So back in Wave 5 the main problem with the cloak is it was super repositioning. You used it to reposition in an attack and with advanced cloak you had the ability to attack and cloak at the same turn, you were able to ignore the disadvantage of the cloaking device and that was the lack of firepower when going in defensive mode. Still when cloaked there is no advantage other than the +2 agility. So it doesn't feel like defensive or hidden movement anymore. So I have this idea.

At the Start of the Combat Phase all ships with a cloak token may perform a 1 straight maneuver or a free barrel-roll action as long as the base and template does not overlap a ship or obstacle.

So the idea is to have movement at the start of the combat phase that is less than the decloak action just to add in some hidden movement element. Since it is at the start of combat the ship would not be attacking so it makes sense to have a little more defensive capability. Also with Advanced Cloaking device which cloaks in the middle of the combat phase they will not have this ability unless they would not have this ability.

So what do you think, good, bad, the Mist Hunter sucks, All TIE Phantoms must die? Leave a comment below.

A lot has happened in the game since the decloak errata.

I personally think it would be very interesting to see what would get pushed out of the meta if it was undone. And what would come back in due to other things getting pushed out.

With all the releases since then I don't see Whisper being the problem she used to be, and I reckon it would do more good than harm to the game to go back to the original version.

It'd be a shame if the cloaking change were undone. The "new" cloaking mechanic is much more thematic and mechanically interesting than the old. The TIE phantom used to be an interceptor on steroids. Now it's one of the game's only non-reactive repositioners.

1 hour ago, Firespray-32 said:

It'd be a shame if the cloaking change were undone. The "new" cloaking mechanic is much more thematic and mechanically interesting than the old. The TIE phantom used to be an interceptor on steroids. Now it's one of the game's only non-reactive repositioners.

That's a cool way to look at it.

Sadly, it does seem they've killed the chassis, however.

OTOH, what if FFG revisited the TIE Phantom with the new mechanic in mind, and actually introduced the Stealth X. If they designed pilots with the new mechanic in mind, the ship(s) might see more table time.

I would propose a separate cloak dial you could change during the start of the planning phase, and you could choose what phase you decloak. But you have to move according to the cloaking dial.

And an easy fix buff

Also add a 3rd dice to the cloak. With the Red Dice creep, I am surprised this has not happened yet.

I think the new dial idea has merit. If when you take the action you set your cloak dial. Now this dial can have all sorts of movements, including a zero speed and reverse.

When you declare an attack on a cloaked target, declare a maneuver, then execute the maneuver in the dial. If successful, and still a valid target, make the attack. If you guessed wrong, the ship executes its maneuver and the targetinng ship loses its attack.

Now a bit of refinement is needed but it makes it a gamble.

Want to fix cloaking? Make Stygium Particle Accelerator a title and make it free.

The only things keeping Whisper out of the meta are TLTs (since she doesn't use Autothrusters) and the PS 10-11 wars. Kylo Silencer suffers from the PS wars but at least has AT and enough health to weather high pilot skill turrets. I'm going to be really interested to see how the TIE Reaper affects the Imperial meta. Krennic is clearly an ace buff and the ship itself offers more points to use on your aces in a palp-aces list.

20 hours ago, Celestial Lizards said:

Want to fix cloaking? Make Stygium Particle Accelerator a title and make it free.

There was a reason it was kept as a modification, so it doesn't get pared with ACD. Also that kills the scum cloaking device. Granted it doesn't use it that much (I still like Cloaked Talonbane) I was thinking of ways to get more of the hidden movement aspect back into cloaking since the nerf sort of taken that away. Granted decloaking wasn't really hidden movement, and we now hat the likes of TIE Silencer with ACD and PTL it works almost just like the pre-nerf cloak.

9 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

There was a reason it was kept as a modification, so it doesn't get pared with ACD. Also that kills the scum cloaking device. Granted it doesn't use it that much (I still like Cloaked Talonbane) I was thinking of ways to get more of the hidden movement aspect back into cloaking since the nerf sort of taken that away. Granted decloaking wasn't really hidden movement, and we now hat the likes of TIE Silencer with ACD and PTL it works almost just like the pre-nerf cloak.

Cloaked TB is so much fun.

He's still TB though.

Whisper is still lots of fun, but the current meta with it's defensive mods, high health and TLT just makes her meh...not worth her points. I'd say make ACD 1 point and make SPA a TIE Phantom Only Title at 1 point.....then she might hold up with the current bad as**s.

Theres very little wrong with cloak

The problem is a.) ADV Cloaking being ps dependent due to its trigger b.) Turrets are bull and invalidate all your manuevering shenanigans no matter how neat

Personally I'd just completely remove the "weapons' disabled" effect and agility buff due to Cloaking (green dice don't do **** anyway), adjust the TIE Phantom accordingly and tweak point costs as needed. Then you'll at least remove the ps dependency and have a much more flexible Phantom

even if it went back to its original broken form ps 11 repositioning would still kill it, as well as all the fat turrets and TLT ghosts.

But please don't return us to the dark times, before Poe Dameron.

8 hours ago, AngryAlbatross said:

even if it went back to its original broken form ps 11 repositioning would still kill it, as well as all the fat turrets and TLT ghosts.

But please don't return us to the dark times, before Poe Dameron.

Some might say that is when the Dark Times began.

But anyways this idea is not to remove the nerf but bring cloak back in a way that is more defensive not as a repoisstioning attack but simply reposistioning while remaining in defensive mode.

On 2/18/2018 at 8:36 PM, Darth Meanie said:

That's a cool way to look at it.

Sadly, it does seem they've killed the chassis, however.

OTOH, what if FFG revisited the TIE Phantom with the new mechanic in mind, and actually introduced the Stealth X. If they designed pilots with the new mechanic in mind, the ship(s) might see more table time.

The problem isn't the 'planned repositioning' - good phantom players had to combine the cloak and dial move anyway, so it wasn't too big a deal.

The issue with the Phantom is it's modification(s): Advanced Cloaking Device is awesome, but it just makes the ship a slave to the Pilot Skill wars; the difference between Whisper shooting first and shooting second is a target with 2 extra green dice and a focus token - which in turn means that no phantom which isn't Veteran Instincts Whisper ever gets serious traction.

It's also the case for the fact that you get a decloak every turn - which is vitally important to keep the ship dancing in the way an arc dodger needs to, which means that even if Stygium Particle Accelerator provided the same defense boost, you'd still want ACD for repositioning.

I'm not sure how to fix it, really. Letting a phantom pack multiple modifications (or chop and change them mid-game) might help - a generic phantom with Stygium and Lightweight Frame, for example, gets 3 green dice, focus and evade when decloaking, making it within a hair as tough as a TIE/x7 defender for about the same price.

It sounds stupid, but I'd very much like a Lego Star Wars expansion. There are quite a few ships and characters in there (especially in the Freemaker Chronicles) who'd provide useful 'patches'

• Jek-14's stealth starfighter is a an E-wing, but the 'top gun' is actually a swivel-mounted turret. Firstly this goes a long way to explaining how you get out of the bloody cockpit, but giving an E-wing a limited ability to fire outside its arc (either with a portion of its dice, or at range 1 only, or something) would be an interesting mechanic.
  • Encouraging an E-wing to engage in a prolonged close-quarter brawl also provides a boost which hopefully helps improve other E-wings relative to Corran Horn (although any boost to the E-wing helps him), because he wants to hit-and-run.
  • If, rather than "you may fire outside your arc of fire" it's "you may treat ships at range 1 as being inside your arc of fire" it specifically benefits Etann A'Baht
• Tracer One is a TIE Phantom.
  • M-OC is a droid obsessed with customizing both his ship and himself. That makes me imagine an Azmordigan/Vizago-esque pilot ability but with modifications....

On 2/19/2018 at 1:48 PM, clanofwolves said:

Whisper is still lots of fun, but the current meta with it's defensive mods, high health and TLT just makes her meh...not worth her points. I'd say make ACD 1 point and make SPA a TIE Phantom Only Title at 1 point.....then she might hold up with the current bad as**s.

...

No no no...

First of all Adv Cloak is already TIE only upgrade. SPA is the only cloaking modification that scum can use. Scum already doesn't use it much because cloaking is temperamental and there is no double crew ship to put jabba on for the more reliable cloak. If there was a way to get an illicit token on the scum cloak that would help but then again they might jsut use it for more glitterstim.

I still say put in the move at the start of the combat phase if still have the cloaking device. Could also help against TLTs being ale to move into the range 1 out of arc hole or such. With the weapons disabled it isn't too bad of a thing as it won't be firing so nothing too far different from the stolen tie modification.

PS wars are what Hurt the Phantom, not the nerf. While I would love to reverse the nerf, good Phantom pilots adapted to it and moved forward. PS 11 scare phantom pilots to death, that and ps 10 nym with bombs.

TLT sort of hurts them as well but played correctly you should be able to get in the range bubble and stay there of most tlt carriers. Multiple tlt's that is different.

Whisper is my pilot, she's the most fun. Post-nerf I actually enjoyed the games more, it became less reactive and more predictive and from a fun-first standpoint, post-nerf is far superior.

I am sad that she's been completely pushed out of the meta. I've been working with a number of lists that use Krennic, but I'm not so sure that she's the best target for him. Though I'd totally be on the double Reaper Palp Krennic Whisper train if it works as a meta list.

Honestly, I wouldn't replace Stygium with a title, but rather have a title that says this:

Title - Phantom v2: -2 Points, TIE Phantom Only, You may equip two modifications.

You would also have to errata Stygium to say "Once Per Turn, When you either decloak or perform a cloak action, you may perform a free evade action."

Edit: NVM just remembered you couldn't perform the evade twice anyway.

I absolutely love Whisper, but the problem she isn't flexible with how she can be built, because she needs VI and ACD. also she is really pricy.

On 2/21/2018 at 5:52 AM, smccaughan said:

PS wars are what Hurt the Phantom, not the nerf. While I would love to reverse the nerf, good Phantom pilots adapted to it and moved forward. PS 11 scare phantom pilots to death, that and ps 10 nym with bombs.

TLT sort of hurts them as well but played correctly you should be able to get in the range bubble and stay there of most tlt carriers. Multiple tlt's that is different.

Even more so with having a start of combat phase reposistion for cloaked Phantoms. That way even a Sigma pilot could move out of the way and it won't be subject to the PS Wars like Sabine's TIE.

The only issue if the meta goes more into the tank cycle (which some might say it has with the Aztec Wookies) and nobody like a defensive play avoiding attack when the goal of the game is to eliminate your opponent. But this proposal would take care of the whole TIE Phantom PS needed issue.

On 2/20/2018 at 10:52 PM, Marinealver said:

No no no...

First of all Adv Cloak is already TIE only title Modification. SPA is the only cloaking modification that scum can use. Scum already doesn't use it much because cloaking is temperamental and there is no double crew ship to put jabba on for the more reliable cloak. If there was a way to get an illicit token on the scum cloak that would help but then again they might jsut use it for more glitterstim.

I still say put in the move at the start of the combat phase if still have the cloaking device. Could also help against TLTs being ale to move into the range 1 out of arc hole or such. With the weapons disabled it isn't too bad of a thing as it won't be firing so nothing too far different from the stolen tie modification.

Adv Cloak is a TIE-Phantom only modification, not a title.

Jabba applies his ability to all ships in his squad (I had to look it up, because I once thought he was worthless except in epic, and had a long rant prepared.)

On 2/22/2018 at 12:14 PM, Yakostovian said:

Adv Cloak is a TIE-Phantom only modification, not a title.

Jabba applies his ability to all ships in his squad (I had to look it up, because I once thought he was worthless except in epic, and had a long rant prepared.)

Jabba still is pretty worthless because the only shp avalible in standard currently is the YV-666. And taking up 2 slots just doesn't fit the party buss. Jabba is a real partypooper.

8 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Jabba still is pretty worthless because the only shp avalible in standard currently is the YV-666. And taking up 2 slots just doesn't fit the party buss. Jabba is a real partypooper.

It’s ok, the Sheathapede Scum expansion will be 2 crew, minus the mech slot.