Seriously. Faced a player who’s been playing a month, he net listed a Maulzra.I didn’t stand a chance. This makes me look back at the era of triple Torpedo boats fondly. ****. Nerf this absolute bulls hit npe bollox.

I feel you man...

Just now, Estarriol said:

Seriously. Faced a player who’s been playing a month, he net listed a Maulzra.I didn’t stand a chance. This makes me look back at the era of triple Torpedo boats fondly. ****. Nerf this absolute bulls hit npe bollox.

its really not that bad... Its a good list but its very beatable.

besides if you nerf this list you will be back next week complaining about the next list you lost to demanding it be nerfed. They cant nerf everything.

I disagree. The Ghost can be handled by listbuilding and flying, and should not (yet) be nerfed

What were you flying that you were smoked so easily?

It's a strong list for sure and it definitely punishes any jank you put against it, but it's beatable. My main issue is just how high the skill floor is for a list withessentially just one fat turret. I'm not sure what Nerf would make it tougher to fly though...

You really need an ace with Boost and Thrusters to reliably beat it, or Expertise. Now that genius/simulator isn't as much of a thing and miranda cluster drop is more difficult to get away with aces can come back (as we have seen in some regional results)
Inquisitor is a good example of this.

I love Rebels, and I love the look of The Ghost, but it's just boring (for me) to fly and fly against. I haven't been up against that netlist, so I can't speak to its aggravation.

+1 !

Yep, except for TS Genius, the Ghost is the most BS thing to hit Xwing. =) Definitely was under the power level of some other stuff. But most annoying, most stupid, most inane? yep.

Well. Now you had PS11 Coordinate for 22 points. WOW. What bs.

Or another angle: should every combination of ships and upgrades be possible? Of course not, right? Why should a Uwing squad with expose, electronic baffle and seismic torpedoes be as good as a well thought out list?!

But if you agree with that statement then you also agree in principle with the idea that you should adjust dour list if the meta changed.

While I am beginning to believe that something in the list needs to change (my personal pick is the Phantom Turret shot must be from a Turret on the shuttle), i still think there are enough interesting ideas of how to deal with them to explore before employing the nerf hammer.

8 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

What were you flying that you were smoked so easily?

I would guess a tie swarm.

My favorite part about the ghost is that the tie punisher can shred them with clusters and torpedoes.

10 minutes ago, player2910972 said:

My favorite part about the ghost is that the tie punisher can shred them with clusters and torpedoes.

Nerf the Tie Punisher!

Is there a list that could beat Ghost Fenn and include a 50pt Corran/Miranda while still being competitive vs the rest of the meta? Searching for regionals ideas!

You don't need Expertise, specifically, but you really need something with passive mods enough to, at the very least, take Fenn off the table.

Please could people stop responding with "it's not unbeatable." Pretty much nobody is saying it's "unbeatable."

It is oppressive. But, more problematic, it's oppressive in a very specific way that isn't very good for the game.

(1) It's a tremendous points fortress. The Mauler version is typically 73 points locked up in a single ship ... except it's even worse, because if you "half-kill" the Ghost, you don't get 36 points ... you get 27 points.

(2) It suppresses every ship with 5 or few HP and no Autothrusters. (It actually even suppresses ships with Autothrusters, but less so.) That is a lot of ships, and it's a lot of iconic ships.

(3) It discounts the benefits of good maneuvering, because the best maneuvers by arced ships can simply be erased by perfect information boosts at PS 11.

(4) It forces ships to rely on passive modifications, which are, themselves, bad for the best foundational game of X-Wing, which is "Plan, maneuver, take an action, shoot."

(5) It's simply not very fun to play against. Obviously this is subjective, and I have no doubt there's some special snowflake who instinctively has already started typing, "I like to play against it!" But I would be willing to bet that if we polled all active tournament X-Wing players, 90%+ would say, "No, I don't enjoy playing against it., even when I win" Including people who actually play it!

Don't get me wrong, it's a genius list, and it deserved to win a System Open based on that. It does not deserve to keep winning; not with all the negative effects on the game required to beat it.

Like most problem lists, there's not one factor to blame. It's a toxic cocktail. I think if you really want to target just this archetype, then the "end of round" turret shot should have to be performed by a turret on the docked ship. But that ignores so many other problematic aspects of the list ... and all of them are just going to come up again.

33 minutes ago, player2910972 said:

My favorite part about the ghost is that the tie punisher can shred them with clusters and torpedoes.

Yeah, good luck with that, with no active modifications to your rolls.

If TLT did not exist, the meta becomes much more interesting IMO. Back in the day, folks argued that TLT was needed to keep Fat Han under control. I think munitions can do that job just fine now. If Miranda can't shoot twice, she is much more manageable. If the Ghost couldn't shoot 4 times, it's better. Nym isn't good at everything without a TLT. That one card plays a huge role in so much that is wrong and bad right now.

TLT: Small ship only.

32 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

Nerf the Tie Punisher!

AND it can take Autothrusters for auto damage mitigation vs TLT.

OP!!!!!!!

1 hour ago, Estarriol said:

Seriously. Faced a player who’s been playing a month, he net listed a Maulzra.I didn’t stand a chance. This makes me look back at the era of triple Torpedo boats fondly. ****. Nerf this absolute bulls hit npe bollox.

20 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

You don't need Expertise, specifically, but you really need something with passive mods enough to, at the very least, take Fenn off the table.

Please could people stop responding with "it's not unbeatable." Pretty much nobody is saying it's "unbeatable."

It is oppressive. But, more problematic, it's oppressive in a very specific way that isn't very good for the game.

(1) It's a tremendous points fortress. The Mauler version is typically 73 points locked up in a single ship ... except it's even worse, because if you "half-kill" the Ghost, you don't get 36 points ... you get 27 points.

(2) It suppresses every ship with 5 or few HP and no Autothrusters. (It actually even suppresses ships with Autothrusters, but less so.) That is a lot of ships, and it's a lot of iconic ships.

(3) It discounts the benefits of good maneuvering, because the best maneuvers by arced ships can simply be erased by perfect information boosts at PS 11.

(4) It forces ships to rely on passive modifications, which are, themselves, bad for the best foundational game of X-Wing, which is "Plan, maneuver, take an action, shoot."

(5) It's simply not very fun to play against. Obviously this is subjective, and I have no doubt there's some special snowflake who instinctively has already started typing, "I like to play against it!" But I would be willing to bet that if we polled all active tournament X-Wing players, 90%+ would say, "No, I don't enjoy playing against it., even when I win" Including people who actually play it!

Don't get me wrong, it's a genius list, and it deserved to win a System Open based on that. It does not deserve to keep winning; not with all the negative effects on the game required to beat it.

Like most problem lists, there's not one factor to blame. It's a toxic cocktail. I think if you really want to target just this archetype, then the "end of round" turret shot should have to be performed by a turret on the docked ship. But that ignores so many other problematic aspects of the list ... and all of them are just going to come up again.

Word!

Great minds think alike.

1 hour ago, Estarriol said:

Seriously. Faced a player who’s been playing a month, he net listed a Maulzra.I didn’t stand a chance. This makes me look back at the era of triple Torpedo boats fondly. ****. Nerf this absolute bulls hit npe bollox.

Ask for a rematch and use this list....

Colonel Vessery (35) Swarm Leader (3) and TIE/X7 (-2)

Countess Ryad (34) Twin Ion Engine (1) and TIE/X7 (-2)

Delta Squadron (30) and TIE/X7 (-2)

Total - 100

This list just won the Mt. View California regional, going 8-1 and beating a Fenn/Ghost list in the finals.

I say we simply ban all expansions after wave 4. That should fix all of our issues.

Or......just fly your ships and have fun. You win some, you lose some. A couple Friday’s ago my Nym Dash list lost to 4 lowly TIE Bombers. Let’s all stop calling to nerf what we lost to the night before, shall we?

RAC-Inquisitor is a good counter. Especially with new players. It'll split their focus. If they try too hard to land punches on Inquisitor, RAC will tear it to shreds. You can always ISYTDS Blinded Pilot Fenn to prevent the PS11 coordinate.

That all being said, @Jeff Wilder is on the money with his thoughts.

Every list I've put together this week, I've had to think, "will this survive a 4-round Ghost TLT attack?" And the answer is almost always no.