOTOR era as either a Hired Gun or a Smuggler and then adding Padawan Survivor with the explanation that rather than having survived the destruction of the Jedi, they instead chose to leave the Order and make their own way in the galaxy.

Pirate is fine as is, and makes for a nice underworld type that's less reliant on charm as the Scoundrel but not quite as thuggish as the Enforcer. Heck, apart from the Know the Ropes and Prepare to be Boarded talents this spec could very much work for an aspiring crime lord, and even Know the Ropes can be handy to get out of sticky situations the PC might inadvertently find themselves in.

Retired Clone Trooper is a bit thornier, more so than Padawan Survivor, simply that it was designed with the inherent restriction of species and gender to counter that it offers six bonus career skills rather than the usual four. I'd say that if you're willing to drop two of those career skills (let's say Resilience and Vigilance), then you could very easily relabel it as "Combat Veteran" or something similar, and have it reflect someone that's seen a whole lot of battlefield action in their past and learned a variety of helpful "tricks" to keep themselves and their brethren-in-arms alive during whatever major war it was they fought in, be it the Jedi Civil War, the Clone Wars, or even the Galactic Civil War. Or, if running an AltU campaign such as the Marcyverse, you can keep the six bonus career skills and simply change the species and/or gender requirement; perhaps some upstart faction decided to wage war using cloned armies that were based off a particularly skilled and fearsome female Zabrak commando as the clones' template.

For me, Ship Captain is much less for the Han Solos (Pilot and even Hotshot already cover that more than adequately) but indeed more for the Hera Syndullas and Commander Satos, in that the character not only excels at flying a ship, but also at leading a crew. Han Solo was never really that much of a leader in Legends, while Hera is pretty much the heart of the Ghost's crew, and so the spec fits any character that commands a ship's crew that's comprised of more than just your loyal Wookiee traveling companion. Heck, you could make a case for Hondo as of the Clone Wars cartoon being a Ship Captain.

So generally speaking, while the universal specs might not be quite as generic in theme as the majority of the specializations (again, due in large part to appearing in a sourcebook that's intentionally written to be tied to a specific time frame in the setting), they're still general enough to be used in other eras, though some need a tad more tweaking than others.

*Okay, personal pet peeve/rant, but I am sick and bloody effing tired of people casting blame on Disney for anything regarding Star Wars they don't like, the movies especially but just recent Star Wars media in general. Believe it or not, Disney as a company doesn't involve itself in the day-to-day operations and doings of Lucasfilm, and apart from the approvals process (which is often one the last steps in writing RPG materials for a licensed property) they don't really get involved in what FFG does with Star Wars, and especially not in the nitty-gritty details. And even with approvals, it's Lucasfilm that does so, again with Disney not having direct involvement or input in such things. Kathleen Kennedy is pretty much trusted to run Lucasfilm by the corporate heads at Disney, because she's proven to be competent with the Star Wars media produced under her tenure all being profitable, which at the end of the day is all the major corporate big-wigs care about; she may not have the degree of leeway that Kevin Feige has over at Marvel Studios, but then Kevin's got a much longer success record, as the closest thing to a "box office bomb" that Marvel Studios has produced was the Incredible Hulk film with Edward Norton, and even that did respectable business (263.4 million on a 150 million dollar budget), and if the new Star Wars films continue to be fiscally successful (which so far, they have) then it probably won't be long before Kathleen is given similar free reign. I'm sure she and Kevin both have meetings with the Disney higher-ups about the general doings of their respective branches of the overall Disney conglomerate, but I doubt those meetings are anything more than a general updates and high-level reviews of major projects (namely the movies).

11 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Retired Clone Trooper is a bit thornier, more so than Padawan Survivor, simply that it was designed with the inherent restriction of species and gender to counter that it offers six bonus career skills rather than the usual four.

Does a restriction on being human and male somehow mechanically disadvantage a character in some way that needs to be offset by two extra career skills? I think not, and feel that it would have been far better had they stuck with four career skills and used one of the talents that adds a pair of career skills in place of something.

4 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

Does a restriction on being human and male somehow mechanically disadvantage a character in some way that needs to be offset by two extra career skills? I think not, and feel that it would have been far better had they stuck with four career skills and used one of the talents that adds a pair of career skills in place of something.

Can depend on the group. RCT does break with the standard process of "four bonus career skills per spec" (Force user universal specs simply trade the career skills for Force Rating 1).

Plus there's the fact that as a universal spec it hands out four very useful combat-related skills: Discipline (good for strain recovery and fear checks, Vigilance (great for initiative), and both Ranged combat skills, with Resilience and Knowledge (Warfare) being an extra bit of icing on the cake. If you want to make your PC into a combat pro, this specialization is an excellent one-stop shop as you don't have to "waste" XP on buying talents for combat skills you might already heave (a complaint hurled at Recruit) just to progess into the spec.

So while FFG's ideas of game balance may not match up with yours, you weren't the one writing this book, nor are you and I the only folks that are going to be potentially using this specialization in their games. It's easy for a GM to suss out what is and isn't balanced for their specific group, but a lot harder for them to suss out what is and isn't balanced for hundreds of other gaming groups they've never even heard of much less interacted with. Should Marcy be the final arbiter of what's considered "fair and balanced" for your players? Should 2P51, or Daeglan, or GM Dave of the Order 66 podcast?

And yet, that's exactly what FFG's design team has to do with each supplement and each new bit of crunch that gets introduced, is try and suss out what's "balanced" and what costs or restrictions need to be put in place for when some new bit of crunch, such as a universal specialization, breaks the preexisting mold. Case in point, Force and Destiny careers were "balanced" with the notion that getting Force Rating 1 as a starting trait meant giving up two career skills (having six instead of the standard eight that EotE and AoR careers have) and a starting skill rank (only three skill ranks instead of the default four of EotE and AoR). RCT again "breaks the mold" by offering up not only six bonus career skills rather than four, but four of those are some of the most useful skills in the game; not even the Hired Gun, Soldier, or Bounty Hunter careers have all four of Discipline, Ranged (Heavy), Ranged (Light), and Vigilance right out of the gate, but this spec does and you can add them all to your list of career skills for a paltry 20XP, or about one session's worth of XP (unless your GM is extra stingy with XP awards).

It probably won't train-wreck someone's game to simply drop the "human male" requirement from the RCT and just make it "Aged War Veteran" or something similar, but that lack of restriction does make the universal spec a lot more tempting for folks that want to pad out their combat prowess; I could see a BH/Martial Artist grabbing this for the two ranks of Combat Veteran and and the Persistent Targeting talents as well as the Comrades in Arms combo; +1 defense for the entire encounter and chance for +1 soak is a pretty sweet option to have. Which may have also played a part in added the "must be specific species and gender" caveats to the spec for the writers.

If it sticks that much in you craw, perhaps if the Order 66 guys do a show discussing Dawn of Rebellion and solicit listener questions, it's something you can ask and possibly get answered. It may not be an answer you like, but it might shed some light into why they made the decision they did.

I’d consider that part of the balance is that whilst you have the skills, you are also going to be instantly recognisable as a clone to anyone who knows. Which is human male of a particular appearance in canon, but could be something else in another game. Never that keen on balancing role play vs mechanics, but ffg is far from the worst offender in that.

2 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

*Okay, personal pet peeve/rant, but I am sick and bloody effing tired of people casting blame on Disney for anything regarding Star Wars they don't like, the movies especially but just recent Star Wars media in general. Believe it or not, Disney as a company doesn't involve itself in the day-to-day operations and doings of Lucasfilm, and apart from the approvals process (which is often one the last steps in writing RPG materials for a licensed property) they don't really get involved in what FFG does with Star Wars, and especially not in the nitty-gritty details. And even with approvals, it's Lucasfilm that does so, again with Disney not having direct involvement or input in such things. Kathleen Kennedy is pretty much trusted to run Lucasfilm by the corporate heads at Disney, because she's proven to be competent with the Star Wars media produced under her tenure all being profitable, which at the end of the day is all the major corporate big-wigs care about; she may not have the degree of leeway that Kevin Feige has over at Marvel Studios, but then Kevin's got a much longer success record, as the closest thing to a "box office bomb" that Marvel Studios has produced was the Incredible Hulk film with Edward Norton, and even that did respectable business (263.4 million on a 150 million dollar budget), and if the new Star Wars films continue to be fiscally successful (which so far, they have) then it probably won't be long before Kathleen is given similar free reign. I'm sure she and Kevin both have meetings with the Disney higher-ups about the general doings of their respective branches of the overall Disney conglomerate, but I doubt those meetings are anything more than a general updates and high-level reviews of major projects (namely the movies).

This needed to be said. You don't see this stuff with Marvel despite them having more or less the same relationship with Disney. Kennedy was Lucas' pick to run LFL, not Disney's.

I doubt that the "Title" of a spec has any bearing on the balance of said spec. It's not just career skills: it's also the talents and their accessibility via the tree.

Gunslinger, with only 4 career skills is much better for a Ranged (Light) combat character. Marauder is much better for Brawl. It doesn't mean that RCT is underpowered either.

The names of the specs are meant to evoke the feel of Rebels and Rogue One . Of course it's Retired Clone Trooper: that's Rex. Of course it's Imperial Academy Cadet: that's Wedge.

Renaming them "War Veteran" and "Academy Cadet" is perfectly fine and won't change the balance.

Case in point: I've always felt that the Smuggler career should have been called "Scoundrel", and the Scoundrel spec should have been called "Smuggler". Especially after Fly Casual came out. Does it affect how I play my Smuggler Charmer/Gunslinger who doesn't smuggle anything and is in actuality a "Bounty Hunter"? No.

And playing a Human isn't mechanically inferior. With +10 XP from Duty or Obligation, you can have B3 A3 I3 C2 W3 P2 and leverage every single career skill granted by RCT.

Just my two credits' worth.

Slightly off-topic, but I think that RCT would pair well with Technician Mechanic to represent a Veteran that had served primarily in vehicle maintenance.

4 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Padawan Survivor gets a bit trickier, but not that much. If you're character was somebody that during their formative years (childhood to early teens) that had been training in the Force as part the Jedi Order, but had to leave for some reason, such as the Order being wiped out (which seems to be a recurring thing in Star Wars), such as what happened prior to the events of KOTOR2 as well as with Luke's training temple in the TFA era or even the Ossus massacre in the Legacy Era comics, then I'd say this spec is very much applicable. But, it could also apply to characters who for other reasons left the Jedi Order during those formative years and decided to put their Force training on the back burner to go on and become something else (i.e. took a starting career and specialization that's not from Force and Destiny).

I'm inclined to use Padawan Survivor as a generic "trained by Jedi" tree. More than a few people have posted Padawan trees on the FaD board, but generally they are overpowered.

This one provides Parry and Reflect, plus a means of adding Lightsaber and Discipline as career skills to any base specialization, but makes you work for them a bit.

I play in an FaD campaign where my Smuggler Pilot/Force Sensitive exile/Sage is Padawan to a Consular Sage/Niman Disciple in the era before the official formation of the Rebellion. This tree seems appropriate to both Padawan and master.

I run a campaign set 30 years after TFA about the rebirth of the Jedi order under Rey and again would find the tree appropriate for any character being trained therein.

One thing I wanted to note: it appears that a lot of people are under the impression that the Imperial Military Academy Cadet is a piloting tree (I definitely thought so), which is fairly understandable: the iconic character representing it is Wedge, after all.

But rereading through the talents, only three of the twenty talents in the tree (Vehicle Combat Training, Defensive Driving, and Full Throttle) have anything to do with piloting. The other major talents ((Improved) Formation Tactics, By the Book, and Targeted Firepower), along with some of the "filler" talents (Tactical Combat Training, Conditioned, Command, Know the Enemy) are all useable both on personal scale and vehicle scale.

I think it's more of an additional (or alternative) "Officer Training" specialization, as opposed to the "Basic Training" of the Recruit, and the "Four Tours of Duty Training" of the Retired Clone Trooper War Veteran. If that makes sense?