Now that we've wrapped up a Corellian Conflict, I had an idea for a house rule for Vader. @Ardaedhel liked it, so I thought I'd bounce it off the forum.

"We'll Have To Destroy Them Ship To Ship"

If you are using Darth Vader as your commander, at the start of the Ship Phase you may discard the Darth Vader commander card to do one of the following:

• Place the Darth Vader upgrade card onto your Flagship. The Weapons Team and Offensive Retrofit slots must be empty to do this.
• Place the Darth Vader squadron at distance 1 of your Flagship. If Darth Vader is destroyed, he must be unscarred in the Management Phase. It is worth victory points as normal.

If you discard your Darth Vader commander card, you immediately lose the effects of that card. Destroying the Flagship still awards points for the Darth Vader commander card, even if the squadron was also destroyed. The Darth Vader upgrade card adds points to the Flagship equal to its value in addition to the value of the commander card. At the end of the game, discard the upgrade card or squadron and return the Darth Vader commander card to the Flagship.

Thoughts? Penalties too harsh?

I suppose if you allow Leia to do the same for the Rebels is wont unbalance things.

The opportunity cost is very steep IMO. Not having a weapons team or offensive retrofit is rough, but also losing your commander just to discard an upgrade is ridiculous. I think you'd be better off taking GT and Bulkheads to destroy enemy ships with your rerolls.

Perhaps allowing the swapping of Vader before a battle and getting a new commander in his stead?

Looks good to me. I can't imagine anyone swapping for the boarding team, but they just might need a fighter squadron at the last minute. Could help. I'd make it so that his commander points over the cost of what you swap to count against you no matter what. They should have to really need that squadron.

I would endorse this. I've always objected to players taking Vader for reasons other than Admiral, because if something happens to him players have lost a potential admiral choice if someone needs to reset.

How about allowing his squadron to board ships

I really like this. It allows you to use Vader in a very thematic manner. Something like this could be used for Leia as well, and also for possible future commanders like General Solo and General Syndulla, or a Lando Millennium Falcon .

Is the loss of the commander ability enough to allow for boarding Vader even if the slots are already filled, or would that be too powerful?

I could kind of see it either way. I don't really see anybody leaving the Weapons Team and Off Ret open specifically to enable this, but remember, this is CC: the flexibility to do this with a round-1, or post-retirement, or rebuilding fleet could be pretty strong.

Thing is, yeah I agree that if you do this, you're not going to see people bringing Vader as the squadron or boarding team... but how often do you get to use either of those in CC anyway?

That said, I agree that it is a pretty big opportunity cost for the boarding team. It would probably be a big enough hit to just drop the commander's ability for the duration of the round you're using the boarding team, since that's usually going to be a really critical turn of combat anyway.

What do you think about adding this text to commander Vader in CC:

Quote

When you reveal a command dial, you may place a "destroy them ship to ship" token on this card. If you do, you may gain another upgrade card with the same name or deploy a squadron with the same name at distance 1. While this card has a "destroy them ship to ship" token, replace its text with the following:

When you reveal a command dial, you may remove either a discarded upgrade or a squadron at distance 1 from the game if it has the same name as this card. If you do, you may remove the "destroy them ship to ship" token from this card.

It's kind of wordy and unedited, but basically this frees up the slots, or allows you to add his squadron above the 1/3 cap, but it denies you the use of your commander during the time you're using it. I think that's a pretty fair drawback, particularly since you're likely to want Admiral Vader's effect during the time that you most want to be using the boarding team and the squadron. Trades some throughput for situational flexibility.

How about allowing Vader to be added over and above the existing admiral?

eg for 45 points you may add Vader to your fleet. At the start of each turn you may decide how to use Vader,either as a commander (in addition to the fleet admiral), a sqn or boarding party. If you discard Vader as a boarding party you may not use Commander Vader or Sqn Vader for the rest of the game. If Sqn Vader must be in Range 1 of the ship he was assigned to at the start of the game to be returned to either commander or boarding party.

So in our CCs we don’t allow multiple Vader or Leia cards... however if the fleet is scrapped or the squadron or upgrade card is lost, we allow another version to enter the campaign.

In essence it’s hard to kill them.

I love the thematic idea of Vader handing over command of the fleet to a different Admiral while he goes off in his TIE Advanced swatting X-Wings and Y-Wings out of the sky.

"As a player with Darth Vader as your commander, you may purchase a Vader ship upgrade card and/or Vader as a squadron. If you do this, you must purchase Admiral Ozzel (20 points) as well.

At the beginning of any game, before fleets are deployed, you may choose which version of Vader you will use. If the Vader you select is not your commander, you must have Admiral Ozzel equipped to a ship you control. If the Vader you select is the commander, Admiral Ozzel is removed from the game."

So you are adding 41/44/23 points to a list that doesn't get used ....

if you are going to do that I think ozzel or the alt use Vader should be free should be free

Honestly just make it a free thing.

If you include vader as admiral you may at the start of each round choose which version of him you use. The ship he is equipped to at deployment is the flagship, when vader is not in admiral form his effect cannot be used. When deployed as a sqd he is deployed at distance 1 of the flagship set to unactivated.

If he is destroyed his point cost is always the cost of the vader admiral. If you destroy his sqdron you destroyed the admiral point cost.

If you change him from admiral to squadron. You can only change him back to an admiral or boarding team if you are within distance 1 of a friendly ship that is capable of holding him. (I.e. no admiral vader on a flot, ot BT vader on something that cant hold him)

My opinion only.