19 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

If you can't hit the 0 Agility Ghost , your list is in trouble. One "auto-shield" damage a round isn't going to save such a list.

Except it’s not just a 0 agility Ghost. It’s 0 agility, likely with an evade and sensor jammer. Oh and your ship had its focus stripped by Fenn. And Fenn’s ability doesn’t let you spend that target lock. So you get to roll three dice and accept what you roll unless you’re also carrying Maul/Ezra or Expertise.

13 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

If you can't hit the 0 Agility Ghost , your list is in trouble. One "auto-shield" damage a round isn't going to save such a list.

A perfectly average 3 die attack roll is 1 hit, 1 focus, and 1 blank. Sensor jammer the hit to a focus and I'm so sorry but Fenn says you can't spend either your target lock or your focus so you just missed my 0 agility ship. Seriously, expected damage with a 3 die attack that you can't spend tokens on against a ship with sensor jammer is less than 1. It's only 1.5 if you have the TL but get the focus stripped by hotcop. So that's 2 ships that are basically doing squat against a ship with 16 health assuming you even have it in arc after the PS 11 large base boost...

3 minutes ago, jwilliamson12 said:

Except it’s not just a 0 agility Ghost. It’s 0 agility, likely with an evade and sensor jammer. Oh and your ship had its focus stripped by Fenn. And Fenn’s ability doesn’t let you spend that target lock. So you get to roll three dice and accept what you roll unless you’re also carrying Maul/Ezra or Expertise.

Yes, I understand the list. I've played against it about a dozen times already. But I still contend that if your list can't reliably hit the Ghost , then doing a "shield damage" won't save that match-up. I mean, last I checked, the Ghost has like a zillion Hull.

1 minute ago, Makaze said:

A perfectly average 3 die attack roll is 1 hit, 1 focus, and 1 blank. Sensor jammer the hit to a focus and I'm so sorry but Fenn says you can't spend either your target lock or your focus so you just missed my 0 agility ship. Seriously, expected damage with a 3 die attack that you can't spend tokens on against a ship with sensor jammer is less than 1.

Do people still play this game without passive modifications? Why?? They are so ubiquitous and affordable!

2 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

(Mauler Ghost scares me. If I'm not specifically built for it, I will probably lose to it. )

I mean, fair enough, and I agree with this point. But hasn't that always been the case with most Top Meta lists? If you're list isn't built to handle them, odds are it'll lose?

5 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

(2) It suppresses every ship with 5 or few HP and no Autothrusters. (It actually even suppresses ships with Autothrusters, but less so.) That is a lot of ships, and it's a lot of iconic ships.

This is probably the only thing i hate about the list.

I dont find it boring to play against. It takes a huge amount of strategic thinking to manage range and arcs knowing a ps11 boost can **** you.

The problem isn't the ship.

It's what's come out that can fill its slots.

6 hours ago, Estarriol said:

Seriously. Faced a player who’s been playing a month, he net listed a Maulzra.I didn’t stand a chance. This makes me look back at the era of triple Torpedo boats fondly. ****. Nerf this absolute bulls hit npe bollox.

Let me sing you a song- a tale of stress, ion and repo, in a land far away, where fat bases went to die. And aye, it took a thousand cuts, but down they went!

2 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Yes, I understand the list. I've played against it about a dozen times already. But I still contend that if your list can't reliably hit the Ghost , then doing a "shield damage" won't save that match-up. I mean, last I checked, the Ghost has like a zillion Hull.

I thought I would get into the specifics for those who may not have faced it. You’re totally right. If you want to beat you have to have a list that can deal with all that this build throws at you.

4 hours ago, DampfGecko said:

Let me sing you a song- a tale of stress, ion and repo, in a land far away, where fat bases went to die. And aye, it took a thousand cuts, but down they went!

Except, of course, it merrily strips two stress a turn. Repositioning is Garbage against a PS11 large base boost. Ion is a credible threat, but boosting will stop it going off the board, so it merely cuts its straight line movement option to a effective four forward.

Someone bored enough should do the Echo location thing of where the ghost can end up with a boost.

asked and answered,

yeah... thats crazy

8 minutes ago, CMDR Ytterium said:

yeah... thats crazy

Some of that looks like boosting on Red moves, which wouldn't work, but still. It's pretty crazy.

2 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Some of that looks like boosting on Red moves, which wouldn't work, but still. It's pretty crazy.

I mean, it's far less crazy than Dash with EU...

barring Leia or other stuff like that, then you're right, but there can be circumstances like that like an AP-5 coordinate... point being its not impossible

Just now, MasterShake2 said:

I mean, it's far less crazy than Dash with EU...

If Dash with EU is the standard...

1 minute ago, CMDR Ytterium said:

barring Leia or other stuff like that, then you're right, but there can be circumstances like that like an AP-5 coordinate... point being its not impossible

But it's not really happening in any sort of standard Fenn + Ghost list, is all I'm saying.

yeah but all I'm saying is that it can happen

I’m just thinking, back in the days of the triple jump we’d have the players jumping into threads like this and telling us how much skill they took to fly! Lol.

Bear in mind the ghost could also take advanced Sensors if it really wanted...

5x z95s with guidance chips and harpoons and spank that. Pffft. Overrated Ghost is overrated...

14 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

It is oppressive.

It's a tremendous points fortress.

It suppresses iconic ships.

It discounts the benefits of good maneuvering.

It is bad for the best foundational game of X-Wing.

It's not fun to play against.

It's a toxic cocktail.

Jeff, you're genius, just wonderfully wordy.

But if you remove the oppressive Ghost there's only going to be another oppressive list taking over, that's just where the game is now after all the layers and layers of untested designs have piled on top of each other.

Either you roll back 2 years of wave design through FAQing something every five weeks, or at some point you just draw the line and say "yeah, it's oppressive, but it's the least oppressive option we realistically have so we'll stick here".

10 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

I mean, fair enough, and I agree with this point. But hasn't that always been the case with most Top Meta lists? If you're list isn't built to handle them, odds are it'll lose?

its been like this since the powercreep explosion in wave 8, but it shouldnt be. rock paper scissors is a mark of terrible game design. lists will always be weaker or stronger against certain things, but things like alpha strikes and extrrme control shouldnt be in the game. the rule system was built for a simpler game

I’ve never ran Thug Lyfe before. Does that list have enough health and dish out enough punishment to counter the Ghost/Fenn?

Probably not, jwilliamson12. 5 dice primary at R1 with tons of mods followed by 2 damage at the end of combat means the ghost player can take one of your thugs off the table by the end of the first engagement. That leaves him with his two fully modded TLT shots per turn against your 3 for the next turn, until he takes yet another thug off the table. Unlimited maul+ezra+ps11 positioning is going to eat thug life for lunch, unless he does something dumb.

2 arguments that I am a bit tired of hearing (echoing Jeff, I know)

1. "It's beatable" Well sure it is. Doesn't make it good for the game. Whisper was beatable. If you were PS10+, that's not great. If Quad-Jumpmaster is the answer, we are all asking the wrong question.
2. "Nerfing this is pointless because something else will become the new OP thing." Of course. But it will be less OP than this. Every time you sand off the top of the power curve, more lists become viable. Nerfing TLT, for example, doesn't make the game perfect but it could make the game better.

So long as the Ghost/Fenn list is "optimized" to the current favorite, it's a 99pt list minimum. You might have some fun with something like this:

Talonbane Cobra (28)
Veteran Instincts (1)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)
Contraband Cybernetics (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Autothrusters (2)
Guidance Chips (0)
Vaksai (0)

Fenn Rau (28)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Autothrusters (2)

Dengar (33)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Boba Fett (1)

Total: 98

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

It's not good but I'd probably enjoy the game.