Could you not use Brass Knuckles? I know it’s technically a weapon but it’s already considered acceptable for use with brawl rather than Melee so there is an allowance for it already built in.

15 minutes ago, Khazadune said:

Could you not use Brass Knuckles? I know it’s technically a weapon but it’s already considered acceptable for use with brawl rather than Melee so there is an allowance for it already built in.

No unlike the improved and standard versions of the talent it is specifically worded such that brawl weapons are not included. The only way to get better than standard brawn damage and edit ( base ) 5 crit is to go a race that increases damage and lowers crit rating, ie Trandoshan, Green Nikto, and Whiphid

11 hours ago, Darzil said:

Fortunately this many ninjas isn't scary, due to inverse ninja law.

Until of-course you get that ONE GM/Director that feels instead subverting expectations.

10 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

With the express caveat that if it was deemed too broken by the GM, he was well within his rights to disallow it.

I think you've demonstrated how broken it can get quite easily It's literally an "I Win" button that costs a single Advantage and a bit of strain.

There is another way to make Martial artist kind of terrifying.

It's costly, and at a glance it doesn't seem like much, but pairing it with the Colonist: Doctor spec. Why? Because you can get Ranks for Resolve (It's just nice to have), Pressure Point (IMPORTANT!), Anatomy Lessons (Not as important, but still very very handy), and Dodge (It's always nice).

As stated earlier, it is costly however. But, when it works. Hooo boy! You are gonna be straining the daylights outta people.

4 minutes ago, ExileofEnya said:

It's costly, and at a glance it doesn't seem like much, but pairing it with the Colonist: Doctor spec. Why? Because you can get Ranks for Resolve (It's just nice to have), Pressure Point (IMPORTANT!), Anatomy Lessons (Not as important, but still very very handy), and Dodge (It's always nice).

Yes, that would make the Trando Martial Artist nigh unstoppable. No soak to get through means all you need is 1 Success & 1 Advantage on any check to control the heck out of any rival or nemesis you hit.

27 minutes ago, ExileofEnya said:

There is another way to make Martial artist kind of terrifying.

It's costly, and at a glance it doesn't seem like much, but pairing it with the Colonist: Doctor spec. Why? Because you can get Ranks for Resolve (It's just nice to have), Pressure Point (IMPORTANT!), Anatomy Lessons (Not as important, but still very very handy), and Dodge (It's always nice).

As stated earlier, it is costly however. But, when it works. Hooo boy! You are gonna be straining the daylights outta people.

What if you started as a doctor to get the Unmatched Expertise Signature ability?

1 hour ago, awayputurwpn said:

Yes, that would make the Trando Martial Artist nigh unstoppable. No soak to get through means all you need is 1 Success & 1 Advantage on any check to control the heck out of any rival or nemesis you hit.

How about the bounty hunter with deadly accuracy and their signature ability, doable for a lot less XP. Ive demonstrated previously how to make a 3 spec build with Brawl 5, Streetwise 5 ,Coordination 5 that can not only hit for around 20 damage on 1 success , but is able to duplicate the check in the same round.

Each of these characters requires a lot of expenditure in skills and specializations, and quite often are one trick ponies ,which is not the best way to build a character in this game. With the same xp I can usually build a stupidly insane ranged combat character, or a force skiooed player that can trigger protect and has an effective soak of about 20 or more depending on their disicplie check for Protect ,

An Armourer/Protector for example can get up to 3 defense base and 12+ soak with a fraction of the above xp add in soresu and you can reflect and parry 8 damage and have max defense quite easily.

If you want cheese , then there are plenty of varieties out there. From the three times per round Scathing Tirader, to one punch man , etc In combat the martial artist is IMO one of the least effective of these if you want to abuse the system.

Supreme PS, is the least of these as it can only be used in one hit in one attack once in a game, and likely has a fraction of the damage of the bounty hunter signature ability that lets you draw and use different weapons until you run out of weapons , note that the latter still can add the 1 advantage autofire to the mix.

If you ask me Improved Precision strike is more powerful as it is at least spammable although even then its once per round (which at least prevents you from spamming a second attack with each hit with the same dice pool)

The once per session restriction prevents a lot of abuse , of course , unless your GM throws one BBEG at you per session , and you happen to know which one is the biggest danger, even then, this is far from an I win button.

With just normal precision strike you can take someone out of the fight by spam stagger and grappling them using Precision Strike.

Also just to point out some chances here , a 5 yellow 1 green pool vs a nemesis 3 opponent with no setback still only has approx a 75% chance of rolling at least 1 advantage , or 35% chance of at least 1 triumph, hardly a guarantee, or if you happen to not be one of the magical three races the chance of 3/advantage drops to 40%.

FWIW having a modded vibroaxe with as much vicious and lethality you can get and using your advantage and triumphs to add multiple +10 to the crit roll is way cheaper in xp cost to get a one hit wonder that can practically guarantee the same result MINIMUM per critical hit rolled in melee without the use of a special talent, or any ranged character with disruptor gets a minimum result of 100 on every crit roll.

Do these non-weapon talents work with cyber hands/arms?

1 hour ago, RLogue177 said:

Do these non-weapon talents work with cyber hands/arms?

Like repulsor fists? Those are weapons.

If a cybernetic attachment simply added something to Brawl checks, then it would work, but if it says anything about being a "Brawl weapon," then (just like brass knuckles and vamblades) no, it doesn't work.

2 hours ago, syrath said:

Also just to point out some chances here , a 5 yellow 1 green pool vs a nemesis 3 opponent with no setback still only has approx a 75% chance of rolling at least 1 advantage , or 35% chance of at least 1 triumph, hardly a guarantee, or if you happen to not be one of the magical three races the chance of 3/advantage drops to 40%.

@syrath you should build a character to challenge "The Bulk" in 1v1 combat

And yeah, it's never a guarantee, but you're still more likely than not to Succeed with Advantage on each check. And my point was that the amount of control you can exercise with a single Brawl check is crazy. You can basically hit, and then run your finger down the crit list and go "that one." And that is powerful .

You can of course build stronger hitting PCs (or just grab a couple shaped thermal detonators, give yourself a few ranks in Ranged [Light], and make mincemeat out of anyone!). I'm just staggered (pun intended) by the flexibility of the Martial Artist's options. He can basically do anything short of automatically killing someone with one blow, before any Signature Abilities come into play.

2 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

Like repulsor fists? Those are weapons.

If a cybernetic attachment simply added something to Brawl checks, then it would work, but if it says anything about being a "Brawl weapon," then (just like brass knuckles and vamblades) no, it doesn't work.

Here's a fun thing, if I'm distilling all the information correctly. In the description for repulsor fist in LNH, the last bit says that you can still make Brawl attacks without using the repulsor fist's benefits (like when it's recharging), and it is simply considered an unarmed attack. So, for the two rounds the fist is recharging, or for any attack that you didn't want to use the fist's abilities anyway, you can benefit from Iron Body and Supreme Precision Strike.

42 minutes ago, RLogue177 said:

Here's a fun thing, if I'm distilling all the information correctly. In the description for repulsor fist in LNH, the last bit says that you can still make Brawl attacks without using the repulsor fist's benefits (like when it's recharging), and it is simply considered an unarmed attack. So, for the two rounds the fist is recharging, or for any attack that you didn't want to use the fist's abilities anyway, you can benefit from Iron Body and Supreme Precision Strike.

And you can always punch with your other hand or kick them

2 hours ago, RLogue177 said:

So, for the two rounds the fist is recharging, or for any attack that you didn't want to use the fist's abilities anyway, you can benefit from Iron Body and Supreme Precision Strike.

Right—it doesn't stop you from making regular "unarmed" Brawl attacks.

If you had some sort of enhancement that said, "all of your Brawl attacks are considered to be made with this cybernetic weapon" then I suppose it'd be a different story

Ok so how many unarmed brawl attacks can you make in 1 turn, I’d go with 2?

7 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

@syrath you should build a character to challenge "The Bulk" in 1v1 combat

And yeah, it's never a guarantee, but you're still more likely than not to Succeed with Advantage on each check. And my point was that the amount of control you can exercise with a single Brawl check is crazy. You can basically hit, and then run your finger down the crit list and go "that one." And that is powerful .

You can of course build stronger hitting PCs (or just grab a couple shaped thermal detonators, give yourself a few ranks in Ranged [Light], and make mincemeat out of anyone!). I'm just staggered (pun intended) by the flexibility of the Martial Artist's options. He can basically do anything short of automatically killing someone with one blow, before any Signature Abilities come into play.

One of the factors involved with Brawl is range , against a sniper a brawler has a few turns to fet from extreme to engaged , even then thst is assume thr sniper is stationary, and can be found easily, or even reached (elevation is a factor), and being able to look through the crit list is a boon , even for a character with just precision strike. I would even tend to agree that there are a few too many ways to boost brawl damage in comparison with the rest, but its even easier to build a melee character who can have +100 on their crit rolls meaning that when they roll 1 advantage they get death on 40+, 2, death on 30+ etc ,

A sniper with a disruptor rifle is going to make mince meat of any brawler before they even get close with similar xp.

My point is that it is easier to make broken in this system especially if you are building for 1v1 pvp combat, which I think Ive had once in 2 years of me playing SW RPG.

FWIW its quit possible to beat a combat character with a simple social character, theee is the ability that prevents you from being targetted by a combat check unless you attack, then the person can tirade you until you cant respond. Not everyone has earplug on their list (the point of that comment is that is building for 1v1 pvp as well, still gets me no where in much of the game, SPS is a once per session ability in a game where you play multiple encounters, a GM can easily build round it by factoring in a fight against multiple nemesis)