3 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Really? In our CCG league, we tended to play whatever caught our fancy and leave the top-tier decks for tournaments (with a couple exceptions).

Still, the focus on competitive decks is why I've never gotten into online play for this game.

That way leagues are great, but unfortunately when there's good prizes in store leagues like promo cards people generally get more competitive.

But you can manage to give prizes for different goals and not only reward the most victorious players too, some stores do that and it's very cool.

17 hours ago, Darksyde said:

I think I'm just mostly surprised to see scorpion and crab called out for being unbalanced. In my area it is hands down phoenix and dragon that hold the top spots.

Same in our area. Easily.

I've been playing since launch and love the game, but then again I haven't worn myself out on it either.

My FLGS runs a tournament one Monday each month, which I play my competitive Dragon deck. The other Mondays they have casual play, where I try a different clan and splash each time. It keeps the game fresh as each clan has it's own playstyle and feel, and it also keeps my opponents interested as they're not facing the same old deck every time I show up.

I don't play online at all and I really feel that is why my interest is still high for the game. Like I said, I haven't worn myself out on it.

I just hope they get back to regular monthly releases.

People churn always occurs especially in today's quick fix society.

2 hours ago, Matrim said:

today's quick fix society.

Hitting the nail on the head. It's just people are impatient, or they get their fill quick and then move to something else.

Folks are getting so used to have as much content as they can have, binging shows and all and the game is really pleasant, so they want to get their fix , they go online and burn themselves on Jigoku...

Probably many folks selling their environment (3 cores + expansions) were actually binge buying too, spending a lot too fast on an anyway cool game that they ended up realizing needs commitment. So now that there is a downtime in buyables, they lose interest.

23 hours ago, SolidusPrime said:

Same in our area. Easily.

In my area crane and scorpion are the strongest clans, statistics wise. Crab and unicorn the weakest.

If things are getting stale for you I recommend doing a game night with some deck building restrictions if your groups more casual and just looking for over the top fun do stuff like let them splash from multiple clans. Since this is a long lull between releases and if no one is preping for a Kotei go wild and goofy to break people out of their rut. Thats just my suggestion. Locally we have been lucky the LCG night meet up is now meeting in a game store rather than a coffee shop some we have been able to pull in a few new players so its been a lot of learn to play nights lately. It has been nice to play goofy less optimized "fun" decks and take a break from the competitive reps

My gaming group also lost its interest pretty fast. It's not because of the need of new dynasty packs or a faster release schedule - I mean, I had months of fun with only the core set of Netrunner for example. It's because of its gameplay. Many of us jumped the ship due to heavy imbalances and some (that includes me) because of the whole cancel-mechanism. Cancelling effects and events are the heart of the game it seems. That's a deal breaker for me and therefor I sold my whole collection after the first cycle. I wanted to love L5R but in the end I returned to Netrunner revised and Arkham.

This is very normal! Peoples drops out and get in all the time. The problem arises when there Are so Many packs out that new player can not get in the game anymore without huge bank account...

Fast rotation help in there, but this game needs larger card pool than some other Lcg so the sweet point is not just yet.

i have played Many lcg games and I think that two to three cycles is needed to really open some deckbuilding. Definily looking for what this game looks like in 2021!

but don`t worry if your playing croup stops playing. There Are other good games around and maybe some of your friends comes back after one or two cycles. But most propably not all of them. L5R is moderniced old time beast and not suitable to all.

That's a deal breaker for me and therefor I sold my whole collection after the first cycle. I wanted to love L5R but in the end I returned to Netrunner revised and Arkham.

and yet you still visit the L5R forums to share your wisdom?

Seems a waste of a life.

Interest is waning here but it never made a huge splash compared to the surrounding stores. The issue is that my FLGS is now reluctant to order in product. Why get more L5R stock when he has 7 core sets sitting on the shelf now?

I think they should have dumped the OP kits right after the 6 in 6. That would have helped cover the lull and still given people a break from purchases after the flurry of expense that was the 6 in 6 distribution. We still get around 4 to 6 people playing in our local store with pockets of players in other stores in other parts of the state. If there were tournaments and promos to hunt we'd get more people travelling to attend events.

I think they definitely needed to do the 6 in 6 because the core only pool was going to get stale fast. Also they needed a lull to stop this game from being way too expensive right at launch. That said it definitely feels like now that we are in the lull there needed to be something here to tent pole the game until the next release.

As to the topic of game balance, the only faction I play where I feel I don't have a chance being competitive is Unicorn right now. Scorpion, Dragon and Crab all feel pretty powerful with Phoenix, Crane and Lion sitting at the second tier. Maybe you can't play each clan the way you want, but if you play the clan's strong decks I feel this game is in a good place competitively. Much better than Conquest or Netrunner at this same point in those game's lives.

Orlando had the privilege of getting Brad, the game's lead developer to come to our shop and discuss L5R. I addressed as many issues within the game as possible in regards to balance, themes etc.. While he certainly knows whats happening and that their are fixes to most concerns on the horizon (When discussing Unicorn he said "Oh sweet summer child, if you only knew" which drew big laughs.) I couldn't help but shake that this game may fall victim to many of the issues that previously exist in other FFG games. Which is what I believe is causing people to lose faith in the product so quickly. The hallmarks of balance issues already exist. Cards are printed with almost zero regard to their actual effect on the meta besides "this will make a big splash" which came to light when discussing the card 'Charge'. Ultimately his arguments boiled down to "wait and see" due to such a small card pool.

Now I could probably write a book on how thin the "small card pool/ Wait and see" argument is but I'll spare you my further ramblings and just say this: I was going to quit this game but opted not to. His counter points to my arguments, while not perfect, were worth the proverbial "second chance". Though I did walk out of the tournament held in his honor because the current meta is really boring (he had left anyways so the Q&A was over).

Counterspell has existed for a long time, and will continue to exist into the foreseeable future.
I don't see how "counter mechanics" are responsible for anyone quitting the game. "We both lose a card from hand, but otherwise nothing happens," is hardly game breaking stuff.

Not sure I buy the argument about there being too big a gap between new cards as a reason to quit at this stage. I mean, everyone knows that the first clan pack is coming out next month (maybe even sooner), and that this will then be followed by another cycle and so on. I can see why people might think the meta has gone stale, but if i felt that (which personally i don’t) then i’d probably be filling the time some other way until the new cards were released rather than selling up. But each to their own.

However, the two main concerns I have about the game are (1) the online gaming aspect and (2) the OP structure. So:

1) Again this is down to individual preference, and I know people get a lot of fun out of playing Jigoku or whatever. But ultimately it’s a physical card game designed to be played face-to-face in-person with a fellow human being. Maybe you’ll have one or two gaming nights each week where you play 2-3 games (maybe more if you play on a weekend), and maybe you’ll ramp it up before a major tourney. But my regular gaming buddy reckons he’s getting in at least a couple of games online pretty much every night. Then there was another poster on this forum from the UK whose posts I used to enjoy reading and who was there at the start for the inaugural London5R event who announced in the New Year that the game was dead to him... and when I read further it looked like he’d been playing L5R on Jigoku solidly every day over the whole Christmas & New Year period. It’s small wonder that some people are losing interest in of the game so quickly!

2) I appreciate this won’t impact on those players who don’t tend to go OP tourneys anyway, but the OP scene (outside of Koteis) seems to be struggling to take off over here - which I think has a lot to do with the delays and confusion over the Stronghold kits, but is also perhaps a symptom of the different OP set up for L5R compared to FFGs traditional model. With Conquest or Thrones you’d be having the Store Championships [SCs] right now, so for someone like me living in South East England on pretty much every weekend between late Jan and the start of April there’d be a local game stores somewhere in the capital or Home Counties holding their SC (i’d usually only make one or two at most, but there’d be a circuit of players doing the rounds and swelling the numbers at every such event - at my last Conquest SC at my local store we were graced with the presence of the eventual runner-up at Worlds). Then there’d be approx 4-5 Regionals across the UK through the summer (so most of us would make one maybe two), and then the UK Nationals to top it off at the end of the summer (and then Worlds for those fortunate enough to be able to make it across the Atlantic). Plus there’d be Nationals in France, Germany, Belgium, Greece, Hungary, Czech Republic etc etc.... all happening around a similar time, none of which i’d go to of course, but it was fun to watch the results coming in on the regular forums, making the game feel so alive.

By contrast the OP structure for L5R just doesn’t seem to be generating the same buzz, especially the Stronghold kits - which seem more like glorified Game Night Kits with their ‘4 rounds of Swiss and no top-cut’ structure. Last time I checked there was only one store in the capital advertising their Stronghold schedule, and seemingly precious little else in the wider South East region.

I’m sticking with the game as I absolutely love it, and recognise that it is still very much in its nascent stages. But I just hope the excitement we saw back at launch can be maintained in the long-term.

25 minutes ago, Caldera said:

Not sure I buy the argument about there being too big a gap between new cards as a reason to quit at this stage. I mean, everyone knows that the first clan pack is coming out next month (maybe even sooner), and that this will then be followed by another cycle and so on. I can see why people might think the meta has gone stale, but if i felt that (which personally i don’t) then i’d probably be filling the time some other way until the new cards were released rather than selling up. But each to their own.

However, the two main concerns I have about the game are (1) the online gaming aspect and (2) the OP structure. So:

1) Again this is down to individual preference, and I know people get a lot of fun out of playing Jigoku or whatever. But ultimately it’s a physical card game designed to be played face-to-face in-person with a fellow human being. Maybe you’ll have one or two gaming nights each week where you play 2-3 games (maybe more if you play on a weekend), and maybe you’ll ramp it up before a major tourney. But my regular gaming buddy reckons he’s getting in at least a couple of games online pretty much every night. Then there was another poster on this forum from the UK whose posts I used to enjoy reading and who was there at the start for the inaugural London5R event who announced in the New Year that the game was dead to him... and when I read further it looked like he’d been playing L5R on Jigoku solidly every day over the whole Christmas & New Year period. It’s small wonder that some people are losing interest in of the game so quickly!

2) I appreciate this won’t impact on those players who don’t tend to go OP tourneys anyway, but the OP scene (outside of Koteis) seems to be struggling to take off over here - which I think has a lot to do with the delays and confusion over the Stronghold kits, but is also perhaps a symptom of the different OP set up for L5R compared to FFGs traditional model. With Conquest or Thrones you’d be having the Store Championships [SCs] right now, so for someone like me living in South East England on pretty much every weekend between late Jan and the start of April there’d be a local game stores somewhere in the capital or Home Counties holding their SC (i’d usually only make one or two at most, but there’d be a circuit of players doing the rounds and swelling the numbers at every such event - at my last Conquest SC at my local store we were graced with the presence of the eventual runner-up at Worlds). Then there’d be approx 4-5 Regionals across the UK through the summer (so most of us would make one maybe two), and then the UK Nationals to top it off at the end of the summer (and then Worlds for those fortunate enough to be able to make it across the Atlantic). Plus there’d be Nationals in France, Germany, Belgium, Greece, Hungary, Czech Republic etc etc.... all happening around a similar time, none of which i’d go to of course, but it was fun to watch the results coming in on the regular forums, making the game feel so alive.

By contrast the OP structure for L5R just doesn’t seem to be generating the same buzz, especially the Stronghold kits - which seem more like glorified Game Night Kits with their ‘4 rounds of Swiss and no top-cut’ structure. Last time I checked there was only one store in the capital advertising their Stronghold schedule, and seemingly precious little else in the wider South East region.

I’m sticking with the game as I absolutely love it, and recognise that it is still very much in its nascent stages. But I just hope the excitement we saw back at launch can be maintained in the long-term.

1) I personally think that the online gaming is the only thing that keeps the game interesting for our playgroup. We played every week but without new releases and tournaments nobody feels the need to bring the cards. AGoT tournaments are right around the corner, the metagame is more balanced and the information policy generated interest in the Martell Box and the shadow mechanic from the next cycle. I like L5R more than AGoT, but still I got to play only on 2 game nights (5 games) the last 45 days.

2) The prices at the Special Event (Stronghold Showdown) look comparable to the prices from a Store Championship, but instead of a nice looking plaque you get a honor dial. The stuff for the dynasty league seems like a serious upgrade to the quartal kits. The Battle for the Stronghold isn't comparable to anything (probably to one quartal kit, but with more resell value). The Launch kit from the Phoenix expansion seems to be half a Store Championship. The Koteis are comparable to Nationals.

It's really hard to compare the things, because we don't know how often we will get launch or special Events. If we get a launch event ~half a year and every year a special event, things look pretty good supported, especially if you consider that there are fewer regionals than other events.

The only thing that I don't like is the lack of trophys at local tournaments.

I haven’t been able to find more than one opponent in over a month now at three different stores game nights. I’m afraid the game is dead now. Local tournament on Saturday scheduled if the turnout is disappointing I think I’m giving up on the game.

Nothing sadder than than a grown man sitting alone in a game store waiting for over an hour for someone show up and then going home when no one does come out.

FFG screwed the pooch. Their actions are completely why this game is dead/dying. 6in6 then literally nothing for months. If you have no plan to support the game post launch you do 6 in 6 to force fast sales then you do what they did and do nothing with op or their product for months.

Or you could play online and always find an opponent. Try the Discord league for high quality opposition and their is also a more casual discord server for players who are perhaps not so competitive.

Nothing sadder than than a grown man sitting alone in a game store waiting for over an hour for someone show up and then going home when no one does come out.

1st world problem. I can think of lots of sadder things but if that's the worse that you can conceive off then lucky you.

Your assumption as to why the break occurs is also conjecture. More likely is that most FFG have noted (and commented before) games suffer a lull in interest due to lack of card variety after the core set release so they decided to capitalise on interest and increase the available card pool to counteract this. Unfortunately the lull still occurred but just later.

That does not mean the game is dead or dying or they have no plan to support the game post launch.

If anything I think the staff at FFG have too many balls in the air Hanlon's Razor says 'Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.' and though I would not go far as stupidity I think they failed to plan and did not realise quite how rabid the fan base was.

6 minutes ago, Matrim said:

I think they failed to plan and did not realise quite how rabid the fan base was.

They had to have had some idea. At least one of the lead designers had played as recently as Celestial.

8 hours ago, maniacmcgoo said:

Nothing sadder than than a grown man sitting alone in a game store waiting for over an hour for someone show up and then going home when no one does come out.

You wimp. You wouldn't have lasted a month into Ivory edition.

14 hours ago, Kakita Shiro said:

They had to have had some idea. At least one of the lead designers had played as recently as Celestial.

And with reasonable sucesses. Anyway maybe he just knew too much and told too much so he's first L5R designer that left FFG.

6 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:

You wimp. You wouldn't have lasted a month into Ivory edition.

Was Ivory Edition a brand new shining game from one of the biggest and well known analog card games developer in the world?

1 hour ago, kempy said:

Was Ivory Edition a brand new shining game from one of the biggest and well known analog games developer in the world?

No, it was the latest iteration of one of the two longest running CCGs in the world. And despite that they managed to squander their success to the point that they ended up selling off their flagship IP.

44 minutes ago, shineyorkboy said:

No, it was the latest iteration of one of the two longest running CCGs in the world. And despite that they managed to squander their success to the point that they ended up selling off their flagship IP.

Which case is therefore more pathetic?

And I'm pretty sure L5R stopped being AEG's flagship few years before sell happened.

9 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:

You wimp. You wouldn't have lasted a month into Ivory edition.

I played Ivory for about 6 months before my playgroup called it quits. I never had to wait an hour without anyone there. I had to wait because we would sometimes have an odd number of players and well, Ivory was slooow.

On 3/3/2018 at 2:11 AM, kempy said:

And with reasonable sucesses. Anyway maybe he just knew too much and told too much so he's first L5R designer that left FFG.

What exactly did Dahlman tell us that FFG didn't want us to know?

I don't seem to recall anything spicy being spoiled when it wasn't supposed to.

Now maybe he didn't like the direction that the game was going to go, but, that's pure speculation and even if it were true, who cares? We don't know what Dahlman's vision of the game was, and if we even would have agreed with it. For all we know he could have been upset that they didn't use his "good side" when picking his vanity photo for Kenzin.

If there is any concern that the person that has the most prior L5R experience is off the design team is somehow going to impact future design negatively, I wouldn't be too concerned. They don't need any old mechanics since the game is so different. And if they need any insight from the old game they still have Horvath who was in and around L5R since the very beginning.

For the right price I could be convinced to move my family to Minnesota and fill that last design spot. I'm just warning you all now that I'm gonna be like Oprah when it comes to the Shadowlands taint.....

"You get an Oni, and you get an Oni.......everyone gets an Oni!!!!!"