Piercing strike final points

By toriano, in Runewars Rules Questions

If you discarded the upgrade card "piercing strike" due its use, you get its points in final scoring in the survival unit?

No, you don't. Same way with Ambush Predator.

2 hours ago, Athelin said:

No, you don't. Same way with Ambush Predator.

I'm not sure that's accurate. From the tournament rules:

"A player’s score helps determine who won the game in certain circumstances and is used to calculate Margin of Victory (see “Margin of Victory” on page 17). Each player calculates their score by adding together the total army point value of their opponent remaining units—including upgrade cards equipped to those units—and subtracting that number from their opponent’s army’s total army point value, then adding the result to any additional points earned through objectives."

It was explained to me that "upgrade cards equipped to those units" refers to your original army list. If a unit survives the battle, any upgrade cards that were originally equipped to that unit are still counted, even if that upgrade is discarded.

Personally, I think it's ridiculous that self-discarding cards would lose you points in the game. Having a one-time effect is punishment enough, but if you lost points for using it, too, that would be absurd. I wish they would right these kinds of cards as "once per game, do X" instead of instructing you to discard the card. Discarding is fine for friendly games, but in a tournament where points matter, that should never appear as a condition to do an effect on a card. Again, this is just opinion.

It's probably worth mentioning that early in X-wing organized play, discarding a secondary weapon card, like a Proton Torpedoes card, meant you lost those points during the game, but they changed that ruling pretty quickly.

I do hope that Mistlands Saboteur and Executioner can get you points for taking out figures and other upgrade cards on opposing units. Right now that doesn't seem very clear to me.

10 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

I'm not sure that's accurate. From the tournament rules:

"A player’s score helps determine who won the game in certain circumstances and is used to calculate Margin of Victory (see “Margin of Victory” on page 17). Each player calculates their score by adding together the total army point value of their opponent remaining units—including upgrade cards equipped to those units—and subtracting that number from their opponent’s army’s total army point value, then adding the result to any additional points earned through objectives."

It was explained to me that "upgrade cards equipped to those units" refers to your original army list. If a unit survives the battle, any upgrade cards that were originally equipped to that unit are still counted, even if that upgrade is discarded.

Personally, I think it's ridiculous that self-discarding cards would lose you points in the game. Having a one-time effect is punishment enough, but if you lost points for using it, too, that would be absurd. I wish they would right these kinds of cards as "once per game, do X" instead of instructing you to discard the card. Discarding is fine for friendly games, but in a tournament where points matter, that should never appear as a condition to do an effect on a card. Again, this is just opinion.

From rules references:

70.3 To calculate the point value of his remaining army, each player adds up the point value of all units and upgrades in his army that were not destroyed or discarded throughout the game.

Edited by Athelin
2 hours ago, Athelin said:

From rules references:

70.3 To calculate the point value of his remaining army, each player adds up the point value of all units and upgrades in his army that were not destroyed or discarded throughout the game.

Right. That's true for casual games whete you win if you have more points remaining in your army than your opponent, but in tournament games, you score points for destroying enemy units rather thsn by preserving your own. I assumed the OP was asking about tournament rules. If they weren't, you are absolutely right. If they were, then I believe the current rules have you only score points for upgrades on enemy units that you destroyed.

[I really wish after all this time that FFG would make a game where the casual rules and tournament rules were identical.]

However, I dont get your point about the tournament rules. It just says upgrades equipped to your units, it doesn't clarify about upgrades discarded.

6 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

[I really wish after all this time that FFG would make a game where the casual rules and tournament rules were identical.]

Yup.

"When a player is instructed to discard an upgrade card, he or she flips it facedown. Facedown
upgrade cards are out of play, but remain equipped to their respective units. They do not count
toward a player’s score unless the unit to which they are equipped is destroyed."

Tournament rules III.3.a

14 minutes ago, flightmaster101 said:

"When a player is instructed to discard an upgrade card, he or she flips it facedown. Facedown
upgrade cards are out of play, but remain equipped to their respective units. They do not count
toward a player’s score unless the unit to which they are equipped is destroyed."

Tournament rules III.3.a

That's definetily a good point

On 19/2/2018 at 12:12 PM, Budgernaut said:

[I really wish after all this time that FFG would make a game where the casual rules and tournament rules were identical.]

Agreed. It makes absolutely NO sense to make them different!

Okay, so do you score points for shipping out figure upgrades in tournament games? My group had come to the consensus that the scar is no, but one for at the tournament said that he got points for shipping my Aggressive Drummer even though my Reanimates survived the battle.

RRG 33.7 38.7says "When a figure upgrade is destroyed, either through damage or other game effects, its upgrade card is discarded." According to tournament rules, that would mean your opponent wouldn't score points for it unless they destroyed the whole unit, right?

On the one hand, it seems silly to not get points for your efforts to destroy a figure upgrade. If you can't the damage, you should get the points. But then, sometimes you destroy multiple trays without earning points. Also, I kind of like the idea that sniping out figure upgrades becomes a tactical choice if you aren't immediately rewarded with points. Do I take out his Aggressive Drummer to deny him charges, or even though I don't score anything from it?

Sherry for highjacking the thread.

Edited by Parakitor

RRG Section 70.3:
To calculate the point value of his remaining army, each player
adds up the point value of all units and upgrades in his army
that were not destroyed or discarded throughout the game.

This was amended in Tournament rules III.3.a to say cards that instruct you to discard them are not counted towards your opponents score unless your opponent destroys the unit.

Also I cant find a 33.7 in the RRG. Section 33 has to do with Energy. Are you sure you're reading the RRG?

4 minutes ago, flightmaster101 said:

Also I cant find a 33.7 in the RRG. Section 33 has to do with Energy. Are you sure you're reading the RRG?

My bad. 38.7. The "38" looks like a "33" on a small phone when you're sick in bed.

Funny thing, I actually had one game that was lost by regular scoring rules but won by tournament rules. The other guy had 1 more point of units remaining on the table, so he won by casual scoring. But his army was 200 pts while mine was 198, so I killed 1 more point worth of units, so I won by tournament scoring :D

10 hours ago, unonameless said:

Funny thing, I actually had one game that was lost by regular scoring rules but won by tournament rules.

The fact that there are 2 sets of scoring rules irritates me to no end. For the league I run I use the tournament rules. I suspect there is such a big change in scoring policy becasue if you think about the "causal" scoring method it endorses and rewards turtleing.